ejmmsu
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MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:06 am

Quote taken from this article

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...trike_x.htm?csp=28&RM_Exclude=Juno

But the nation's fourth-largest carrier said it has been preparing for the strike for more than a year and a half. Last week Northwest said it has 1,200 such replacements and 300 maintenance managers available for day-to-day repairs. Meanwhile, Northwest negotiated contracts with third-party maintenance vendors, both in the United States and overseas, to take on more heavy overhaul and component repair work. Most of those vendors, including KLM, the Dutch carrier that has been Northwest's long-time alliance partner, already handle much of that work for Northwest.

As a result, the strike appeared to have little impact on Northwest's operations as of late Saturday morning. The airline's busiest airports reported only a handful of delays or cancellations.

At a news conference, company executives said their contingency plan was working "flawlessly," with very few cancellations and flights predominantly on time.

"We certainly don't expect delays to increase" as the strike progresses, said Andy Roberts, the carrier's vice president of operations. He said replacements were clearing up a backlog of minor maintenance issues and "the operation should continue to improve."

A union spokesman didn't immediately return a call seeking a response.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
B4REAL
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:08 am

I agree, we've seen weather do more damage than this!
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
Ralgha
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:12 am

Of course a maintenance strike won't affect much on the first day. What you think all their airplanes are going to break as soon as the mechanics walk out? It takes time for the maintenance problems to build up. There's no instant affect like a pilot or F/A strike.
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242
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:24 am

We'll see what happens a week from now.

The routine maintenance events can likely be taken care of by inexperienced workers, but the non-routine technical problems can cripple operations. It takes seven to ten years to become technically proficient on an aircraft type. I expect significant disruptions, even though management will downplay them as planned schedule changes.
 
TropicBird
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:27 am

It will take 7 to 10 days for maintenance issues at the airline to back up (deferred maint) and possibly become a liability. The 2 big questions here are how many MEL's will the FAA allow them to have and still meet skd departures and how will the pilots (and F/A's) feel about having these "scabs" fixing their aircraft. Who knows what their background and training is?

It is indeed amazing to me how much pilots will compromise the safety of their passengers and fellow crewmembers in this regard. It seems to me all this talk about the importance of "experienced" pilots and mechanics is just smoke and mirrors. The cost of the airfare and the need for a job overrule all common sense and decency anymore both to the passengers and employees alike. We get what we deserve here in the U.S.
 
wjcandee
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:33 am

Implicit in what NW is saying is that the replacements will end the "by the book" action that was already disrupting NW's operation. Too bad...maybe a bunch of allegedly-"minor" stuff was finally being fixed during that action rather than deferred. No wonder NW management is so gleeful to get the AMFA guys out of there.
 
aviationwiz
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:51 am

Let's also keep in mind that they rolled up the cutting of 15% of their flights because of the strike, to me, that's having an effect.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 4):
Who knows what their background and training is?

The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
aviationwiz
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 5):
Implicit in what NW is saying is that the replacements will end the "by the book" action that was already disrupting NW's operation. Too bad...maybe a bunch of allegedly-"minor" stuff was finally being fixed during that action rather than deferred.

Interesting... I wonder, exactly how far 'off the book' are these scabs going to go, compared to real NW mx in a normal day.
Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
 
242
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:01 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.

And that means...???

The DC9 isn't a very intuitive aircraft. You either know it's quirks or you don't. Those that have never maintained a complex machine may not get it, but a five year windows user can't become a Linux guru overnight. I think the DC9 fleet will suffer the most.
 
jjbiv
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:59 am

...and you don't think NW knows enough of the "quirks" of this long-lived fleet type to have trained the replacement mechanics as to how to handle said "quirks" nor that many of the replacements may have worked with the DC-9 or its derivatives before? The operation may not be perfect, but NW management has a vested interest in making sure that it runs and that the money keeps flowing in. AMFA didn't own the "golden key" to NW's fleet!

joe
 
AirWest
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:11 am

If the mechanical happens at an outstation, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Outside of hubs, few stations have NW AMFA mechanics, so local FBOs or maintenance companies are used.

