vingt20cent
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am

YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:10 am

Hi!

I was at YYZ today and had some time to kill. I headed over to the new T1. It's a huge facility. I understand that it's not completed and won't be done for another couple of years.

I noticed that AC's domestic and international flights are serviced at T1. In addition, the STAR Alliance flights are stationed there as well, except UA. On the other hand, all of AC's US flights take off from T2.

Question #1: Once T1 is completely done, will there be enough "operations" to use all of T1? The terminal goes from Aisles A - Q (except I and O). . . is there enough business to use all the space?

Question #2: Will do they plan AC's US flight to move over to T1?

Question #3: Why did Westjet leave T2?

Oh by the way, I went to the infamous Wendy's parking lot on Airport Rd. Had a great time having my Frosty and watching planes hover over my head!

Thanks for the info!

V.
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:21 am

AFIK alot of T2 will be demolished when T1 is done so there will be lots of operations to move over. I think WJ will be moving to T1 soon. ( in fact i thought the plan was to move in may)

Joe
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:51 am

All of T2 will be going down, but that still will not 'fill up' T1 once everything is moved over, not even close. Of course, it makes sense that the GTAA would want to have extra space -room to grow- as it were, but I would agree with your implication that T1 may be too big (and too expensive) all the same.

I don't have the numbers offhand, so I hope someone will correct me here, but I think I've read that T1 when fully complete should be able to handle something like 40-45 million passengers per year, whereas the TOTAL traffic at YYZ is more around 30 million - and let's not forget that T3 is still active. Again, I may be way off, but I believe it's in that ballpark. So when will T1 really be full? Who knows, but I woudl say there's no rush to get the last sections completed.

By the way, yes, all AC flights will eventually be in T1 - the sooner the better, as T2 is not much of a terminal right now - already partly closed. You can see part of the transborder area of the new terminal which appears (At least) to be almost complete, alongside one of the sections already in use.

As for why WS left T2 - see above, it's not much of a terminal at the moment, and the demise of SG left a lot of vacancy over at the much newer and nicer T3. I'm not sure when WS hopes to move to T1, or even if they are hoping to do so at all at this point. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will have some info on the matter, though.

Jean Leloup
Next flight.... who knows.
 
cslusarc
Posts: 553
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:59 am

YYZ's Terminal 1 will become a "mega-terminal" and eventually YYZ's only terminal.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
YYZatcboy
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:04 am

I am in no hurry to see it full. It is nice and spacious. Not a Full and horrible atomsphere like T2 and Rushhour at T3. I expect to see T3 around for a while yet.
DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
 
vingt20cent
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 3):
YYZ's Terminal 1 will become a "mega-terminal" and eventually YYZ's only terminal.

Really? I didn't realize that they were considering shutting down T3. I thought that T3 was privately owned and operated.
 
Olympus69
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Vingt20cent (Reply 5):
Really? I didn't realize that they were considering shutting down T3. I thought that T3 was privately owned and operated

If they are it's the first I've heard about it, and I'm fairly knowledgable about goings on at YYZ.
 
Olympus69
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:42 pm

Quoting Vingt20cent (Thread starter):
Question #1: Once T1 is completely done, will there be enough "operations" to use all of T1? The terminal goes from Aisles A - Q (except I and O). . . is there enough business to use all the space?

I certainly hope not. You don't build a terminal to meet current demand. You build it large enough to be able to handle the traffic for the next 40 years or so.
 
lh477
Posts: 567
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:28 pm

T1 is being built to handle growth of the Airport for the next 50years. Eventually, I believe they will join the two builds, in essence becoming 1 termial....This again is another 5-10 years away...
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
DiscoPete
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:14 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:51 pm

Der Master Plan

And they are still making noises about a new airport in Pickering and there is great pressure to close city center airport. Meanwhile the GTA is experiencing steady growth.
 
YYZAeroEng
Posts: 160
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:55 pm

There was an article in ROB magazine. I don't have it with me, but I'll look it up when I get home.

The ultimate plan, is at some point after 2014 to demolish T3 (which was bought by the GTAA just after it's creation I think), and expand T1.



Rohan
Mind that Bus! What bus? *Splat!*
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:33 pm

The long term goal is to have one larger terminal building at YYZ. T3 will be expanded and improved until the older part of it have reached the end of useful life. When T3 is expected to be "done for" is not stated, although it is sometime after 2015 and probably after 2020 if the charts that show T3 capacity through 2020 are to be believed.

You can read all about it at:

http://www.gtaa.com/Index.aspx?Sid=Node7/Node7.3/Node7.3.5&Tpl=1
 
ba777-236
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 3):
YYZ's Terminal 1 will become a "mega-terminal" and eventually YYZ's only terminal.

Umm.. I hope your "eventually" is reffering to 20 years or more...

