flydubai
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:35 am

Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:44 am

Emirates, the Dubai based airline is currently one of the world’s fastest growing airlines with a fleet of over 70 aircraft and a massive expansion pack. It currently seems very unlikely that they could go under, but EK have ordered almost 100 wide body aircraft including 43 passenger A380 jets and many people say this is simply too many.

If so what are the future consequences for EK?
Is bankruptcy a possibility?

Hamzah
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:47 am

Its strange how the carriers in that part of the world seem to be expanding VERY FAST.

During my first a.net meet last april, i had never heard of Eithad. First i knew of em was a big sign saying they were coming soon. Now look, they have ordered A380's and alot of other heavy jets
Where does the time go???
 
Lumberton
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:00 am

If the rumors are correct, another large order for A350's is expected at the Dubai Air Show.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Lumberton
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 2):
If the rumors are correct, another large order for A350's is expected at the Dubai Air Show.

Please modify my previous post to a "rumored large wide body order". Just realized that my previous post could be flame bait.  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
lhrmaccoll
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:08 am

Hmm and you ask yourself where the money is coming from?
Government. They are sitting on a massive oil field, so finance isn't a problem, neither is the 'oil prices' that you hear of. The whole of the UAE is funded off oil money, there is no way they will be facing financial crisis, they are too profitable in their current position.
Alex
 
flydubai
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting Lhrmaccoll (Reply 4):
They are sitting on a massive oil field, so finance isn't a problem

Dubai's oil will run out in the next 20 years and are not sitting on a 'massive' oil field. It’s relatively small compared with Abu Dhabi's.

Hamzah
 
Lumberton
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Flydubai (Reply 5):
Dubai's oil will run out in the next 20 years and are not sitting on a 'massive' oil field. It’s relatively small compared with Abu Dhabi's.

Hamzah

Hamzah:
Everything I've read supports what you noted in your post and EK is adamant that they do not get cheap oil. Having said that, they must have one h*ll of a business plan! I realize that this has been discussed "ad nauseam", but the big question remains: what will the competition do when they try to dump all this capacity on the market?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
georgiaame
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:40 am

Yes they can go bankrupt, same way Saudi Arabia can run out of oil.

I'm in complete agreement with Lhrmaccoll

These are mini fiefdoms, with more money than God, trying to enter the 20th century using high tech toys to do so. I would say the analogy would be a KLM or the old Swissair during the 1950s, essentially huge international only carriers based in a postage stamp sized countries with no real need for internal air service. And they did a very good job at it for a long time, until international economic realities changed, and alas, so did the airlines. Just how many oil executives need transport in an A-380 on a daily basis for the foreseeable future? How many tourists are going to be attracted to the beaches of politically unstable Gulf States with a potential terrorist lurking behind every oil storage tank? How many Indians need to be transported between London or NYC via a non Indian carrier? Answer: time will tell. I think the real question should be, could an EK actually turn out to be a viable airline for the long run rather than how many airplanes can they buy? My gut feeling is no. And until they are willing to fly to the real economic powerhouse in the region, Israel, I have no need to fly with them.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
yul332LX
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:40 am

According to Goldman Sachs, EK makes the same returns as the European carriers on prices 45% lower.

A lot of airlines will go bankrupt before EK...
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:49 am

State supported airlines do not last. This is being discussed here (Don't want to blow my own trumpet!):
Hard Times: US Vs European Approaches (by ZSOFN Aug 21 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Flydubai (Reply 5):
Dubai's oil will run out in the next 20 years and are not sitting on a 'massive' oil field. It’s relatively small compared with Abu Dhabi's.

Aren't both these cities in the same country. Therefore how could oil in one city run out before the others. Jeez.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Aren't both these cities in the same country. Therefore how could oil in one city run out before the others. Jeez.

The UAE is made up of 7 "Emirates" which are seperate administrative regions. I don't know quite how autonomous they are though.

Quote:
7 emirates (imarat, singular - imarah); Abu Zaby (Abu Dhabi), 'Ajman, Al Fujayrah, Ash Shariqah (Sharjah), Dubayy (Dubai), Ra's al Khaymah, Umm al Qaywayn

-from the CIA website

And Wikipedia

[Edited 2005-08-22 00:04:19]
 
BA
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:03 am

Oil and natural gas exports account for only 30% of the United Arab Emirates' GDP and it is getting less and less year by year as the country develops its tourism and investment industry. They have never been a major oil exporter like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are (and Iraq once was).

