georgiabill
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Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:36 pm

I have read a few threads which eluded to the fact SAA might not be happy with the performance of their A345's? If this is the case do you think SAA might consider buying the 773ER or 747ADV? Also could the 787 be in SAA's future?
 
TheSonntag
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:42 pm

I think they will not buy the 747 ADV or the 777ER. The A340 suits their needs, and they might even order the A380 soon.

But they might ask Boeing for these airframes in order to get a better price from Airbus.

I am tired of reading rumours that airlines are unhappy with their A340s. It might be that there are problems, but if it was a bad airplane, LH had not ordered more, neither had Virgin. And even if they are unhappy, remember that SAA even uses A340-200s which they got from LH, an airplane which almost nobody else uses, so it is very doubtful for me that they will use something else...

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kc135topboom
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:44 pm

They may have a few options here. SAA could, as you suggest consider buying the B-777-300ER to replace the A-340-500s. But, I really don't see them stepping up all the way to a B-747-ADV for the A-340-500 replacement aircraft. They might consider the B-787 as the A-340-500 replacement, too. The other option that is available is to work with Airbus to fix what isn't right for them with the A-340-500s
 
egnr
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
They may have a few options here. SAA could, as you suggest consider buying the B-777-300ER to replace the A-340-500s. But, I really don't see them stepping up all the way to a B-747-ADV for the A-340-500 replacement aircraft. They might consider the B-787 as the A-340-500 replacement, too. The other option that is available is to work with Airbus to fix what isn't right for them with the A-340-500s

SAA operate the A342, A343 and A346. Not an A345 to be found in their fleet.
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:50 pm

SAA operates the 346, not the 345.

SAA has already placed and cancelled one order for the 772. I read somewhere that they wanted a 4-engine type for hot-and-high Johannesburg, so I doubt they will order the 773.
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GDB
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:51 pm

At LHR you have 3 SAA 747's a day in here, though sometimes you do see the A340-200.
Since they are slot limited, since pax levels between the UK and South Africa are so strong (they are on BA too), I'd say A380 has a better then even chance here, when SAA come to order.
 
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garpd
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:52 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
I am tired of reading rumours that airlines are unhappy with their A340s. It might be that there are problems, but if it was a bad airplane, LH had not ordered more, neither had Virgin. And even if they are unhappy, remember that SAA even uses A340-200s which they got from LH, an airplane which almost nobody else uses, so it is very doubtful for me that they will use something else...

Airlines ordering more aicraft is not neccessarily a sign that they are totaly happy with it. Its more likely that the expense of changing to another fleet type is more expensive that continuing with the one you have.

For example: A recent Flight International article highlighted quite a few problems with the aircraft and Virgins dissatisfaction with it as it was not what Airbus said it would be.
But as VS were now committed to it, there's not much sense in swapping to another type.

Also, I have it on good authority that LH will not have to pay for 2 of the A346s in their second batch. As VS will not pay for 4 or 5 of the additional 26 they ordered. Whether or not this is true I cannot say... and before anyone jumps me, there is no evidence against it either.
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United Airline
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:53 pm

Do they really need the A 380?

Umm..... I would say they might consider the B 747 Advanced.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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garpd
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:56 pm

IIRC, LHR is the only real slot restricted airport SAA operate to.
And they already have the slots they need.

Would it make sense to purchase the A380 when its potential use would be for only one route?
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egnr
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:00 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 7):
Do they really need the A 380?

Umm..... I would say they might consider the B 747 Advanced.

Yes they do need the A380. The 747 Advanced would not deliver the incremental capacity increase that SAA need on their key slot-restricted routes.

As various other people on this board have said time and again, the loads on the UK - South Africa flights are very high, and as SAA cannot secure additional slots at Heathrow, the only way to grow is with a larger aircraft. The A380 is the only aircraft available, or likely to be available in the near future, that delivers a worthwhile capacity increase for SAA.

Who knows, maybe SAA would consider the 747A for other routes... but at the moment, the airline seems to be embarking on a policy of switching over to an all-Airbus fleet... although things can and do change. Plus, SAA's fleet planning has an unusual history - witness the A320s to B738 to A320 debacle.
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SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:21 pm

Quoting EGNR (Reply 9):
The A380 is the only aircraft available, or likely to be available in the near future, that delivers a worthwhile capacity increase for SAA.

