FLYiCRJ
Topic Author
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:57 am

Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:51 pm

Northwest Airlines Corp said late on Wednesday that a new offer by its mechanics' union fell short of the concessions the carrier is seeking, signaling that the sides are far apart as a strike deadline looms.

This is great....I am flying NWA tommorrow afternoon. Hope this wont affect me!!! banghead 

Heres the full link:
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050818/airlines_northwest.html?.v=1:
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:02 pm

Red Alert! Red Alert! Karl has been Scooped!!
 
toltommy
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:57 pm

The more I watch this, the more I think that AMFA just didn't get it. They approached this suing same old tactics. It's very clear that NWA intends to get every penny of the concession that they want. They didn't ask for $176 million while willing to settle for less. They really want the whole $176 million. Yet AMFA keeps offering less, hoping that NWA will accept less than the whole amount. I had been 50/50 on whether this strike/lockout would happen, but now I'm leaning towards it....
 
WMUPilot
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:02 am

When does the 30 day cooling off period end?
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
geg2rap
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:25 am

Friday at midnight eastern
 
airlinelover
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting FLYiCRJ (Thread starter):
This is great....I am flying NWA tommorrow afternoon. Hope this wont affect me!!!

Just don't expect to see any NW or US 752's with winglets and you should be fine..

Strike getting closer and closer... Hmm.. Hope it doesn't happen..

Chris
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:04 am

I too hope it doesn't happen...I think today will play out one way or the other...my "gut" is telling me they will be walking.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:35 am

NWAFA,

Whats the feeling among the FA's as far as crossing the picket line, should there be one?
 
mtnmanmakalu
Posts: 493
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:39 am

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 7):
Whats the feeling among the FA's as far as crossing the picket line, should there be one?

From the crews I have worked with, my informal consensus would be that the F/A's are going to work as normal- They don't want to lose their jobs over somebody else's strike as the language in the contract has many grey areas.... That's just my opinion and most of those I have worked with...
Now if it was a PFAA F/A strike, it would be totally different...

mtnman
I do, I don't, whatever.......
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:18 am

Hi LUVRSW,

As Mtnmanmakalu stated, this is a very gray area. Our Contract has bad language (thanks again for nothing teamsters!) on this subject. However under the Railway Act there is protection should a Flight Attendant choose to not cross the pick lines. The company will use the Flight Attendant "CONTRACT" language here to go against the Flight Attendants that do not cross. For that reason I feel the strike vote for AMFA is going to be a NO. Only for the reason of the contract language. If our contract had better language the FA's would very much support AMFA.

Now, if this was a Flight Attendant (PFAA) strike vote for the FA's I can tell you it would be a 100% YES YES YES (or at least the very high 90's).

Does that make sense?

NWAFA
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
zsx81
Posts: 288
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:26 am

http://today.reuters.com/business/ne...s&storyID=nN18310672&imageid=&cap=

Another interesting article... Wall Street is saying "they ve never seen an airline so well prepared for an industrial action". The stock is actually up quiet a bit..
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:34 am

ZSX81

Over 100 million has been used for preparations! People on here that says everyone should just take a paycut wonder why we are saying no!! If the company spent that money on things like being more productive on contract talk more would happen!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
commavia
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 9):
For that reason I feel the strike vote for AMFA is going to be a NO.

When will the results of the FA strike authorization vote be finalized? After all, the strike is less than 48 hours away!
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:43 am

I would agree that the strike is probably 50/50. I'm not saying that management is right and the mechanics are wrong. But when you are one of the highest paid groups (#2 I think) in the industry and your company is losing money it's hard to justify your workforce and pay rates.

What concerns me the most though is this comment from MacFarlane:

"There is the potential possibility that safety is going to be compromised and someone is going to have to pay the price for Northwest's reckless behavior."

This is a scare tactic that should not be brought into the fight. Are pilots going to fly unsafe planes? NO! Would the FAA allow it? NO! But yet the media will probably carry this message and make an issue of it.

GRRTVC
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 13):
This is a scare tactic that should not be brought into the fight

I agree, that's really low, regardless of all other issues. And a very difficult thing to fix for the Company after such communication is broadcasted...

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 13):
Are pilots going to fly unsafe planes?

Jesus...

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 13):
Would the FAA allow it?