Only time will tell the fate of Emirates and the other booming gulf carriers, however to say that oil is funding all these carriers and that once oil runs out, these gulf states will go back to being bedouins is a very innaccurate and black and white forcast..

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Aren't both these cities in the same country. Therefore how could oil in one city run out before the others. Jeez.

Yes, but they are each in their own emirate (state) and each have a very high degree of autonomy. Infact, the emirate of Abu Dhabi and the emirate of Dubai compete with eachother very heavily.



As FlyDubai said, the Dubai's oil reserves are very minimal and are expected to run out by 2016. Having said that also, they export very little of it. They mostly use it to supply themselves. Abu Dhabi is the oil powerhouse in the country and is responsible for sharing its oil with the rest of the emirates and also at the same time, exports it.

Dubai however, does have large natural gas reserves.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:04 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 11):
I don't know quite how autonomous they are though.

They are very autonomous, especially Dubai which has a tendency to bend the rules...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting BA (Reply 12):

I see - good informative post that!
 
flydubai
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:11 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Aren't both these cities in the same country. Therefore how could oil in one city run out before the others. Jeez.

Dubai and Abu Dhabi are both states which are very independent; however all seven states of the UAE are ruled by a supreme council if that's what you mean.

Hamzah
 
flydubai
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:00 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
could an EK actually turn out to be a viable airline for the long run rather than how many airplanes can they buy?

Good question.

Hamzah  Smile
 
ExPedia
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 10:37 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:10 am

I believe that EK and many other "3rd country" carriers servicing Europe in the West and Asia/Pacific in the East stand to have tremendous futures - although CAX outpacing demand has killed many companies, and not just airlines so nothing is certain.

Why? China.

More than 1b people looking to go somewhere, and only now being able to do so. EK strikes me as being just about as well positioned to service this new business as anyone.

[Edited 2005-08-22 01:32:28]
-- ExPedia
 
hz747300
Posts: 1911
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:17 am

I don't know if they will go bankrupt, but there is not enough room for that much capacity on the market, prices would have to become dirt, dirt cheap. Yields would drop dramatically.

For a long time, Saudi Arabian Airlines, then Saudia, was the glutonous airline of the Gulf. I remember taking several 747 flights from the Kingdom to various points in Africa and the JFK flight with no more than 30 or so people. Now in the summer, the JFK was always full. I think the realities of the business caught up to Saudia, and when my Dad went back to work for them (1999-2005), they had changed to a more smartly run airline--no more overcapacity, planes actually left on time (there's a thought!), and routes that make much more sense.

I still don't know how they are going to place 40 (I assume 3 operational spares) on the network. I understand in the technical sense replacing two 772 flights with one A380, but to use them as additional capacity--that's going to be interesting to watch.
Keep on truckin'...
 
kaitak744
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:18 am

Well, to simplify things, their future fleet (if the A350 order goes through) will be:

40+ A350-long thin routes or short haul
10+ 777-200LR-long thin routes
30+ 777-300ER-long medium routes
45 A380-long high capacity routes
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12422
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:27 am

I would say they are at far less risk of bankruptcy than most other airlines. For one thing that EK won't have to worry about is something that affects almost all airlines - financing costs. In effect EK's aircraft are being purchased for cash, so the costs of leasing overhead, financing and interest costs that other airlines have to pay, doesn't exist for them, something rare for the industry. With very modern fleets, they also save on MX costs. Yes, they may overexpand their capacity, run into MX, safety and security issues as well as political and economic situations and so on that may affect them in the long run, but not for many years.
 
GEnxPower
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:08 am

Thanks for the info BA. Informative.

Just a quick question. I know EK ordered 40+ A380's, but I also heard they leased 2 passenger A380's from ILFC. Is that right? Can someone confirm it?

Now, why would EK want to do that when they are going to have 45 of their own? Is it to get delivery earlier? Thanks for answering, guys.
 
flydubai
Posts: 157
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:37 pm

Quoting GEnxPower (Reply 21):
Just a quick question. I know EK ordered 40+ A380's, but I also heard they leased 2 passenger A380's from ILFC. Is that right?

Its right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates

Hamzah
 
Udo
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:54 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
Just how many oil executives need transport in an A-380 on a daily basis for the foreseeable future?

Oh I didn't know EK ordered 45 A380 for transporting oil executives...thanks for the update!

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
How many tourists are going to be attracted to the beaches of politically unstable Gulf States with a potential terrorist lurking behind every oil storage tank?