Who knows, maybe SAA would consider the 747A for other routes... but at the moment, the airline seems to be embarking on a policy of switching over to an all-Airbus fleet... although things can and do change. Plus, SAA's fleet planning has an unusual history - witness the A320s to B738 to A320 debacle.

IIRC SA Management has hinted their desire to lease A380's and expressed interest in the B787. At this stage, IMHO they should rather concentrate on making serious money first and stop wasting our tax money.

SAA will not operate an all Airbus-fleet in the near future. The B744's are quite busy and are used to LHR, IAD, LOS, LAD and CPT (domestic flights). The 738's will also be on South African soil for quite a while, as the A320 order has been cancelled.

As I have said on this forum before, never use the word "NEVER" when you are talking about SAA. It is a government owned airline and politicians can be extremely fickle.


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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:35 pm

How much are they still trying to adhere to the all-airbus policy? (Well it's not a policy, more of a commonality drive I guess)

If they are, I would've thought that new Boeing heavies aren't likely to be seen in the SA livery.
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:59 pm

I think that SAA should go for 4 A380's to do the LHR route. They may even purchase a few 773ER's, but I feel that there next big buy will be the 787-8. It would suite SAA's needs perfectly. Its a mid to long range aircraft which is fuel efficient and can hold just the right amount of PAX for just about all of their international destinations. It would also provide them with the possibility of adding more flights to South Asia, North America, and Europe.

Possible future fleet (long hall)  Wink
A380-800 4
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JAM747
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
SAA has already placed and cancelled one order for the 772. I read somewhere that they wanted a 4-engine type for hot-and-high Johannesburg, so I doubt they will order the 773.

I have heard this before. Why does the A340 have the hot and high advantage ? is it because of the engine type? I think one of the reaons SAA started to switch from 747s to A340 was because of this also.
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:04 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 11):
How much are they still trying to adhere to the all-airbus policy?

Well if they are even looking or thinking about the B787, their commonality pitch is out the window. The flavor of the moment however, being their appeal against the Competition Commissions fine of R45 million (Rand) for commissions they paid to travel agents, etc.


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TheSonntag
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 13):
I have heard this before. Why does the A340 have the hot and high advantage ? is it because of the engine type? I think one of the reaons SAA started to switch from 747s to A340 was because of this also.

It is because the A340-300 has the best climb rate of all airliners around Big grin

I don't know, but didn't one 777 blow an engine while they did a presentation for SAA some years ago?

Michael
 
SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 13):
I have heard this before. Why does the A340 have the hot and high advantage ? is it because of the engine type? I think one of the reaons SAA started to switch from 747s to A340 was because of this also.

Both A + B were in JNB pitching their products to replace SA's Classic longhaul fleet (74L's, 742's and 743's). IIRC the 777 blew an engine, Airbus swooped in with an amazing sweet deal and we as ordinary taxpayers learned about the switch to an all Airbus fleet on the front pages of the morning newspapers.

Want more info about how the SA Airbus fleet is doing in South Africa? Just ask fellow member Gigneil, he will be able to tell you in detail.  Smile


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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 13):
Why does the A340 have the hot and high advantage ?

Does it? What's the performance out of JNB like? Is this the reason some of their transatlantic flights route through CPT?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747

Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:42 am

>> I don't know, but didn't one 777 blow an engine while they did a presentation for SAA some years ago?

An engine failed while taxing off the runway. Not an impressive display by any means.

SAA even had the 772ER on order at one point, but when the PW4098 engine showed major fuel burn shortcomings, the order was cancelled.

>> IIRC the 777 blew an engine, Airbus swooped in with an amazing sweet deal

The engine failure did not give Airbus window of opportunity if that's what you are suggesting. The real opportunity came when Boeing was unable to get them to keep their PW-powered 777 commitment. The engine failure was simply bad PR, like the A346 prototype suffering a brake disentigration.

>> I have heard this before. Why does the A340 have the hot and high advantage ? is it because of the engine type?

When the 773ER was early in it's conceptual phase (still the 777-X), Boeing was struggling very much with the problem of take-off performance. It was questionable if Boeing would really get super-high thrust engines in the 110-120 klbf range, which meant options such as a thrust-providing APU were considered. Airlines balked at that for obvious reasons.

