debonair
Posts: 2749
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:17 pm

I have a question on VIP B727. Many of these birds have extra fuel-tanks! what about ETOPS?? Etops stands for "extended twin engine", but the B727 has got 3 engines! So, doesn't the rule apply for B727- or in other way: can a B727 with extra fuel tanks operate non-stop from the USA to europe straight overwater??

Thanx for any infos

ChriX
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:25 pm

Since the whole point of ETOPS is based on the risks associated with operating on a single engine (should the only other engine on a twin fail) then it's probably irrelevant.
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:26 pm

ETOPS are for twins only, and only those used for hire.
Privately owned twin engined aircraft are exempt.
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:54 pm

All of the above have it correct plus the fact that standard B727-100s were used on regular trans Atlantic charter flights in the 1960s, Wardair being the first followed by TIA, ONA and American Flyers Airline.

Refuelling points were any of Shannon, Gander, Prestwick or Sonde Stromfjord
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:25 pm

Airlift were also active across the Atlantic with 727-100s and, without digging out my old logs, I'm not sure if they didn't operate the ONA flights.
 
BBJII
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: B727 Etops?

Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:16 pm

ETOPS does apply to 727-100 but not ADV or 200.

Its due to the huge fuel flow issues if number 3 goes out.

I plan many VIP 727 across the pond and we have to consider ETOPS for our
100 version.

So to answer the next part....yes then can get across non-stop.

We do KLGB to EINN or KWER to MAINLAND EUROPE several times each month.

West Coast to mainland Europe can be done subject to winds, But not very often.
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
philb
Posts: 2645
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 5:53 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:28 am

BBJII,

That's interesting in the light of the 1960s experiences with very full charter 727s when ETOPS had never been thought of.

Many of us thought it was a bit of a walk on the wild side, especially the late Spring/early Autumn flights on Wardair via Stromfjord.

Is your ETOPS compliance voluntary or mandatory and how does that affect twin ops where the aircraft isn't owned by the user - for instance Net Jets flights?
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: B727 Etops?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:43 am

Most of those birds in VIP configuration are operated private, so as ETOPS is a rule, applied to commercial flights......
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting Philb (Reply 3):
B727-100s were used on regular trans Atlantic charter flights in the 1960s

Reeve Aleutian was flying to the Russian far east in their 727-100's before they went under.

Again, not a twin, not an issue.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
trex8
Posts: 4662
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: B727 Etops?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:39 am

IIRC the highest TO weight 727-200As were with Sterling who used them for charters from scandinavia etc to canaries etc.

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