I love American paranoia combined with a total lack of knowledge. Well, not having any of these annoying paranoid and clueless people down there is one reason why I love vacation in Dubai so much...

And btw, on entering the UAE I'm not given a feeling of being a criminal as it happens in certain other countries thanks to senseless pictures and fingerprints...

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
And until they are willing to fly to the real economic powerhouse in the region, Israel, I have no need to fly with them.

Hey, that powerhouse status must be the reason why Israeli airlines have been booming and expanding like crazy lately...

Btw, number of terrorist attacks in the UAE: 0 (zero). Israel: Countless. No further comment required.


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-08-22 12:02:33]
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
b6sea
Posts: 354
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:55 pm

ok so here's what I think, they could go bankrupt, i mean... anything's possible right? but I doubt they will because of the massive development plans the emirate of Dubai has... I mean if you look at it, Its crazy... but I've been reading articles in magazines such as conde naste, travel and leasure... saying that hotel occupancy is in the 90% range... even disneyworld doesnt have that sooo if the demand is there then there's no bankruptcy on the horizon... also I believe that the opening of the Chinese and the Indian markets will play a MAJOR roll in Emirates' future
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:59 pm

I agree that at first view 45 A380s seems a lot, howevr it was only a matter of years ago that we were in awe of SQ's order for 77 B777s. They seem to have pulled it off in line with their strategic direction at that time.
 
Lemonsoda
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
I think the real question should be, could an EK actually turn out to be a viable airline for the long run rather than how many airplanes can they buy?

A useful way to disentangle the challenges EK faces, and hence, arrive at more interesting answers to the real question of this thread.

What intrigues me is the potential of hubs to aggregate pax and hence lower the threshold of profitable travel between destinations that cannot support point to point flights. Wouldn't EK stand to profit greatly from this kind of development between say China / India and Europe, as has been hinted at?

Considering the fact that Chinese car sales are booming, the number of tourists from China is only going to rise, and they will not all hail from Shanghai or Beijing.


Now, to Udo.

Are there two Udos, one who can comment intelligently and most of the time reasonably, and Udo2 who delights in grinding an axe like a lot of his countrymen lately? I'd have some choice words for Germans in general, but they belong here as much as your latest utterance.

On the subject of Islamoholics Anonymous and EK, I'd think they despise with a vengeance the hopeful signs of life seen in Dubai, even without Democracy thrown into the mix, which they signally loathe. It should not be papered over.
 
ILOVEA340
Posts: 2064
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:46 pm

Something that rarely gets mentioned here is that the 9/11 attacks really helped the economies of the Gulf region. The money which was originally invested in the United States by Gulf companies and individuals is now being invested in the home region. Stock markets in the Gulf region are up nearly 500% since the 9/11 attacks.
 
Adria
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 7:53 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:06 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
Yes they can go bankrupt, same way Saudi Arabia can run out of oil.

I'm in complete agreement with Lhrmaccoll

These are mini fiefdoms, with more money than God, trying to enter the 20th century using high tech toys to do so. I would say the analogy would be a KLM or the old Swissair during the 1950s, essentially huge international only carriers based in a postage stamp sized countries with no real need for internal air service. And they did a very good job at it for a long time, until international economic realities changed, and alas, so did the airlines. Just how many oil executives need transport in an A-380 on a daily basis for the foreseeable future? How many tourists are going to be attracted to the beaches of politically unstable Gulf States with a potential terrorist lurking behind every oil storage tank? How many Indians need to be transported between London or NYC via a non Indian carrier? Answer: time will tell. I think the real question should be, could an EK actually turn out to be a viable airline for the long run rather than how many airplanes can they buy? My gut feeling is no. And until they are willing to fly to the real economic powerhouse in the region, Israel, I have no need to fly with them.



there is no reason why EK should go bankrupt in the let say near future. And if you think that the government is such a big help for EK to expand in the future go to their site download their financial statements and take a look. You'll be surprised that they don't receive big government support at all! (perhaps you should also go study for a couple of years so that you'll understand what you're reading)
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:28 am

I spoke to my EK sales rep on a visit to the office last week. Per her they are having very high load factors and can't keep up with it. They hope to open several more cities in the States and India is doing incredibly well as is Australia. IIRC they chairman of EK stated that if they could have the 380 yesterday it would not be a problem to use them as they are not buying the aircraft strictly as a prestige purchase but with a very thorough business plan.
 
Udo
Posts: 4288
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:15 am

Quoting Lemonsoda (Reply 26):
Are there two Udos, one who can comment intelligently and most of the time reasonably, and Udo2 who delights in grinding an axe like a lot of his countrymen lately?