Boeing was able to compensate for this problem via an innovative "semi-levered" landing gear. A hydraulic actuator allows the airplane to ride the landing gear in a way that raises the angle of attack, allowing the wings to produce more lift.



In the end, Boeing was able to get engines of adequet thrust, and with the semi-levered landing gear, the 773ER is on par with other longhaul airplanes. The A346 does slightly beat the 773ER in take-off performance, though the possibility of a GE90-115B uprate (which is within the demonstrated capability of the engine) would negate this advantage, if a customer so desired it.
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:19 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 8):
Would it make sense to purchase the A380 when its potential use would be for only one route?

Current JNB-LHR and CPT-LHR services involve six aircraft, so it would make sense to order the A380 for the London hops exclusively.


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AirRyan
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 1):
But they might ask Boeing for these airframes in order to get a better price from Airbus.

OR dare to imagine that they ask Boeing for a price and actually buy Boeing?!  crazy  (OH wait, then that would assume A isn't as good as B and then where would we be?!)  hissyfit 

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
The A346 does slightly beat the 773ER in take-off performance, though the possibility of a GE90-115B uprate (which is within the demonstrated capability of the engine) would negate this advantage, if a customer so desired it.

And does it all on two less engines - marvel the concept!  highfive  Still, with the 773ER's max thrust of 230,600 lbs. to the A346's 224,500lbs., a longer wingspan and slightly lower MTOW, I don't see any advantage for the A346. What do you base your assertations from?

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
It is because the A340-300 has the best climb rate of all airliners around

With just 4 CFM-56's... I'm not buying that. I think a 717 might have something to say about that to name just a few.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
I don't know, but didn't one 777 blow an engine while they did a presentation for SAA some years ago?

Sounds to me why Boeing has gone (GE) engine specific on their latest 777 variants.
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:30 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 20):
OH wait, then that would assume A isn't as good as B and then where would we be?

What an unnecessary comment...  thumbsdown 

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 20):
With just 4 CFM-56's... I'm not buying that. I think a 717 might have something to say about that to name just a few.

It was a joke...  Yeah sure


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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 19):
Current JNB-LHR and CPT-LHR services involve six aircraft, so it would make sense to order the A380 for the London hops exclusively.

How do you know SAA would prefer capacity over frequency?
Or are you proposong they'll replace the 6 current aircraft with 6 A380s, effectivley doubling the capacity?
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Leskova
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 22):
How do you know SAA would prefer capacity over frequency?

Quite a simple reason: frequency is simply not an option, the bilaterals between South Africa and the UK, not to mention slots at LHR, are maxed out.

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Udo
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 22):
How do you know SAA would prefer capacity over frequency?

They would prefer more frequencies any day, but tell me how to realize that in Heathrow?

Quoting GARPD (Reply 22):
Or are you proposong they'll replace the 6 current aircraft with 6 A380s, effectivley doubling the capacity?

Compared to their current B744 layout it would not be a doubling. However, the significant capacity growth would be required in some years when they can't get new slots.


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Leskova
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 20):
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
The A346 does slightly beat the 773ER in take-off performance, though the possibility of a GE90-115B uprate (which is within the demonstrated capability of the engine) would negate this advantage, if a customer so desired it.

And does it all on two less engines - marvel the concept! Still, with the 773ER's max thrust of 230,600 lbs. to the A346's 224,500lbs., a longer wingspan and slightly lower MTOW, I don't see any advantage for the A346. What do you base your assertations from?

It has to do with safety: in the event of an engine failure, the A340-600 still has, using your numbers, 168,375lbs available, while the B777-300ER is down to 115,300lbs. Both not good, especially in JNB's hot-and-high climate, but 168klbs still beats 115klbs.

However unlikely this situation is, it's something that has to be taken into account; I've seen B747-400s, B777-200s, A330-200s and A340-300/600s (not to mention narrowbodies) struggle to get airborne on "warm" evenings in Jo'burg, with the temperature hovering around 30 degrees Celsius... at 1,694m (5,557ft) above sea-level, it sure is an airport that takes a toll on performance.

Regards,
Frank
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SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 19):
Current JNB-LHR and CPT-LHR services involve six aircraft, so it would make sense to order the A380 for the London hops exclusively.