Zach

[Edited 2005-08-20 23:15:25]
"And now I wish I was somewhere other than here"- JB
 
ual747den
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:15 am

Quoting 242 (Reply 9):
Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 7):
The replacement mechanics have at least 5 years experience each. The average experience is 14 years.

And that means...???

The DC9 isn't a very intuitive aircraft. You either know it's quirks or you don't. Those that have never maintained a complex machine may not get it, but a five year windows user can't become a Linux guru overnight. I think the DC9 fleet will suffer the most.

I think that your forgetting that the managers are still there also. They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem. Like mentioned the AMFA guys are not gods over the NW fleet. The replacements coming in are going to be MX from other airlines, a lot will have military experience and im sure that some will be from companies that only do outsourced MX. If there is anything that these guys don't quite understand there are lots of people around the world that NW can fly in to teach and help.

Its great now the union members that talk about how they don't care about the airline and if it fails are gone NW can get back to business as usual. It will be a little while to get the new guys completely up to par and get all the new contracts in to place but after that NW will have cut a substantial amount of money and there is no way that the AMFA guys would every be allowed back after some of the comments made.....

Good Job NW!!!
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
ikramerica
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:57 am

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 10):
...and you don't think NW knows enough of the "quirks" of this long-lived fleet type to have trained the replacement mechanics as to how to handle said "quirks" nor that many of the replacements may have worked with the DC-9 or its derivatives before?

No, don't you know? The management is always full of morons and the only people worth anything are the union workers at any company. Without union labor, all companies would fall apart and millions would die.  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:17 am

IKRAMERICA..post13....And let me add to that....... the tooth-fairy shows up tonight with money she fogot to pay you since you were a kid.......plus the interest.
 sarcastic  knowwhatImean?
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
dl757md
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:17 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem.

You obviously have never worked MX at an airline.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
I think that your forgetting that the managers are still there also. They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem. Like mentioned the AMFA guys are not gods over the NW fleet. The replacements coming in are going to be MX from other airlines, a lot will have military experience and im sure that some will be from companies that only do outsourced MX. If there is anything that these guys don't quite understand there are lots of people around the world that NW can fly in to teach and help.

Generally, most in maintenance management haven't touched an aircraft in years, and usually aren't that current on maintenance procedures, even though at one time they were. This knowledge comes from my twelve years working on aircraft for four different airlines.

UAL747DEN, please share with us some of your line maintenance experiences.
 
jjbiv
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:33 pm

I don't know if I'd give mx management that much credit (it's a long way from the office to the hangar floor for some,) but putting all the resources NW has assembled together, they should be able to run a solid operation in just a few days. I remember starting my first airline job; everything started coming together quickly when dealing with a live operation. Day by day, week by week, month by month, the situation at NW can only improve from the respectable showing put forth today.

joe
 
L-188
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:36 pm

The Union up here in Anchorage is claiming that managements claims that the schedual is intact is somewhat exagerated.

They say the airline switched to their lighter fall schedual, so there isn't as much pressure on the fleet.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
242
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:50 pm

Word has it that the replacement mechs have been grouped three ways:

Group A: Competent enough to work unsupervised and knowledgeable enough to troubleshoot problems on live aircraft in view of the flight crew and passengers.

Group B: Competent enough to work under direct supervision but are kept out of public view and instructed not to interact with flight crew.

Group C: Those only competent enough to assist group B.

[Edited 2005-08-21 05:58:36]
 
KarlB737
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:54 pm

Courtesy: WJLA-TV - Washington, D.C

Video Report:

http://www.wjla.com/abc7videopop.hrb...video.wjla.com/wjla/strike0820.wmv
 
dl757md
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 17):
Day by day, week by week, month by month, the situation at NW can only improve from the respectable showing put forth today.

Obviously the scabs will gain experience and NW management will find ways to deal with issues that come up, but to say that the situation will improve over what we saw today is very optimistic. The maintenance issues with their fleet will outpace their ability to keep up as time goes on. You can only defer items for so long and I don't care what aircraft, airline, or mechanic you are talking about you can't seamlessly replace an airlines entire AMT ranks overnight and expect to keep the operation going unaffected.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
FedEx
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:03 pm

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
They are the ones with more knowledge and know-how than anyone. They will be able to train the new guys and take care of the problems with no problem.