Come on, sarcasm hasn't yet killed anyone.  Wink

Btw, which countrymen are you talking about?

Quoting Lemonsoda (Reply 26):
I'd have some choice words for Germans in general, but they belong here as much as your latest utterance.

If you disagree with anything I said you are free to criticize it precisely.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
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RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:03 am

The success of Emirates is not based on either cheap oil or government subsidies.These factors exist only in the imaginations of those who have not looked at the actual data. It is mainly due to a good regulatory and labor environment, a good hub position, and simply good management.

There are 3 big dangers as far as I can see.....

....Rapid expansion could lead to operational issues. This is what brought down People's Express.

.....A war. This could involve Iran, or a coup of some sort in Saudi Arabia. A civil war in Iraq could spill over into the gulf states as well. The gulf states themselves are reasonably stable, but many of their neighbors are not.

....Hub bypass. The same long range aircraft that allow Emirates to reach North America may make hubs in places like the UAE less important. Regional hubs, particularily in Asia, may become more important. This is more of a constraining factor than a showstopper, however.

One question - what is Emirate's labor situation? Could labor costs go up in the future? What kind of issues are there between labor and management? What is the corporate culture of Emirates? Rapid expansion always leads to some labor issues, the question is whether the Emirates culture is strong enough to withstand this.
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
And until they are willing to fly to the real economic powerhouse in the region, Israel, I have no need to fly with them.

Israel has good fundamentals....but in that region real economic powerhouse, please....With the likes of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Baharain, and only if Iraq was stable oil exporting country. Granted, that these countries only have one economic commodity, however, when that commodity is black gold, do you need anything else. When these countries sneez, the world feels usually gets a cold.............
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
Lemonsoda
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:09 pm

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting Udo (Reply 30):
Quoting Lemonsoda (Reply 26):
Are there two Udos, one who can comment intelligently and most of the time reasonably, and Udo2 who delights in grinding an axe like a lot of his countrymen lately?

Come on, sarcasm hasn't yet killed anyone. Wink

Btw, which countrymen are you talking about?

Yours. What you call sarcasm I call posturing.

Quoting Udo (Reply 30):
If you disagree with anything I said you are free to criticize it precisely.

I am not. This is not a private argument. Your choice of themes is the issue.

Make an effort to get your captive audience and expected context in line, or do you so depend on what are cheap shots? You risk running into more flak than you bargained for, and backing out will become increasingly hard.

Now, I usually appreciate your tongue-in-cheek comments, and if Airbus has a hardy defender, you do take pride in adhering to relevant facts.

This could be a very interesting thread.
 
b6sea
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:55 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 32):
Israel has good fundamentals....but in that region real economic powerhouse, please....With the likes of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Baharain, and only if Iraq was stable oil exporting country. Granted, that these countries only have one economic commodity, however, when that commodity is black gold, do you need anything else. When these countries sneez, the world feels usually gets a cold.............

Don't kid yourself, Israel is a major economic power, especially in that region with much money flowing in to the country from all parts of the world (especially the USA). With that said, Emirates still has a lot of room to grow. Right now I dont think the problem is overcapacity but rather keeping up with the growth of the city of Dubai and also the opening of China and India and their future demand for flights to europe.
 
col
Posts: 1692
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:11 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:15 am

I looked at the UK pax figures for Dubai in July 2005 v 2004, and this should give you some ideas on how they are doing, and why they are short of aeroplanes:

LHR-DXB 14% growth, increase of 14,915 pax, total 118,224.
LGW-DXB 27% growth, increase of 11,060 pax, total 52,200.
BHX-DXB 40% growth, incraese 0f 6,740 pax, total 23,431.
GLA-DXB 10% growth, increase of 1,414, total 15,582.
MAN-DXB 17% growth, increase of 4,969, total 34,376.

BHX flights increased to 2 x daily 332, from one 772.
MAN flights increased from 2 x 332 daily to 1x332 and 1 x 772.

Lack of aircraft held MAN back until they could release a 332 for a double BHX, then BHX 772 was sent up to MAN. MAN growth will see a 773ER by end of year. GLA will see 773 also. The 773 will give way to the 380 at MAN I believe in 2007/2008.