Maybe to some extent Udo (I may be way off course here). I honestly don't know what the average load factor on SA's LHR flights are, it must be good if they are seeking extra landing slots at LHR. If so, then the A380 might make some sense.

HOWEVER: If there really is a shortage of "non-stop" seats overall (BA, SA and VS) on the JNB-LHR-JNB route, why is VS not boosting capacity with their A346 or B744? VS comes up with the cheapest fares time and again and as we all know, pax these days are not price elastic.

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 17):
Does it? What's the performance out of JNB like? Is this the reason some of their transatlantic flights route through CPT?

No transatlantic flights are currently flying out of CPT. SA used to fly JNB-ATL via CPT and SID ± 3x weekly, however that routing has been suspended and all flights to the US now leaves directly from JNB via SID to ATL. JNB-IAD via ACC and JNB-JFK via DKR.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 18):
The engine failure did not give Airbus window of opportunity if that's what you are suggesting. The real opportunity came when Boeing was unable to get them to keep their PW-powered 777 commitment. The engine failure was simply bad PR, like the A346 prototype suffering a brake disentigration.

I agree with the bad PR. However, to this day it remains a mystery to me how Airbus got the deal for an entire fleet renovation. The RFP was to replace the Classic longhaul fleet, not shorthaul.

Quoting GARPD (Reply 22):
How do you know SAA would prefer capacity over frequency?
Or are you proposong they'll replace the 6 current aircraft with 6 A380s, effectivley doubling the capacity?

Because they have expressed interest in the A380. It does not have to be 6x A380's - IMHO that would be a major dumping of seats which would not necessarily be a good thing if they are not able to fill those birds. However, nothing stops them from using a mixture of A380's and B744's on the route. For instance; one SA JNB-LHR flight operated by an A380, whilst the other flight is operated by a B744.


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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
I honestly don't know what the average load factor on SA's LHR flights are, it must be good if they are seeking extra landing slots at LHR. If so, then the A380 might make some sense.

I remember trying to get a last minute ticket at LHR for JNB and I was told SA didn't have a single free seat for the next 3 months. Unless they were lying to me (I'm sure it's possible) then that's some high load factors!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if SA ends up with a few A380s, even if it is exclusively on the LHR route.
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
VS comes up with the cheapest fares time and again and as we all know, pax these days are not price elastic

Mere speculation but I believe that the route has a lot of business and regular travellers and so perhaps related to freq flyer miles? SA nationals may build up a lot of miles internally as well and I don't know how extensive the VS/Nationwide partnership is. Despite the price, VS may effectively be offering an inferior product. Just a wild guess though!
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
HOWEVER: If there really is a shortage of "non-stop" seats overall (BA, SA and VS) on the JNB-LHR-JNB route, why is VS not boosting capacity with their A346 or B744? VS comes up with the cheapest fares time and again and as we all know, pax these days are not price elastic.

I guess VS suffers from not having the feed like BA or SA. That's also one reason why the LHR-HKG-SYD route is not doing well.
Btw, VS has always upgraded to B744 to JNB in the last years during the winter.


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Udo
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SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 27):
I remember trying to get a last minute ticket at LHR for JNB and I was told SA didn't have a single free seat for the next 3 months. Unless they were lying to me (I'm sure it's possible) then that's some high load factors!

That would depend on the season you were travelling in. With regards to the 3 months, that seems a tad over the top. I believe they were lying to you.


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SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 29):
I guess VS suffers from not having the feed like BA or SA.



Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 28):
SA nationals may build up a lot of miles internally as well and I don't know how extensive the VS/Nationwide partnership is

VS is now codesharing with SA and is part of SAA's Voyager FF program. The relationship with CE has ended.

http://ww4.flysaa.com/en/en_content_...a_partners_affiliates_content.html

Quoting Udo (Reply 29):
Btw, VS has always upgraded to B744 to JNB in the last years during the winter.

I am aware of that Udo, thanks. It is during summer in the Southern hemisphere.


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SA7700
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 31):
VS is now codesharing with SA and is part of SAA's Voyager FF program. The relationship with CE has ended

Thanks for the info SA7700. It's easy to get out of touch with these things...
 
