hoya
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A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:49 pm

Hello all,

Just read an article today from Crain's Chicago Business, which is about N176UA, a 747 being repossessed. On another thread, don't remember which one, I read that a 747 that was recently given back to lessors will be coming back to the fleet. Is it this 747, or has another 747 been repossessed?

Full article here: http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=17449
Hoya Saxa!!
 
bmacleod
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:26 pm

How unfortunate an event like this would have to take place. I hate to see the same thing happen to DL, like a 777 being repossessed, or does DL own all their 777s?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:54 pm

I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s. If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders. United's fleet is heavily mortgaged, so a repro here & there is not surprising. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
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litz
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s. If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders. United's fleet is heavily mortgaged, so a repro here & there is not surprising. Regards.

Has DL managed to sell these slots? If not, when are these scheduled to come due?

- litz (who wouldn't mind seeing 13 777s in DL livery)
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s.

http://www.delta.com/about_delta/cor...ats_facts/aircraft_fleet/index.jsp

they are owned (financed, not leased), although they make up part of DL's 20 Billion in debt that is causing them so much headache right now.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
UnitedTristar
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Just read an article today from Crain's Chicago Business, which is about N176UA, a 747 being repossessed. On another thread, don't remember which one, I read that a 747 that was recently given back to lessors will be coming back to the fleet. Is it this 747, or has another 747 been repossessed?

From what I hear the plane sat in the desert for all of two days before the bank realized that UA was serious and wouldn't pay more. This aircraft was leased since new and the owner still wanted the 950k a month for it...UA is only willing to pay the market rate of 500k a month. The aircraft will be returning shortly.


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[Edited 2005-08-15 19:10:18]
 
hoya
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:11 am

Thanks UnitedTristar. Glad to hear UA isn't losing more widebodied aircraft.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
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STT757
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:50 am

Gorgeous photo, it's a special aircraft.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
cyberual
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:04 pm

where is this plane right now? I think its still in the desert??
 
LAXintl
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:41 pm

The aircraft was withdrawn from service on August 5th, and ferried to Marana from SFO on the 8th as part of the lease rejection.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
cvg2lga
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:03 pm

does anyone know if and what routes UA flies the B747 domestic?
thnx
DA-
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uadc8contrail
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:04 pm

cvg,
ua currently flies the 400 r/t sfo-den-sfo sometimes you will see a 400 out of ord to den,sfo and lax but thats in a pinch....
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
squirrel83
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:18 pm

On deltas site with the fleet list theyt state the following

1Includes 1 B–737–800 aircraft which Delta has agreed to sell to a third party immediately after those aircraft are delivered to Delta by the manufacturer in 2005

Who is that third party anyone know?
A346, 7E7, 747, 777, Sonic Cruiser
 
dforce1
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:22 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders.

I'd like to see AC pick up some of those slots.
 
baw716
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm

Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
AADC10
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:19 am

I guess UA is playing chicken with the leasing companies. Actually, they are in a fairly strong position with the 744s since there is a very limited secondary market for them. The last thing an airline wants is to be stuck with obsolete aircraft, which is why UA has been so aggressive in renegotiating the leases on the 763s and 744s. The original long term plan was to phase out the 744s and replace them with 772s since ETOPS was extended to allow 2 engine planes on most trans-Pacific flights. The 763s are toast since 787 is on the horizon and 767 are mediocre cargo planes.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:24 am

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):
Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

Actually that is good business, there is nothing wrong with renegoitiating when you have excess capacity and a deal that is not at market rate, I say good for them!

I would think it would be more arrogant to cut the pensions of employees and not try to cut costs elsewhere.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
HanginOut
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):
Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

It may not be the wisest way to do it, but it seems to have been a necessary move on UA's part. As UnitedTristar noted

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 5):
the owner still wanted the 950k a month for it...UA is only willing to pay the market rate of 500k a month.

I'd have played hardball also if the lessor wasn't willing to budge on their rate.

I'd rather have the lessor upset at me than have to pay an extra 450k a month to keep them happy. Besides, with all of the rumours floating around that Airbus is going to provide aircraft to UA after they leave Ch. 11, they may be getting A380s, in which case having an upset 747 lessor won't matter so much.  innocent 

HanginOut
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UnitedTristar
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting HanginOut (Reply 17):
all of the rumours floating around that Airbus is going to provide aircraft to UA after they leave Ch. 11, they may be getting A380s, in which case having an upset 747 lessor won't matter so much.

