EMBTucano
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Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:09 am

I was chatting with a friend of mine who is an 737 Pilot in one of the major airline here in Brazil. He told me that most of the times when the best decision would be to proceed a go around they simply won’t do it mostly due to Ego problem. In other words, they would refuse to Go around, because pilots don’t want to admit that they did not make a good approach and so on. What are your thoughts about it?

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EMBTucano
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NWAFA
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:22 am

I would stay clear of that airline if he is saying that!!!

I would hate to hear a pilot not go around because of their egos. It also scary to hear of pilots that go in when they should go around because they are tired (i.e. AA in LIT).
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planesailing
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:25 am

It is a good enough suggestion, afterall who ever wants to admit that they are wrong.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting EMBTucano (Thread starter):

Was talking to some Pilot Friends including a few Brazialians who recently joined us out here at BDA/DHL.
I dont think thats the case.I the situation warrants a Go-Around.It will be initiated.
regds
MEL
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xjramper
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:31 am

Ego....lol.

If my plane and my passengers' safety is compromised in any fashion upon landing, there is no question that I will go around. I have done a couple of go arounds in my flying career and have not been ashamed once.

XJR
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planesailing
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting XjRaMpEr (Reply 4):
Ego....lol.

If my plane and my passengers' safety is compromised in any fashion upon landing, there is no question that I will go around. I have done a couple of go arounds in my flying career and have not been ashamed once.

Im not a pilot myself, and I am only guessing but...

I presume there are two types of go around decisions.

1) One where either the approach is completely wrong, or another factor, such as weather or aircraft problems render a go-around.

2) The approach is slightly fast, or you are not 100% lined up with the centre line etc.

If the second scenario is the case, would it not be fair to assume you ride out the landing as experience says it will be alright?
 
AA54Heavy
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:40 am

There is an interesting article on just this (in terms of general aviation atleast) months issue of AOPA's Flight Training Monthly. I just read it last night and its very interesting. At the end of the day, I sure hope that I, or the pilot flying me, can maintain a cool enough head to conciously make the decision to go-around or even divert if conditions are beyond our capabilities, etc.
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atrude777
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:45 am

As a passneger I would hope safety comes first for the pilot, and not shame. I would rather he make a go around and trouble us a bit more, then him going for it and possibly crashing. I will NEVER make fun of a pilot for doing a go around.

Alex
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rushed
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:53 pm

Even as just a light aircraft pilot you are trained from the very start that if you are not sure about your approach or you have any concerns, then you should just go around and do it again. Its much better to go around and have another go than try to recover and stuff it up. Making the decision to go around shows that you are really aware of the situation that you have found yourself in. Its good airmanship to be able to recognise the need to go around, and then execute the go around. I would never fly on an airline if i knew thier pilots were worried about thier egos during a go around situation!

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 5):
I presume there are two types of go around decisions.

1) One where either the approach is completely wrong, or another factor, such as weather or aircraft problems render a go-around.

2) The approach is slightly fast, or you are not 100% lined up with the centre line etc.

If the second scenario is the case, would it not be fair to assume you ride out the landing as experience says it will be alright?

There are many reasons for initiating a go around. You have got some of them here, but there are alot more than this. Basically if the pilot feels for any reason that the aircraft will not be able to make a safe landing or they are uncomfortable with the landing, then a go around can be initiated.

This is unless of course you have a helicopter hovering in your go around area, which i have had on an occasion. Tower gave me "Cleared to land, helicopter in your go around area....." we replied with "well we better not go around then, cleared to land".. was funny.
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PhilSquares
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:08 pm

I guess I view go arounds as falling into two categories.

First is "controller directed". The controller directs the go around due to spacing, traffic conflict or some other issue.

The second is a "pilot directed". There is a decision by the Pilot to go around due to something under his control. For example, not stabilized at 500' AGL (visual approach), wind shear or some other factor.

Personally, I look at it from the perspective of I get paid by the minute. In the long run, it's no skin off my nose if I have to do a go around. Now, there are some airlines that require the Captain to fill out all sorts of paperwork if a go around is accomplished. To me, that sends the wrong message. I don't know if the airlines you're referring to have that sort of attitude, but most of the ones I know of don't.
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Shenzhen
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:45 pm

I think there are more factors on a pilot not initiating a go around, when they would prefer to do so... although ego could certainly play a part.

I know of some airlines where the pilots are under intense pressure to not do a go around unless they absolutely need to, and this is more of a cost issue.

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jumboforever
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:49 pm

Unstabalized approaches on final are indeed a problem for many airlines.
For obvious security reasons, the criteria that should lead to a Go-Around are very strict and many pilots 'think' that being just a little bit out of the parameters is still enough to land. It's sad but I guess it's human nature.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
Now, there are some airlines that require the Captain to fill out all sorts of paperwork if a go around is accomplished.

What you say here is really interesting. I worked some years ago on a project for a well know carrier. The project was to develop an Intranet system to allow pilots to report incidents (including go-around but not only) easily and in some case anonymously.
The main idea was to allow the pilot to report incident without fearing to be fired or without the trouble of paperwork. Those reports were compiled later on to eventually modify the company procedures. Unstabilized approaches were one of the main concern of this company.

I left the project when it was ready so I don't know if it was a successful experience, but I think it's going in the right direction.

Regards,

JumboForever

[Edited 2005-08-19 10:58:40]
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting JumboForever (Reply 11):
The project was to develop an Intranet system to allow pilots to report incidents (including go-around but not only) easily and in some case anonymously.

That's just the point. What makes a go around an incident? It shouldn't be. Now if there is a subsequent fuel problem due to the go around then that's a different story. But, pilots are concerned it they initiate a go around, the next person they'll be talking to is the Chief Pilot. The conversation will be about the go around and most pilots are convinced they will be second guessed. That's not what it's all about.

I worked for a US airline, very extensive domestic and Pacific operations, the dispatchers there were required to note every time a Capt wanted fuel over and above the dispatch figure. The amount, reason and Capt was tracked. Guess what? If you asked too many times you were called into the CP's office to justify why you wanted extra fuel.

Those kinds of things aren't going to foster safety in the cockpit. People start hedging their decisions because they're being second guessed.
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FlySSC
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RE: Go Around - Is It A Ego Problem?

Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:46 pm

That question of the "ego" in a go-around decision is not stupid and also not very new...

I think it was certainly more often the case 40 or 50 years ago, with another generation of 'pioneer" pilots who had a very particular mentality...

But things have changed and I'm sure it is not the case anymore today !