lowecur
Posts: 512
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:12 am

Groundbreaking today for the new $20M Plattsburgh International Airport Terminal. It's taking place at the old Plattsburgh Air Force Base (11,700' runway). Will be completed in 2007. There's a nice video with the article that gives a sketch.

They are marketing it as the US gateway to Montreal. This cannot make Burlington(BTV) too happy, as this airport will be 1hr less travel time for the Quebec'rs. I know the Quebec'rs like to use BTV to connect to JFK for cheaper flts Internationally than YUL.

Since it looks like a 4 or 5 gate facility(open air), someone will probably sign a lease soon to lock up space. Jetblue may have to move in there by default before someone else. It's will also be a nice airport for some European Charters or weekly international flts for an LCC.

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/news/4862891/detail.html
 
tnsaf
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:17 am

Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight.

Having a long runway doesn't create a market.
700 hours and counting...
 
SHUPirate1
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:19 am

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 1):
Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight.

Having a long runway doesn't create a market.

No, but not having to pay the ridiculous Canadian Taxes does create a market!
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hz747300
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:24 am

You know Williams Airport in Chandler, AZ is also ex-USAF and has several long runways. They also built a terminal with four gates, and they have yet to lure any airlines there. It has to be at least three years now without any scheduled airlines showing even the slightest interest.
Keep on truckin'...
 
deltaguy767
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:26 am

IMO, B6 has already built a strong customer base at BTV, so why would they need to move to Plattsburgh? Also they certainly wouldn't serve both of those airports as they are way too close together about 10< miles I think for such a small customer base to begin with. Also to your point of European Charter airlines trying to grab up slots would require Customs/Immigration into the airport and not to mention a Control Tower and a CAT III or II ILS Approach to allow arrivals during IMC. Also why would they move ops from Mirabel where the airport ahs already been established, and customs wouldn't have to be transited for both the US and Canada. For these reasons I feel that any presence at Plattaburgh is unresaonable when BTV and Mirabel have already been established.

Regards,
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
SHUPirate1
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Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 4):
they certainly wouldn't serve both of those airports as they are way too close together about 10< miles I think for such a small customer base to begin with.

Actually, since there is no convenient way across Lake Champlain, it's more like a two hour drive between BTV and PBG airports.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:43 am

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 1):
Passing the crack pipe around up there are you? I doubt you will see a flood of folks from up north coming down to catch a flight

No crack pipe, but I did get indigestion from some Frog legs I had for dinner.
 
tnsaf
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:45 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 4):
Also why would they move ops from Mirabel where the airport ahs already been established, and customs wouldn't have to be transited for both the US and Canada

Mirabel is closed to pax ops. Perhaps you are thinking of Dorval?

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 2):
No, but not having to pay the ridiculous Canadian Taxes does create a market!

Where? Not in Buffalo or Grand Forks for example.
700 hours and counting...
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):
Where? Not in Buffalo or Grand Forks for example.

Buffalo is a market in and of itself, and Grand Forks' airport is three hours from Winnipeg, the nearest major Canadian city. Certainly, Plattsburgh, at an hour and a half from Montreal, would be a different story, particularly with the taxes in Canada being absurd.
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spinkid
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:26 am

Crossing the border between Canada and the U.S. isn't exactly a breeze by car. During busy times it can take an hour or so to cross. Who would want to drive an hour south from Montreal, wait another hour at the border just to catch a flight at Plattsburgh. I can't imagine it being that great of a deal.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:31 am

I thought Plattsburgh had airline service...USX.  Confused
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deltaguy767
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:34 am

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 7):

Mirabel is closed to pax ops. Perhaps you are thinking of Dorval?

I believe that the thread starter mentioned something about Europeran Charter airlines that could go to Plattsburgh. It was my understanding that Mirabel was open to charter airlines and cargo while DOrval handled all scheduled passenger airlines. If I am mistaken please tell me.

Sincerely from BDL,
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 9):
Crossing the border between Canada and the U.S. isn't exactly a breeze by car. During busy times it can take an hour or so to cross. Who would want to drive an hour south from Montreal, wait another hour at the border just to catch a flight at Plattsburgh. I can't imagine it being that great of a deal.

They are supposedly spending up to $100M for infrastructure improvements to make the border crossing much easier. Also, downtown Montreal is a 1hr drive from PBG. The airport already has 60 tenants including Pratt & Whitney, Bombardier, and Wyeth Pharma. This airport will be a very viable option for YUL.

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/money/4853133/detail.html

[Edited 2005-08-18 03:43:14]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:42 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 11):
It was my understanding that Mirabel was open to charter airlines and cargo while DOrval handled all scheduled passenger airlines. If I am mistaken please tell me.