Have you ever heard the old airline maintenance saying that goes something like: "Those who can't fix, teach. Those who can't fix or teach, manage".

Now I have only worked for 4 different airlines at levels ranging from turning wrenches to upper management and back again over the last 10 years, and 3 of 4 have been non-union, but this saying has held a lot of truth everywhere I have worked at every level through my relative short tenure in Maintenance.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 1):
I agree, we've seen weather do more damage than this!

What did you expect? NW to shut down? sheesh.....

Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
Of course a maintenance strike won't affect much on the first day.

Yea, unfortunately for some of you, NW did not shut down all operations because of this strike....what a shame really.....  Yeah sure

Quoting 242 (Reply 3):
We'll see what happens a week from now.

Sorry to burst your bubble but NW will still be around.....

Quoting 242 (Reply 3):
I expect significant disruptions, even though management will downplay them as planned schedule changes.

Right and you are able to make these outrageous statements on what basis?????
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
cdfmxtech
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 1:44 pm

Quoting 242 (Reply 19):
Word has it that the replacement mechs have been grouped three ways:

Group A: Competent enough to work unsupervised and knowledgeable enough to troubleshoot problems on live aircraft in view of the flight crew and passengers.

Group B: Competent enough to work under direct supervision but are kept out of public view and instructed not to interact with flight crew.

Group C: Those only competent enough to assist group B.

Still laughing about this one!!! Big grin
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:50 pm

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 23):
Sorry to burst your bubble but NW will still be around.....

Yes, they will. Likely with an MEL/CDL count through the roof.

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 23):
Right and you are able to make these outrageous statements on what basis?????

Twelve years of line maintenance with four different airlines.

CORULEZ05, tell us about some of your line maintenance or airline operations experience.
 
UALdispatch
Posts: 47
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:54 pm

Well based on his profile he has vast experience as a student. A few classes in school will make you an expert in any field these days.
FLY UNITED AIRLINES AND THE FRIENDLY SKIES
 
Ralgha
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 23):
Quoting Ralgha (Reply 2):
Of course a maintenance strike won't affect much on the first day.

Yea, unfortunately for some of you, NW did not shut down all operations because of this strike....what a shame really..... Yeah sure

So, genius, what makes you think I was hoping for NW to shut down all operations?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:01 pm

Quoting 242 (Reply 25):
Twelve years of line maintenance with four different airlines.

Fantastic. Thanks for answering my question.

Quoting UALdispatch (Reply 26):
Well based on his profile he has vast experience as a student. A few classes in school will make you an expert in any field these days.

Funny enough I NEVER claimed to have ANY experience in that field. I mean, hell...if all of us around here NEEDED to have airline experience in order to post...anet would be one very very lonely place don't you think?

[Edited 2005-08-21 08:06:48]
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
242
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 28):
Funny enough I NEVER claimed to have ANY experience in that field. I mean, hell...if all of us around here NEEDED to have airline experience in order to post...anet would be one very very lonely place don't you think?

Yes, it would. Free flow of information should be encouraged, however you should consider the differences between informed opinion and uninformed opinion.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:34 pm

From CNN

As of late Saturday, the company claimed no significant strike-related disruptions. "The airline is running well. It's business as usual," Northwest chief executive Doug Steenland told Reuters earlier. He added that the contingency plan will allow for reliable operations for the "foreseeable future."

Another executive acknowledged, however, that Northwest has suspended its daily on-time performance report.


My question...If they don't report their on-time performance how can you really say what effect the strike is having on NW. The only thing you have is what management is saying. Hardly an impartial interpretation of what's going on.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
ikramerica
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:43 pm

Quoting 242 (Reply 19):
Word has it that the replacement mechs have been grouped three ways:

And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that with the striking workers, all of them were so experienced they could work unsupervised? That there were no junior mechanics and assistants and such? I've yet to see a company involving technicians, repair, maintenance etc. where everyone was from group A or B. If there were no Cs, then where do the new workers come from? The Group A fairy?