No... and nobody should, and it is a stupid thing that somebody would use that argument in the middle of it all, I agree with you GRRR. I am appalled this kind of argument was used.
Take off and live
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:24 am

Commavia

They may not be posted. Why should the company know if they are to bring the SCABS in or not.

GRR,

We may be NOW but for decades we were the LOWEST paid. However, being in the top right now, NWA work groups are the MOST productive (next to Southwest) in the industry. We staff all flights at FAA minimums. Internationally we work 744's with ONLY 12 and a good day 13 FAs. UA still is at 15-18. AA on 777s are 11 and 12 where on DC10s we are at 7.

You and the company need to look at much more than just the actual dollar figure here. 7 FA on a Full DC10 (298 pax) or 12 FA's on a 777 at AA that holds around the same amount of people. NWA gate agents are working ONE per gate for narrow bodies and two per gate for wide bodies. I see THREE working all the time at CO, AA. WN has two and some times three agents working at a gate.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:42 am

NWAFA...

I don't disagree that NW management is using less staff for certain jobs (Please do not try to relate this to safety! Less people does not equal unsafe!) And that should to some extent be a good thing. Doing more with less.

But the thing is, if more staff/labor needs to be cut then so be it. No job should ever be guaranteed. If the company, whether it is NW, Ford, 3M, etc, needs to cut staff to stay in business then that is what should happen. If they keep every person and go under then who has a job? No one.

But you also have to look at other carriers that are making money. FL for example cross utilizes staff. Granted it is difficult if not impossible to use a mechanic to check people in but FA's help clean the plane, the CSA's at the ATO counter also take boarding passes at the gate door, and I even seen pilots help the FA's with the cabin post/pre flight cabin duties.

What it boils down to is this. Do you want a job today or a job tomorrow? If you want a job today then don't give in. Tell management to pound sand. If you want a job tomorrow, give in. This may mean the person you are working next to gets cut but that is life. It sucks yes. But if there is any hope that there is company to work for tomorrow then that is what is going to have to happen.

If AA is using more FA's on there flights then may be an application needs to be filed with AA for a position. You are not tied to NW and NW is not tied to you.

Sorry... I hope you don't take offense to that. I wasn't trying to be rude. It's just my opinion.

GRRTVC
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:47 am

And sorry GRR I dont buy your thought. The 2nd AA puts 7 FA's on their 777 people will get in an uproar. YOU will get ticked off that you waited.

So I guess just to keep a job that I need to take a pay cut. Too bad the my mortgage isnt going to come down. My car payment (yea I could get something different) My insurances are not going to change. My medical bills are not going away. My RX's are not coming down in price. But then thats the right wing way of thinking, lets keep the corporations going and not let the working class get ahead in life!

After 15 years (and now my 2nd airline, was with Pan Am for 10 years) Im not going to start at the bottom unless I have to, and then I wont re-tred a third time!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:00 am

WALK,WALK,WALK!!! Show em' who's boss!!! and out fo work!

Give em Hell red shirts!
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:02 am

Contrail -oops UAcosCS

Another smart addition to the string!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:08 am

Another flight attendant with nothing better to do than praise a lousy airline!

I occasionally check A.NET and you never seem to change, same rants and same BS, good to see you aren't capable of thinking outside the box.

Enjoy them(posts), however.

Contrail is back for a little while longer, time away has been nice.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:09 am

NWAFA...

I'm not trying to upset anyone. I have bills too and depend on my paycheck just as much as the next person.

My point is that upper management folks, i.e. execs are not going to hurt financially whether NW (or any company for that matter) goes under. So how do you save your job?

Do you not give in? If you do that and NW agrees not to press the issue but keeps losing money and goes under, how do you pay your bills, your mortgage?

I agree that the upper folks on a individual basis are not hurting financially. But as a collective group, I have to believe that the overall management staff only makes up a small portion of the overall bigger picture then what the general labor population thinks.

GRRTVC
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:10 am

Contrail - UAcosCS hasn't changed one bit. Over time many of us (including ANet) had hoped that you would have 1. stayed away 2. became nicer 3. both, and we can see that has not happend.

Please stop with your old drop in attack, mode that you have done for years.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
slider
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 9):
this is a very gray area

No gray area at all: if you sympathy strike, you get fired. What's to guess?

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 11):
Over 100 million has been used for preparations! People on here that says everyone should just take a paycut wonder why we are saying no!! If the company spent that money on things like being more productive on contract talk more would happen!

