wdleiser
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A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:52 am

Hey once again my friend and I are in an argument. Does the A330 have the option to have a middle landing gear and no airline has taken the option or is it not available. So, whats the deal with the A330 and possible landing gear in the middle. I mean we both know the A340 has it and the A340 and 330 have the same fuselage.
 
Newark777
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:53 am

Why would you want it? You obviously don't need it, and it would just add extra weight.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
lsgg
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:57 am

I don't know but maybe in very high density layout it could be useful Big grin
( I joke of course)
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lsgg
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:01 am

However it's an interesting question : Why does an A340 have a middle gear and the A330 not ?
It's a question of weight of course but as you said Wdleiser both aircrafts have the same fuselage...
A340 has 2 more engines, but is that all ?
Swissair forever !
 
EI321
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:05 am

The A340 has some slightly different wing structure to accomidate the different engine arrangment. Apart from the gear of course, its the only big difference I think.
 
Newark777
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:06 am

According to a.net stat page, MTOW of the A333 is about 212,000 kg. MTOW of the A343, on the other hand, is 260,000 kg. I'm guessing nearly 50,000 more kg is enough to justify the middle gear.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
wdleiser
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:07 am

Does the A330 have the option to have a 3rd Landing gear though?
 
lsgg
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 6):
Does the A330 have the option to have a 3rd Landing gear though?

I've never heard that...
Swissair forever !
 
planesailing
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:17 am

Yes in the long and short of it.

From a book I have called Giant Airliners and one of the pictures mentions about the middle gear that is optional on the A330. If it is not taken, there is a cover placed over where is should be, which is visable.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M Radzi Desa

 
Newark777
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:24 am

Yes in the long and short of it.

From a book I have called Giant Airliners and one of the pictures mentions about the middle gear that is optional on the A330. If it is not taken, there is a cover placed over where is should be, which is visable.


But what benefit would it have? Would it increase the MTOW? It can't be that great an advantage, since no one exercises that option.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
planesailing
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:28 am

The only thing I could possibly think of is for increased cycles, if the operator wanted to use the aircraft on short haul large pax routes.

This picture is slightly better for the cover:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP



It is the cover with the slit through the bottom 1/4 in the middle between the two main bogey covers.
 
lsgg
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 9):
But what benefit would it have?

Maybe the interest is that the weight of the a/c is better distributed, and so the runway is less worn at each landing...  scratchchin 
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Newark777
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:32 am

Maybe the interest is that the weight of the a/c is better distributed, and so the runway is less worn at each landing...

I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs.  Wink

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
planesailing
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:36 am

Im sticking with:

The only thing I could possibly think of is for increased cycles, if the operator wanted to use the aircraft on short haul large pax routes.
 
lsgg
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:38 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 12):
I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs.

Yes, you're probably right...  Smile


Anyway that would explain the success of the "option" ! Big grin
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vfw614
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:13 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 12):
I doubt airlines worry about runway wear when they order planes, especially if it will add to the weight of the plane, raising costs

Isn't it so that if you distribute the weight over a bigger number of wheels/gears, you can use runways with a lower PCN ?
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:23 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 5):
MTOW of the A333 is about 212,000 kg. MTOW of the A343, on the other hand, is 260,000 kg. I'm guessing nearly 50,000 more kg is enough to justify the middle gear.

How come the MTOW of the A343 is so much higher than the A333 if the fuselages are the same length?
 
Newark777
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:33 am

How come the MTOW of the A343 is so much higher than the A333 if the fuselages are the same length?

Probably because of the extra two engines. You can lift more if you have more thrust.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
trex8
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:39 am

the A340 also can carry about 50000 liters more fuel!
related thread at tech/ops A330/340 Landing Gear (by Trex8 Aug 8 2005 in Tech Ops)
 
planesailing
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 17):
Probably because of the extra two engines. You can lift more if you have more thrust.

Not sure if that is the case, the A330-300 compared to the A340-300 has more thrust capability, by at least 5,000lb.