Sure, if the ratios were such that 1% were from group A and 90% from group C, there would be a problem. But considering how long NW has been working on this plan, I highly doubt that is the case.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:55 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that with the striking workers, all of them were so experienced they could work unsupervised? That there were no junior mechanics and assistants and such? I've yet to see a company involving technicians, repair, maintenance etc. where everyone was from group A or B. If there were no Cs, then where do the new workers come from? The Group A fairy?

NWA has already cut half of the mechanic workforce. The average age of the remaining workers is 51. It's likely that the most junior line mechanic has 20+ years of experience. There are no new workers.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:42 pm

What i say is what else does everybody expect NW to do? I mean it isn't profitable right now? They've got to do something, and drastic times call for drastic measures.

God nobody wants to be fired... but, if they can't afford to pay you, what's going to happen?
 
frequentflyer
Posts: 708
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:28 am

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 12):
Quoting 242 (Reply 9):

Its great now the union members that talk about how they don't care about the airline and if it fails are gone NW can get back to business as usual. It will be a little while to get the new guys completely up to par and get all the new contracts in to place but after that NW will have cut a substantial amount of money and there is no way that the AMFA guys would every be allowed back after some of the comments made.....

Good Job NW!!!


Hey UA: I concur. Not easy to have a strong contigency plan under the circumstances, I sympathize 100% with Management and replacement, as well as with the 89% who do not strike, so that NW withstands current events and offers continued service to their clients.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 33):
What i say is what else does everybody expect NW to do? I mean it isn't profitable right now? They've got to do something, and drastic times call for drastic measures.

God nobody wants to be fired... but, if they can't afford to pay you, what's going to happen?


Hi LH: some good, simple sensitive opinion. I agree, something needs to be done. Now and later.
Take off and live
 
c680
Posts: 428
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 20):
Courtesy: WJLA-TV - Washington, D.C

Video Report:

http://www.wjla.com/abc7videopop.hrb...0.wmv

Nice video report - especially for a local station on the weekend. They got their facts right and presented both sides of the story. I wish I could say the same for media where I am.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 4):
It is indeed amazing to me how much pilots will compromise the safety of their passengers and fellow crewmembers in this regard. It seems to me all this talk about the importance of "experienced" pilots and mechanics is just smoke and mirrors. The cost of the airfare and the need for a job overrule all common sense and decency anymore both to the passengers and employees alike. We get what we deserve here in the U.S.

Umm, sure, blame it on the pilots. Are we not forgetting that the MX crew, who is responsible for the "safe" MX of the aircraft, are the ones putting the "passengers and fellow crewmembers" in jeopardy by walking out??? Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you're mad at them for trying to keep the airline flying and they aren't out there picketing. Seems to me, "common sense" in this case would be the MX people taking a pay cut to ensure their jobs remain. If they don't like the pay, they are free to go elsewhere.
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
NWAFA
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:12 am

Bottom line folks, if the Capitan in charges does NOT feel the aircraft is safe and airworthy, he/she will NOT TAKE IT OUT.

As a crew member I have full trust in my pilot in command. There has only been one or two times in my years of lying that I have ever questioned a pilots decision. Once at Pan am and once at NWA (been about 10 years now).
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 37):
Bottom line folks, if the Capitan in charges does NOT feel the aircraft is safe and airworthy, he/she will NOT TAKE IT OUT

Agreed... Why would a Pilot take a jet out that he/feels unsafe in. Remember, he's ON it!!!
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:42 am

GuitrThree

People for get that..If I ever felt or feel unsafe I would get off so darn quick!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
LUVRSW
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:15 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting FedEx (Reply 22):
Have you ever heard the old airline maintenance saying that goes something like: "Those who can't fix, teach. Those who can't fix or teach, manage".

You nailed it FedEx, this applies to many careers, not just the airlines.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 38):
Agreed... Why would a Pilot take a jet out that he/feels unsafe in. Remember, he's ON it!!!