Makes perfect sense--spend $100M now to save or avert $500M plus long term with an onerous, byzantine labor contract and a nasty militant union that has inefficient work rules.
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:15 am

Do you want a prize since the pea in your head figured out such a hard riddle? I came back, deal with it.

Second, on the UAL side, us folks here always hoped you would stop posting or mature a little, neither happened, SO we move forward.

Have a wonderful day, sugar!
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:17 am

Slider,

Under the RailRoad Act there is protection in place for other union strikers. There is a change that the FA's will be TEMPORARY replaced until it goes to court yet it is very clear and precedent is also in place that they will GET TO LEGALLY COME BACK.

So thats the only gray area.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
av8rphx
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:02 am

I wish the best for you folks at NW. As a commuter out of MSP I have got many a ride from NW and nothing but great treatment from the crews,ground staff, res agents. I also have friends at NW who have recently just came off of furlough, I hope for their sake and their family's sake they are able to pull through this.  Smile
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 25):
Under the RailRoad Act there is protection in place for other union strikers. There is a change that the FA's will be TEMPORARY replaced until it goes to court yet it is very clear and precedent is also in place that they will GET TO LEGALLY COME BACK.

So thats the only gray area.

What is NOT a grey area in your contract (I was reading it yesterday), however, is that if you all walk, NWA is contractually banned from using scabs on any flights except for those to or from Bangkok, Beijing, Busan, Guam, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Manila, Nagoya, Osaka, Phnom Penh, Saipan, Seoul, Shanghai, Singapore, Taipei, and Tokyo, and then those scabs are not allowed to be citizens of the United States.

I will continue to read up to see if there is or is not a sympathy strike clause.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
sendMEtoLAS
Posts: 66
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:27 am

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that NW's recent expansions facing direct competition with LCC's is irresponsible? I mean, come on now. Look at how they entered IND matching fares that have been historically low and unprofitable from that airport.
Also I've noticed that NW is doing their best to match discount fares of FL in FNT and MKE also.
Why? Why would this airline that has high costs jump into markets that are saturated, and to discounted a legacy carrier to profit? To me it's foolish to enter routes purely for marketshare if it's not profitable. This is a business they are running, not a popularity contest.
I feel like NW's situation is the fault of poor management. What they are doing to their employees is wrong. If I was a NW mechanic, pilot, or flight attendant, there is no doubt that I wouldn't think twice about walking. Train my replacement, yeah right. That's a slap in the face of employees and labor in general. Labor needs to fight back.
 
Derik737
Posts: 262
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:14 am

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 13):
Are pilots going to fly unsafe planes? NO! Would the FAA allow it? NO!

I disagree. If that were the case. then we would never have had accidents related to maintenance. But if I recall, there have been a few due to improper maintenance.

A pilot doesn't know if the airplane is safe or not unless something is blatantly obvious (blown tire, big hole in the fuselage, faulty indication during self-test). He/she makes sure the airworthiness release is signed in the logbook before flight. That's what indicates the airplane is airworthy. The trust is placed on the mechanic to deliver a safe airplane to the pilot.

Unless an FAA inspector is standing over every mechanic and reviewing every bit of paperwork, how on earth could they say the airplane is safe for dispatch? They also have to trust that the system works (that's the real reason they are there; to monitor the airlines Quality Control).

I'm not saying that using replacement workers necessarily is going to make NWA's operations unsafe. However, I can tell you that these people will be under a LOT of pressure from management to keep the schedule running smoothly and they will be unfamiliar with a lot of aircraft systems. In my opinion, it takes about 2 years to really get to know the airplane you are working on which is why mechanics are subjected to hours of On the Job Training (OJT) under the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing. This is not possible at NWA in this situation.

I've worked in this industry for quite some time and I've seen shady mechanics and workmanship (in my professional opinion of course). A lot of these mechanics typically end up as the "bottom feeders".

I remember one night at a contract maintenance facility when the inspector walked into work. They told him he was scheduled for a drug test that night. He gathered his personal items and quit on the spot. Now since he wasn't fired, I am sure he went on to work at another facility.

At another 3rd party maintenance facility an inspector had signed off an area as completed. However a repair adjacent required the opening up of that area. When it was opened, a nice pile of dust was located where some stringers should have been. Needless to say, a major repair was required and that inspector was let go.

