Orion737
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BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:21 pm

Just been speaking with a friend who flew LHR-CDG and she says the buy on board system is an utter shambles. The time the cabin crew got to her seat row, they had no sandwiches left and the service was very slow, with many passengers being served moments before landing preparations.

Apparently, cabin crew spent most of their time, to-ing and fro-ing for change and many passengers were very frustrated.

Seems this Buy on Board will require an extra cabin crew member on board if it is to work satisfactorily, particularly on short flights.

Serving everyone and colecting the correct monies and distributing change is very time consuming and they seem to have had big problems estimating stock.
 
Joost
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:29 pm

Wouldn't a better title be "BMIs BOB Not Working YET"? The things you mention, are merely introduction problems.

Having an extra F/A on board to sell more was tried by easyJet (4 F/A's in the 319s) but they turn back this. It looks like it does not generate the profits they hoped for.

Estimating stock and change money should be a matter of a few weeks before it's working fine. (although, they could have looked how other carriers are doing it  Wink)
 
Orion737
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:33 pm

Shouldnt these problems have been adressed before the concept was introduced?? Its giving passengers a very poor service in the meantime.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:35 pm

All this has been said before in other BMI related threads. Thing is it works for other carriers, but BD want to remove the additional crewmember needed, and offer BOB. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

Joost is spot on however, as this has only been operating for 22 days no. The staff will require some getting used to it. And I think there are murmurings from some BD crew contacts I have, that they are on an unofficial go slow in protest.

Simply put however, people dont expect to have to pay on BD. So it's doomed to failure from the outset.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Orion737
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:39 pm

Exactly, and in the meantime they are further ailienating their customers by offering a very poor service.
 
N
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:43 pm

Perhaps they have should have introduced their new product in stages and introduced BOB first THEN reduced the number of cabin crew once the passengers got used to it.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 2):
Shouldnt these problems have been adressed before the concept was introduced??

Of course it should! But as with everything BMI do, it was done halfhearted, without apparent forethought or planning.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
Exactly, and in the meantime they are further ailienating their customers by offering a very poor service.

Agreed. But this is what you get by enforcing change on a workforce with little or no consultation. Its a no win situation now. Customers will stay away and the airline may ultimately fail because of this (and other equally strange policies).

I think it's the general consensus that BD really don't have a plan for the future. What they do seem to have is an obsession in change without planning.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
cornish
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:47 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
in the meantime they are further ailienating their customers

Isn't that a cornerstone of BMI's current strategy though ?  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
nijltje
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:51 pm

What are the FA trying to reach with "working slow"? Do they really think the management will change their ideas? BD is going a different way that's it.
I'm also not happy whit their decision but it's to the customer to choose.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:53 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
many passengers being served moments before landing preparations.

When my girlfriend and I flew LHR-AMS in June (a long 36 minutes), the cabin crew had not retrieved the empty packets and drinks cartons, etc., despite descending. The same applies, through my experience, on other very short flights, such as to MAN, BRU or CDG. Perhaps all refreshments ought to be withdrawn on such flights.  Wink
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Orion737
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:55 pm

I dont think they have to 'try' to work slow. Delivering a buy on board cabin service is more time consuming than a complimentary cabin service where everyone is given the same sandwich/snack.

Stopping to colect money, give out change and run between trolleys looking for sandwiches is very time consuming, especially with a reduced compliment of cabin staff.

It makes for a frantic, very frustrating service where cabin crew and customer are both unhappy.
 
Joost
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:59 pm

Therefore, airlines should encourage to buy your own food and drinks at the airport and bring it with you in the airplane  Wink
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 11):
airlines should encourage to buy your own food and drinks at the airport and bring it with you in the airplane

No, because then they'd lose revenue, although I know that you know that that is not a good idea.  Silly BUT - why couldn't there be a 'food stand' near the gate (well, the waiting area) where passengers can purchase refreshments for the flight say 1 hour before departure? Would save on any hassle and might then aid a more enjoyable, comfortable and, overall, pleasant experience.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:07 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
Would save on any hassle and might then aid a more enjoyable, comfortable and, overall, pleasant experience.