Have you ever heard of gethomitis? It's killed more than a few aircrew and their pax.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:05 am

What would Mexicana have to do with Northwest's strike? =P
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 41):
Have you ever heard of gethomitis? It's killed more than a few aircrew and their pax.

Yea,
it's a common factor in aircraft crashes, but almost exclusively to GA or corporate charter aircraft in Lear's or the like, and not large passenger operations like NW. Gethomeitis simply occurs when a Private pilot has to be home at work next day, or a corporate VP who insists that the Lear they chartered gets them to their next meeting on time.
I've yet to hear of once incident where a PAX complained so much that a large airliner left in an unsafe matter. I've also never heard of a large airliner pilot insisting to fly so he didn't have to spend another night in a hotel, paid for by the airline, along with some good meal allowance. So to say that NW pilots are flying in unsafe conditions like TropicBird said is just utter nonsense, and once again is just trying to spread the blame to someone else from the real group that is causing the MX issues, the striking MX Union members.
As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
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RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 43):
So to say that NW pilots are flying in unsafe conditions like TropicBird said is just utter nonsense

Did I say NW anywhere in MY post? I've had more than one Captain at work go to the chief pilot over my grounding his airplane when he wanted to get home. In each case I was found to be in the right (without a union to back me up) and have even received a letter of apology from one Captain. Get your head out of the sand. IT HAPPENS!

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
Derik737
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:53 am

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:51 am

Quoting NWAFA (Reply 37):
Bottom line folks, if the Capitan in charges does NOT feel the aircraft is safe and airworthy, he/she will NOT TAKE IT OUT.

Yes, you are correct. However, the captain doesn't know jack about what he/she can't see. If there are no holes visible, no tires shredded, no huge puddles of oil, hydraulic fluid or fuel all over the ramp and all discrepancies are signed off in the logbook (airworthiness release), then he/she will most likely feel the plane is safe.

I'm sure the Alaska Airlines MD-80 pilots flying flight 261 felt their plane was safe when they departed Puerto Vallarta. The same for Air Midwest 5481. How about AA 191 in ORD? That picture is still burned into my mind and I was just 10 at the time. Do you not think that the captain felt the aircraft was safe when they departed the gate?

Most pilots have no clue how the systems on their airplanes work. They just know that you flip this switch and an expected result should occur. It's the mechanic who knows these airplanes inside and out. Hence one of the reasons the professional FE position was created back in the day and also the reason the professional ones are worth $70K or more a year.

I think most people here don't understand how complex a commercial airplane really is. Being that I started my career on the Avionics side, I'm more of a electrical guy. I've got my A&P as well and now am in Engineering. I have great respect for all the fields of maintenance on an airplane. From sheet metal mechanics (the good ones are so damn impressive with what they can do), to the guy out there changing a tire or servicing oil (which it sounds like the NWA replacements took 4 hrs to do on a -9; normally a 45 minute job).

I'd like to see how many of these replacement mechanics could troubleshoot a an Autopilot Disconnect Light illuminating every time the stab is trimmed (with the Autopilot off). The signoff for that problem which I fixed is one of my most classic.

I have a feeling that the vendors NWA have signed contracts with are going to be pleasantly surprised at how much business they now will have with a higher than expected number of components being sent in to their shop with No Faults Found (Guys in the industry will catch my drift here). Unfortuately for NWA, the turn around times at these shops can't even come close to an internal shop (the vendors have other customers besides NWA). Maybe the stores guys are already spending countless hours on ILS right now.  

Hopefully NWA's contingency plans included an order for more MEL placards!!!

[Edited 2005-08-22 00:53:23]
 
GuitrThree
Posts: 1940
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:54 pm

RE: MX Strike Having Virtually No Effect On NW Ops

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 44):
Did I say NW anywhere in MY post? I've had more than one Captain at work go to the chief pilot over my grounding his airplane when he wanted to get home. In each case I was found to be in the right (without a union to back me up) and have even received a letter of apology from one Captain. Get your head out of the sand. IT HAPPENS!

So you have documented proof, like an NTSB report, that states a major airline had an aircraft crash due to a pilot flying an aircraft knowing beforehand it was unsafe? Quit patting yourself on the back.
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