It's these type of mechanics that I have no respect for and who seem to enjoy working for these contract mechanic firms (not to say all are like that).

[Edited 2005-08-19 04:16:42]
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:15 am

RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:22 pm

Derik737,

What t'd me off about the comment from MacFarlane was that I feel he is trying to make a direct connection to safety and the proposed replacement mechanics.

I would hope that during these times that no current NW mechanic would do something malicious that would contribute to an incident or worse. And I'm not saying MacFarlane was suggesting that the current mechanics were going to be destructive either.

I don't believe the current NW mechanics would do anything but I also feel that saying replacement mechanics are inferior and incompetent is scare tactic that shouldn't be used. They are not fresh out of school and they will do their best to keep up with the "new" NW procedures if it comes to that.

GRRTVC
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:07 pm

i'm surprised that the pilots, who if i believe what i read, have already agreed to 300 million in cuts, aren't putting pressure on the mechanics, to just swallow the 176 million in cuts like a bitter pill in the name of keeping the entity they both work for financially solvent and out of BK, if not, maybe they need to do so. i'm not necessarily anti-union, but i do hope that the pilots and flight attendants do not honor the mechanics picket lines, not only as a future NW passenger (flying them den-ams in a week) but as a travel agent who is going to have to deal with the fallout of a an NW strike

on a second, hopefully, not completely unrelated note:

i remember reading somewhere a long time ago that when Alfred Checchi took NW private, before the employees bought it back and got rid of him, i was appalled to hear that he had sold one square block NW owned in downtown Tokyo for a billion dollars and rather than put the money back into the airline, he handed it out to his investors with the comment "they need a return on their investment" something i felt at the time was the most completely ridiculous, arrogant thing i had ever heard. what dawns on me today, some ten years later is, if NW had that billion dollars, would they be in their current situation?

if not, maybe rather than going after NW (aka a strike) the AMFA should file suit against Checchi and try to recoup the money he effectively "stole" from NW when he sold their downtown tokyo realestate and didn't re-invest the proceeds back into the airline

just my 2 cents

Scott
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 31):
i'm surprised that the pilots, who if i believe what i read, have already agreed to 300 million in cuts, aren't putting pressure on the mechanics, to just swallow the 176 million in cuts like a bitter pill in the name of keeping the entity they both work for financially solvent and out of BK

Something about the pilots being asked to take ANOTHER 40% paycut might have something to do with that?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
aviationwiz
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:03 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 23):
Makes perfect sense--spend $100M now to save or avert $500M plus long term with an onerous, byzantine labor contract and a nasty militant union that has inefficient work rules.

Or, maybe spend $100 mil. to put on the table, and avoid the strike altogether! Ever thought of that one? This airline is purely trying to bust the union with their recent behavior, and I for one won't stand for it.

As for the militant union remark, I just heard on CNN that striking workers will be ready to shoot scabs with AK-47 machine guns, and they have Ground-to-Air missiles ready to fire at planes. Come on! What a dumbass remark is that? You make it sound like the union is about to take up guerilla warfare when you say militant!
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: Northwest Mechanics Offer Falls Short!

Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:00 pm

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 33):
Or, maybe spend $100 mil. to put on the table, and avoid the strike altogether! Ever thought of that one? This airline is purely trying to bust the union with their recent behavior, and I for one won't stand for it.

Yeah, I'm sure AMFA would be willing to bend over backwards at that point..  Yeah sure

The logic that the union is using, is completely baffling. We're going to save our jobs by striking and grounding the airline? I'd love to know how that works.

Frankly, they need to suck it up, take the cuts and move on. Does the way management is operating and negotiating suck the big one? You bet. Are they going to cave? Doubtful.

It sucks all around, but they have the option of putting 53% of their MX co-workers out of a job, or putting the entire company out of work. Time for the union to stop the BS, accept the deal and get on with things.

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 33):
As for the militant union remark, I just heard on CNN that striking workers will be ready to shoot scabs with AK-47 machine guns, and they have Ground-to-Air missiles ready to fire at planes. Come on! What a dumbass remark is that? You make it sound like the union is about to take up guerilla warfare when you say militant!

militant

Your comment would hold more validity if you had a grasp of English language. The term, however you may incorrectly interpret it, is valid.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.