UA has stated several times they are not interested in Airbus's financing offers. They have no plans in the near future to buy new aircraft.....so far. Right now they are just concentrating on getting the creditors on with the business plan before they can file it with the court. If you look at their past press releases they say that they had to delay the file for the creditors to continue to review the plan.

-m

 airplane 
 
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RobK
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 12):
On deltas site with the fleet list theyt state the following

1Includes 1 B–737–800 aircraft which Delta has agreed to sell to a third party immediately after those aircraft are delivered to Delta by the manufacturer in 2005

Who is that third party anyone know?

Hainan Airlines, B-5116.

RK
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:11 am

The operational result of this for UA is that they never (re) started the IAD-LAX 744 service on the Aug skd change. They had it in the skd, but actually ended up flying "wingtip" 767 and 320 service to fill in for the lost capacity this month.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 15):
The 763s are toast since 787 is on the horizon and 767 are mediocre cargo planes.

Didn't DL just sell all of their B-767-200s (except N102DL) to Airborne for cargo conversion? The B-767-200/300s seem to be snached up as cargo haulers as fast as they are available.
 
Candid76
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 12:55 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
The B-767-200/300s seem to be snached up as cargo haulers as fast as they are available.

Most of United's 762 fleet has been at Victorville for ages, and some of American's 762s have been stored at Roswell for so long that they have now been sold for scrap. Ansett's 762 fleet also sat in Melbourne for years until a scrap dealer bought them and flew them to Opa Locka. There are also three 762s in Brasil (ex. Transbrasil) sitting there for years.
 
mtnmanmakalu
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):

How unfortunate an event like this would have to take place.

Unfortunate? If you didn't pay on your car, It would have been repo'd long before 2 1/2 years were up... UA is lucky more A/C they don't own weren't repo'd a long time ago- Now, how about a bankruptcy exit plan and exit, UA??!!! 3 years is ENOUGH!!!
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
JumboClassic
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:06 am

Guys, let's stick to the topic. Is N176UA back in operation or not?
 
An-225
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:17 am

As far as I know, it is back in service. Once I'm at work, I'll check for sure. As for United 767-200s, this is the last photo of one in operation, just 3 days before the retirement (shameless plug):


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Alex.
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cyberual
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:46 am

it is still in MZJ. Wonder if UA will be getting any 747 so they can restart LAX-HKG  Smile
 
N1120A
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:31 pm

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 10):
cvg,
ua currently flies the 400 r/t sfo-den-sfo sometimes you will see a 400 out of ord to den,sfo and lax but thats in a pinch....

The 744 has been scheduled on LAX-IAD lately, though that may not be the actuality

Quoting CyberUAL (Reply 26):
Wonder if UA will be getting any 747 so they can restart LAX-HKG

That would likely take a back seat to some other service saddly

Quoting CyberUAL (Reply 26):
it is still in MZJ

As far as I know, no UA 744s have gone to MZJ and I certainly didn't see any when I passed Pinal Airpark 2 days ago. The ones in the desert, or that were in the desert, are at VCV
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
As far as I know, no UA 744s have gone to MZJ and I certainly didn't see any when I passed Pinal Airpark 2 days ago. The ones in the desert, or that were in the desert, are at VCV

As per my original reply#9, the aircraft ferried to MZJ on the 8th, and remains there unless if its owner has moved it since.

In addition another UA B744 was ferried to Marana from SFO yesterday(8/17)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
md90fan
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:30 pm

I thought the aircraft went to their subsidiary Chang-An Airlines



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ERJ170
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:37 pm

Quoting An-225 (Reply 25):
As far as I know, it is back in service. Once I'm at work, I'll check for sure. As for United 767-200s, this is the last photo of one in operation, just 3 days before the retirement (shameless plug):

Were these domesticate or international route aircraft? Were they ETOP certified?

If anyone is looking to buy one.. check them out here United B762
Aiming High and going far..
 
An-225
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RE: A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:11 am

762s haven't been on international routes in ages, they mostly did transcons like JFK-LAX/SFO and pre-9/11 they also flew BOS-LAX/SFO. As far as I can see, mine is the last photo of one in service. As for the plane in question, N176UA, I will get to work and check on the computer for sure. That'll be some time on Saturday.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.