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):

Because they have expressed interest in the A380. It does not have to be 6x A380's - IMHO that would be a major dumping of seats which would not necessarily be a good thing if they are not able to fill those birds. However, nothing stops them from using a mixture of A380's and B744's on the route. For instance; one SA JNB-LHR flight operated by an A380, whilst the other flight is operated by a B744.

Great answer.... just what I was looking for, cheers
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United Airline
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:13 am

I suppose the B 744s will be in service for long time to come....
 
AirRyan
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RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:07 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 21):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 20):
OH wait, then that would assume A isn't as good as B and then where would we be?

What an unnecessary comment...

My apologies, I forgot the sarcastic  Wink

Quoting Udo (Reply 21):
Quoting AirRyan (Reply 20):
With just 4 CFM-56's... I'm not buying that. I think a 717 might have something to say about that to name just a few.


It was a joke...

Yeah, and I could tell that through the way you spelled the words! I was going to say, Airbus have some the slowest climbing airliners I have seen. There are stories of A321's being routed nearly into Mexico from SOCAL because of their slow climb rates.

Quoting Leskova (Reply 25):
It has to do with safety: in the event of an engine failure, the A340-600 still has, using your numbers, 168,375lbs available, while the B777-300ER is down to 115,300lbs. Both not good, especially in JNB's hot-and-high climate, but 168klbs still beats 115klbs.

I see your point and it is no doubt a valid one but might I subject that if that was a really significant factor than the 777 wouldn't be selling quite as well as it has. When you weigh into the much more frequent savings gained via maintenance I would think that a large twin like the 777 has to offer advantages over 4 smaller engines.

Quoting Udo (Reply 24):
Quoting GARPD (Reply 22):
Or are you proposong they'll replace the 6 current aircraft with 6 A380s, effectivley doubling the capacity?

Compared to their current B744 layout it would not be a doubling. However, the significant capacity growth would be required in some years when they can't get new slots.

High density (cargo or PAX) routes is the only place where the A380 will be successful.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
However, nothing stops them from using a mixture of A380's and B744's on the route.

A safe compromise but if Boeing announces the 747ADV as expected that may prove to be the wisest business decision.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 34):
I suppose the B 744s will be in service for long time to come....

Maybe even longer if they offer an upgrade for 744's using 747ADV parts sort of like how Boeing/McDD made upgraded DC-10's to MD-10 standards.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 35):
Quoting Leskova (Reply 25):
It has to do with safety: in the event of an engine failure, the A340-600 still has, using your numbers, 168,375lbs available, while the B777-300ER is down to 115,300lbs. Both not good, especially in JNB's hot-and-high climate, but 168klbs still beats 115klbs.

I see your point and it is no doubt a valid one but might I subject that if that was a really significant factor than the 777 wouldn't be selling quite as well as it has. When you weigh into the much more frequent savings gained via maintenance I would think that a large twin like the 777 has to offer advantages over 4 smaller engines.

It is a factor, and it is a significant one, even if only in some scenarios; it is (or was? not sure if that's been changed already) also a factor in Himalaya crossings, in which engine-out scenarios are taken into account. The simple point here is that planning does not take place based on "what'll happen every day", but based on "what could go wrong" - no doubt that a twin, not just the B777, offers advantage, but the "lose one engine and you lose 50% of the available thrust"-factor remains.

And this is one of the few remaining scenarios in which a quad is better than a twin. Of course, that advantage goes out the window as soon as two engines fail on a quad.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 35):
Quoting SA7700 (Reply 26):
However, nothing stops them from using a mixture of A380's and B744's on the route.

A safe compromise but if Boeing announces the 747ADV as expected that may prove to be the wisest business decision.

The B747Adv, most likely, won't be considered by SAA until their B747-400s are too old to be flown profitably: the groth in pax between the -400 and the Adv is just too small to have much of an influence, so using the -400s for the time being will, most likely, have far more benefits than exchanging them for B747Advs.

By the way, AirRyan, too bad you once again chose to put some quite unnecessary remarks into your post - as you've proven by the remarks that I've responded to here you actually are quite capable of commenting, or asking, without attacking others... would be nice if you could convert more to this type of comments...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 5:16 pm

RE: Will South African Consider The 773ER And 747 ADV?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:53 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 35):
There are stories of A321's being routed nearly into Mexico from SOCAL because of their slow climb rates.

Would be interesting to hear more details of these "stories"...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...

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