However, twins need more power for a given weight for engine out on takeoff performance.
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:55 am

The A340 is used for longer length routes generally, that means more fuel, and probably also more cargo for both passengers and commercial cargo. Plus, 4 engines will weight more than. Unless the A330 is used in a configuation of high weight, it apparantley doesn't need the middle gear.

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 15):
Isn't it so that if you distribute the weight over a bigger number of wheels/gears, you can use runways with a lower PCN ?

That is an interesting idea. Especially if you are in the odd situation of being an airline with a homebase at a low PCN airport.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 8:59 am

So simply because of more fuel for longer range?
 
pawsleykat
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:16 am

IF the 330 had the missle landing gear, it wouldn't be an A330, it would be an A340 "wote" aircraft. (With only two engines) So, no, I don't think so. But I know the share the same fueslage section. So can the A330 be fitted with middle landing gear? ?:-(
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CanadianNorth
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:23 am

Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 22):
IF the 330 had the missle landing gear, it wouldn't be an A330, it would be an A340 "wote" aircraft. (With only two engines)

I'd call it an A335... half way between a 330 and a 340... so it wouldn't really be either...



CanadianNorth
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trex8
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:29 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 21):
So simply because of more fuel for longer range?

well strictly its weight, MTOW for a A343 is 275 tonnes, for a A333 its max at 233, At 233 tonnes the A330 landing gear is probably close to being maxed out in weight bearing capacity thus the extra center leg for the A343
 
dan2002
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:33 am

Quoting Pawsleykat (Reply 22):
IF the 330 had the missle landing gear

That would be a sight, is it related to the 767s with missile pods on them?

-dan
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Jet-lagged
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Dan2002 (Reply 25):
That would be a sight, is it related to the 767s with missile pods on them?

Maybe some kind of hyperturbolifterboost for aborted landings.

cheers
 
trex8
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:14 pm

Its the Starfleet warp drive power module.
 
Qantas744er
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:53 pm

Ive seen a 340-300 without the center landing gear, i think it was the airbus prototype. Does anyone know why they removed it?


Cheers Leo
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planesailing
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:56 pm

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 28):
Ive seen a 340-300 without the center landing gear, i think it was the airbus prototype. Does anyone know why they removed it?

The centre gear can remain stowed for a weight penalty.
 
jorge1812
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 28):
Ive seen a 340-300 without the center landing gear, i think it was the airbus prototype. Does anyone know why they removed it?

There's a pic of an Canthay A-340 in the database without the center gear. I think it was taken at HKG.

Georg.
 
buckfifty
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:48 am

The centre gear's only purpose is to support a higher ramp and takeoff weight, but not landing weight. During landing, the centre gear is not a structural bearing item, and thus the landing weight remains the same centre gear up or down.

There are no additional benefits to having a centre gear, and thus there are no 330's that carry them.
 
JDD1
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:20 am

Planesailing I think your book is wrong (unless it is from Airbus). To my knowledge there is no option for a centre MLG on the A330.

The A330-300 has the same fuselage length as the A340-300, BUT the A340 has a centre wing tank.

The A330-200 also has a centre wing tank but the fuselage is shorter. Both A330s have the same MTOW ie up to 233t.

The A340-300 MTOW is up to 276.5t
 
c680
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Buckfifty (Reply 31):
During landing, the centre gear is not a structural bearing item, and thus the landing weight remains the same centre gear up or down.

Ahhhh. Very informative. I assume the following is true:

The center gear does add some drag (helpful for landing configuration) but if it is not required for landing, the main reason that it is lowered for landing is because there is no easy way to lower the center gear once the aircraft is on the ground. You will need that center gear down to re-load the aircraft past the weight limit for "center gear not down."

Correct?
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ACdreamliner
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RE: A330 Middle Gear Available?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:51 am

remember the A340 has more range than the A330 so it will need more fuel, thus alot more weight!
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