So if they stick to two rotations per day out of UK regions, they need to go bigger.
 
ekgold
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:26 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 24):
saying that hotel occupancy is in the 90% range

Correct. we have daily trouble getting rooms for visitors to Dubai unless booked many weeks in advance. Most 4* and above hotels are reporting greater than 90% average annual occupancy. Things are so good for hotels that one group, Rotana, set their 2005 budget at the 2004 actual level, 94%!!

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 31):
A war. This could involve Iran, or a coup of some sort in Saudi Arabia. A civil war in Iraq could spill over into the gulf states as well. The gulf states themselves are reasonably stable, but many of their neighbors are not

we seemed to have survived 2 gulf wars pretty much in tact so no reason to suggest that wont keep going...

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 7):
And until they are willing to fly to the real economic powerhouse in the region, Israel, I have no need to fly with them.

stop it, i nearly burst with laughter... a real economic powerhouse indeed... anyway flying from the States why would you take an EK flight. Bit of a back track from Dubai... i cant see you ever needing EK to get you around..

As the management keep on saying, give us the planes and we will fill them. one of the only restrictions on EK growth at present is deliveries of new aircraft. I am not privy to the specifics of the business plan, but i am always curious as to why EK will not take on used aircraft in the short term to aid in their expansion. Anyone know why they only put new a/c into service? Obviously mx costs but any others?

and back on topic, every business has the possibility of going bankrupt.. however well managed ones tend not to..
 
flydubai
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:35 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:05 am

Quoting Col (Reply 35):
BHX-DXB 40% growth, incraese 0f 6,740 pax, total 23,431



Quoting Col (Reply 35):
BHX flights increased to 2 x daily 332, from one 772.

The demand for BHX-DXB is very high. Most of the flights are fully booked. Weeks before the second daily flight was introduced EK were flying a 773 into BHX because of the increased demand. EK offers BHX a key to the rest of the world opening up a range of destinations via Dubai including

Sydney
Perth
Hong Kong
Johannesburg
Bangkok
ect.

EK will operate 2 772 daily services as from June next year. BHX is the local airport for over 6 million in the region and many prefer to fly from BHX than LHR. The problem is the runway at BHX is only 2600m which limits the size of aircraft that can operate into the airport. Slots are also limited.

Hamzah
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 34):
Don't kid yourself, Israel is a major economic power, especially in that region with much money flowing in to the country from all parts of the world (especially the USA).

I don't doubt that Israel is an major economic power in the region. I am simply refuting the posters claim of who the real economic powerhouse in the region is.

You are correct with Dubai. The place has tremendous growth potential. Other key factor in it's future success may be it's closeness(proximity and relationship) to the Indian Subcontient. Anyways, many of this countries are now finally coming to realization that the end of oil may be near, and most seem to diversifing, hopefully they will spend their old revenus wisely.
Come on you gunners......!!!!!
 
toering
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:42 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:22 am

Quick question: How many of the A380 orders are from airlines in the same region as UAE?
 
b6sea
Posts: 354
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:44 pm

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting LH477 (Reply 38):
I don't doubt that Israel is an major economic power in the region. I am simply refuting the posters claim of who the real economic powerhouse in the region is.

sorry, I misread "THE economic powerhouse" as "AN economic powerhouse"...
sorry about the misunderstanding... also for GeorgiaAME: it's not emirate's fault it doesnt fly to tlv its the UAE government's/Israeli government's fault
 
flydubai
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 4:35 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:31 am

Quoting EKGOLD (Reply 36):
Anyone know why they only put new a/c into service? Obviously mx costs but any others?

I think they leased or bought their A340-300's from SQ.

Hamzah
 
David_itl
Posts: 5969
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting Col (Reply 35):
BHX-DXB 40% growth, incraese 0f 6,740 pax, total 23,431.
GLA-DXB 10% growth, increase of 1,414, total 15,582.
MAN-DXB 17% growth, increase of 4,969, total 34,376.

I've played around with the provisional flying programme and worked out loads for the three airports based upon the information I had to hand. GLA led the way with over 91% loads, MAN was just under 89% loads and BHX trailed in with 69% loads.

A decent proportion of the EK MAN passengers are going to Australia - about a quarter of them. Ca't understand why they prefer to go one-stop instead of BA/QF two-stop version  Wink

David
 
lh477
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:23 am

RE: Could EK Go Bankrupt?

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 40):
sorry, I misread "THE economic powerhouse" as "AN economic powerhouse"...
sorry about the misunderstanding... also for GeorgiaAME: it's not emirate's fault it doesnt fly to tlv its the UAE government's/Israeli government's fault

No problem mate.....
Come on you gunners......!!!!!