No No No. whatever next??

for goodness sake James - where were you when they were giving the LCC customer service lectures on your university course?!  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:13 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 13):
for goodness sake James - where were you when they were giving the LCC customer service lectures on your university course?!

Yes, you are right, sir. I completely forgot that the customer is just an annoyance - and unimportant irritation - and certainly not the most important asset of the firm without whom the firm would not exist. God forbid the customer is treated like royalty and so has an exceptional and unforgettable experience, and then tells everyone about it and becomes loyal to your business. Hell no!  Wink
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:15 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 14):
Yes, you are right, sir. I completely forgot that the customer is just an annoyance - and unimportant irritation - and certainly not the most important asset of the firm without whom the firm would not exist. God forbid the customer is treated like royalty and so has an exceptional and unforgettable experience, and then tells everyone about it and becomes loyal to your business. Hell no!

Much more like it - we might make an Airline Exec of you yet Big grin
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:25 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 15):
we might make an Airline Exec of you yet

Daddy O'L will be chuffed that his only son will be like him.  Silly
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:44 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 1):
The things you mention, are merely introduction problems.

I agree - they will get the Food servce right by mid september

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Thing is it works for other carriers, but BD want to remove the additional crewmember needed, and offer BOB. You cannot have your cake and eat it.

The easyJet 4th crew member was due to the number of seats onboard the A319.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Simply put however, people dont expect to have to pay on BD. So it's doomed to failure from the outset

The pay on board concept is really good. In fact its the only thing I agree to of the recent changes. The wastage of food on prior flights was amazing. I for one was sick of having to fish out the 'egg' on their hot morning panini's, and was just requesting orange juice. I now have a choice of what to eat.

Quoting N (Reply 5):
Perhaps they have should have introduced their new product in stages and introduced BOB first THEN reduced the number of cabin crew once the passengers got used to it.

They are. What you see today is just the first step. Come October, Silver and Gold BD card holders will be denied lounge access and miles on fares under £150 (ish) (i.e. anything lower than M class). £150 return on a LHR DUB fare is not a low fare.

I am into week three of my (un)official boycott star alliance. I'm enjoying BA, and EI

[Edited 2005-08-22 15:51:41]
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:50 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 10):
Delivering a buy on board cabin service is more time consuming than a complimentary cabin service where everyone is given the same sandwich/snack.

Not always true, as less people buy food on board. even when the BD sandwiches were free, about 30% of people declined the substandard food.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
- why couldn't there be a 'food stand' near the gate (well, the waiting area) where passengers can purchase refreshments for the flight say 1 hour before departure?

The staffing of this 'food stand' will have to be managed by the airline, which results in extra costs. They also need to lease the space, which at Heafrowe is expensive.

Having been on food free BA recently, and talking to the crew, they were bored stupid, as they have nothing to do... perhaps BD can borrow some?

[Edited 2005-08-22 15:55:11]
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Orion737
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:00 pm

Are you honestly saying coming through the cabin offering complimentary sandwiches is slower than having to stop,take order, collect money, till in the purchase, give change or (run to other trolley/FA for change or sandwich if none left) !!
 
Joost
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:12 pm

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 12):
No, because then they'd lose revenue, although I know that you know that that is not a good idea. BUT - why couldn't there be a 'food stand' near the gate (well, the waiting area) where passengers can purchase refreshments for the flight say 1 hour before departure?

Well, actually Ryanair promotes the airports it serves to sell food and drinks to the customer. On this way, the airports can generate non-aeronatic revenues, that are needed to keep aeronautical chargers low. There is an interesting article on this by Sean Barrett, who interview O'Leary on this. I'm sure you'll be interested to read it.

www.hamburg-aviation-conference.de/p...%20-%2001%20-%20Sean%20Barrett.pdf
 
trident2e
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Just been speaking with a friend who flew LHR-CDG and she says the buy on board system is an utter shambles. The time the cabin crew got to her seat row, they had no sandwiches left and the service was very slow, with many passengers being served moments before landing preparations.