I have never heard a thing about T3 being shut-down.. Infact they have recently expanded the parking lot over there, and are currently building a transit-train between T3 and T-New!
I like British Airways! I'm not sure why, but I do! ;-)
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:21 pm

Quoting Vingt20cent (Thread starter):
I went to the infamous Wendy's parking lot on Airport Rd.

I knew it was famous. Why exactly is it infamous?

Quoting Olympus69 (Reply 6):
Quoting Vingt20cent (Reply 5):
Really? I didn't realize that they were considering shutting down T3. I thought that T3 was privately owned and operated

If they are it's the first I've heard about it, and I'm fairly knowledgable about goings on at YYZ.

John, the final design calls for mega-terminal with 7 piers which will eventually replace the current T3. This will not be happening for at least another 15 years however.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
Olympus69
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Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2002 11:21 pm

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 13):
John, the final design calls for mega-terminal with 7 piers which will eventually replace the current T3. This will not be happening for at least another 15 years however.

15 years you say? I doubt if I'll be around that long so I won't worry about it Smile
 
lnglive1011yyz
Posts: 1502
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:02 am

Don't forget -- T1 AND T2 were built by the Government, and the day each of them opened respectively, they were already too small, and at a disadvantage technologically (advent of 747 / Jets for T1, etc).

The GTAA has built the terminal with the FUTURE in mind. Regardless of whether they hit the target dead on, and surpass it in terms of traffic growth, the GTAA will have a formidable option in the new T1 to keep things moving along.

People in general always have this "is it too big? Have we spent too much money?" attitude, with the lack of foresight being a major downfall.

Just look at the city of Toronto for a second:

For such a large city, our mass-transportation system is completely and utterly archaic. There should be subway lines *everywhere*.

The 401 was never built with expansion in mind, and look where we are today? Same with the DVP. We have *2* major arteries to get into and out of DT Toronto. That's it, with *no* room for expansion.

The fact that the GTAA has built T1 new with expansion in mind, actually makes me a feel a bit better about the decisions they make regarding the airport.

1011yyz
Pack your bags, we're going on a sympathy trip!
 
ExPedia
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:37 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:33 am

The other thing to remember here is that this construction should bring a lot more international in-bond pax hubbing through YYZ as opposed to US hubs enroute to other countries - compliments of the increasing visa hassle the US is putting in place. (E.G. NRT-YYZ-EZE). This is in addition to domestic hubbing pax, YYZ origin growth etc. In 10 years, I doubt anyone will be saying that Pearson is too big. They might say it is too expensive, but not too big.
-- ExPedia
 
donreith
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 12:04 pm

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 2):
As for why WS left T2 - see above, it's not much of a terminal at the moment, and the demise of SG left a lot of vacancy over at the much newer and nicer T3.

The domestic gates they were operating from in T2 are being demolished to make room for T1-New. That's what triggered the move back to T3.
 
ExPedia
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:37 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:51 am

Another benefit: since all carriers other than AC/UA are operating from T3, people making do-it-yourself connections to/from WS can stay in the same terminal.
-- ExPedia
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:07 pm

Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 11):
You can read all about it at:

http://www.gtaa.com/Index.aspx?Sid=N...Tpl=1

I went to this URL and ended up spending quite a bit of time reading about the airport master plan, then the Pickering project, then the Oak Ridges Moraine, then about the planned but never built expressways of Toronto, and then about GO Transit's proposed route expansions in the future. Thanks!  Yeah sure

Seriously, it really was very interesting.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
gearup
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Vingt20cent (Thread starter):
Oh by the way, I went to the infamous Wendy's parking lot on Airport Rd. Had a great time having my Frosty and watching planes hover over my head!

I guess the management at Wendy's don't mind spotters in their parking lot or do they? Maybe they are okay with it if you buy a frosty!

 bouncy 
I have no memory of this place.
 
LHMark
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:46 pm

How old is T3? I'm surprised it may have a date with the wrecking ball. It's a fantastic terminal, with a good modern design and plenty of space. OK, the Int'l arrivals scheme sucks, but that's pretty common in airports throughout the world.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
vingt20cent
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:05 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Gearup (Reply 20):
I guess the management at Wendy's don't mind spotters in their parking lot or do they? Maybe they are okay with it if you buy a frosty!

That's the secret. . . buy a Frosty! lol No seriously, I was actually quite surprised to see so many plane spotters. It was wonderful to have planes hover over your head just as they land.

Since the old T1 is no longer there, plane spotting is difficult. But merci dieu for the Wendy's parking lot!

Cheers!
 
ExPedia
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:37 am

RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting LHMark (Reply 21):
How old is T3?

T3 opened sometime in the early 90's - like '92 or '93.
-- ExPedia
 
Cruiser
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RE: YYZ's T1 - Too Big?

Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:06 am

I thought that Westjet had already moved. I know that they are slowly demolishing sections of T2 already to make more room for T1. As well, the new hammerhead is progressing well, and should be ready next year, or the year after (cannot remember specific timelines).

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"

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