That was the case until last fall. All passenger operations are now out of Trudeau (formerly Dorval).
a.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:05 am

I think you got the wrong P_ttsburgh for JetBlue's next look. I'm not saying they're coming to Pittsburgh, nor starting that rumor, but I'd give 50 to 1 odds they go to Pittsburgh before Plattsburgh.
 
tnsaf
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 12):
Also, downtown Montreal is a 1hr drive from PBG

I gotta call BS on that one. Having made the drive from St-Jean outside of Montreal there in slightly less than one hour there is no way you can make it from downtown to Plattsburgh in an hour. Throw in average Montreal traffic and you are looking at two hours. Throw in heavy summer traffic at the border and forget it.

You claim to be trying to attract the budget traveler. In Montreal most of that is heading to Florida or Cuba. The Cuban vacation traffic isn't going to fly out of Plattsburg and the charter activity to Florida is not over priced either.

As for the taxes, I think burning 4 hours of gas at over a $1 a liter plus the cost of parking and the extra hassle negate this horrible burden. Anyway how much will the passenger facility fee have to be to recoup the cost of the upgrade to the airport?

Hopes and wishes don't counter economics.
700 hours and counting...
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:25 am

I beg to differ...I think it would be more attractive to the intra-US traveller, who is now paying domestic fares and taxes as opposed to the transborder fares and taxes...Obviously, with jetBlue's route map, that would likely mean E190 service to JFK, with connecting service to Florida and the West Coast. And like I said, despite Burlington being 20 miles from Plattsburgh, it's a two hour drive because you have to go all the way around Lake Champlain. That said, Google Maps has the Plattsburgh-Montreal drive at about an hour and a half, I highly doubt it's an hour drive for ANYBODY from Montreal to Plattsburgh, even if Google and Mapquest usually use the figures based on people driving the speed limit in Mopeds.

[Edited 2005-08-18 04:46:51]
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
LH423
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:37 am

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 15):
I gotta call BS on that one. Having made the drive from St-Jean outside of Montreal there in slightly less than one hour there is no way you can make it from downtown to Plattsburgh in an hour.

Yes, but St-Jean is on the road to Vermont/I-89 (Autoroute 35 and Route 133) whereas you use Autoroute 15 to get to Plattsburgh/I-87

Having driven up to Montréal more times than I care to count, I can attest that it doesn't take more than 1 hour from the Highgate Springs/Philipsburg crossing and that's using slower, less direct Rte 133/35 to 10. Although the Rouses Point/St-Bernard-de-Lacolle is the busiest crossing between Québec and the U.S.

Nonetheless, I don't think the idea of Plattsburgh being a gateway to Montréal and the province of Québec will, in the long run, be very successful, especially with BTV already pretty well entrenched. Also, the wait times at the Route 133/I-89 is generally less than the Autoroute 15/I-87 crossing.

LH423
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A330323X
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 10):
I thought Plattsburgh had airline service...USX.

CommutAir serves PLB as Continental Connection, with nonstop service to BOS, BTV and SLK. They did also previously serve PLB when they flew as a US Airways Express carrier as well, until late 2000. (In fact, CommutAir is based in PLB.)
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
stirling
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:14 pm

Bellingham.
Only 40 miles from Vancouver...yet no bum rush by airlines wanting to slide under the border-crossing tax.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 8):
Grand Forks' airport is three hours from Winnipeg, the nearest major Canadian city.

Interesting you bring it up...in 1983 I made the 3 hour trip to YWG for a cheaper flight to LHR...NW's comparable fare to LGW was about $300 more.
And besides...Winnipeg is just not a draw. At least in the vane of Vancouver and Montreal.

Plattsburgh? Wishful thinking. Sorry for being pessimist.
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lowecur
Posts: 512
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 pm

RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:47 pm

So it looks like the hour drive is in dispute.

I wonder if there are any figures out there as far as Canadians driving to BTV to fly? This is a question that probably only Jetblue can answer, and the one that will determine if they show up at PBG. One thing is certain, the infrastructure is being put into place to make this a successful transborder airport and an hour less drive will make all the difference to those now traveling to BTV.

Time will tell, but my money is on Jetblue showing up there at some point and using 190's exclusively out of BTV.
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:24 pm

It see no chances of jetBlue successfully being lobbied into Plattsburgh. Burlington has just got jetBlue already, and I see no point in them servicing both airports, regardless of distance.
BTW: I thought plattsburgh to burlington was a bit shorter thanks to ferry?
PPS: CommutAir flies Burlington-Plattsburgh, doulb edaily, and actually has sold some seats on the flight!

-Mr. x

[Edited 2005-08-18 16:26:04]
What now?
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2291
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RE: Will Jetblue Look To Plattsburgh (PBG)?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:06 am

How about Southwest starting service?

Their closest markets are ALB or MHT.

Now putting on the flameproof suit!

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