Apparently, cabin crew spent most of their time, to-ing and fro-ing for change and many passengers were very frustrated.

This has been my experience on several short FR and EZY flights - and they've both been at it for years.
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:16 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
Are you honestly saying coming through the cabin offering complimentary sandwiches is slower than having to stop,take order, collect money, till in the purchase, give change or (run to other trolley/FA for change or sandwich if none left) !!

Orion, you are quoting worst case scenario.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
than having to stop

Cabin crew have to stop at everyone with free food. BD were never like Delta, and actually served you food, rather than taking aim from row 4.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
take order,

Cabin crew have to take order with free food. Think of all the drink combinations, etc, or choice of egg and tomato roll, or egg and egg panini.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
Collect money, till in the purchase, give change

This is new. However, if 1 in 8-10 is buying, compared to the majority of free foodies at least taking a drink is the time saving greater or less than time spent today.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 19):
run to other trolley/FA for ... sandwich if none left

Happened with free food too ... heck an A320 takes no longer than 20 seconds to get from one end to the other.


EasyJet can do an entire cabin in twenty minutes (short hop). BD will get there too.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Orion737
Topic Author
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:33 pm

BD will get there too? when they have no customers left?

It dosent take much perception to forsee what the problems with the BOB would be, so why were BD not better prepared to minimalise these problems by better training.preparation?

Saying it may get better soon is no compensation for the passengers now, who are recieving a shoddy and frustrating service.
 
whitehatter
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:40 pm

I find it incredibly strange that BMI can't manage this properly but Baby can.

Seems like there may be a lack of communication and cooperation between the two arms of the same business. Surely the Baby people could have offered their expertise on getting BOB to work properly.

The real reason has to be down to staffing and lack of training, or just outright resistance to having this new way of working imposed on them. Industrial relations within BMI Mainline at the moment do not appear to be all sweetness and light.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
Saying it may get better soon is no compensation for the passengers now, who are recieving a shoddy and frustrating service.

As a BD Gold card flyer, I agree. However, I have confidence they will get it right.

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
BD will get there too? when they have no customers left?

I'm a critical fan of BD, and they will get through this issue. Not allowing Loyalty card into their lounges on lower fares will / is causing a mini-revolt.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Orion737
Topic Author
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:51 pm

I think the take-up on baby flights is likely to be a lot less than the take-up on BMI mainline flights. BMI customers are used to the drink and sandwich so are more likely to purchase than baby's customers
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 26):
BMI customers are used to the drink and sandwich so are more likely to purchase than baby's customers

Actually no, I think the opposite. Given BMI mainline pax are more used to 'free' food, I think they are more likely to snub the BOB offerings, especially as there has been no significant reduction in fares, IMHO.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
trident2e
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
EasyJet can do an entire cabin in twenty minutes (short hop)

Oh no they can't. I regularly fly LPL/BFS and they do a 'by request' service only and then for only a five minute period.
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:05 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Apparently, cabin crew spent most of their time, to-ing and fro-ing for change and many passengers were very frustrated.

Seems this Buy on Board will require an extra cabin crew member on board if it is to work satisfactorily, particularly on short flights.

Serving everyone and colecting the correct monies and distributing change is very time consuming and they seem to have had big problems estimating stock.

I have a better idea.

Shortly after departure - one F/A asks for a show of hands of anyone intending to drink, and then eat. Then, for example, 55 cartons of orange and 45 paninis are launched down the cabin, chucking them towards the back first, moving forward until there's no longer a hand on show.

Second stage - one F/A walks down the aisle with a bucket and anyone seen to be eating OR drinking has to put a fiver in the bucket. Anyone seen to be eating AND drinking has to contribute a tenner.

Upon arrival - if the money in the bucket doesn't tally exactly with the volume of paninis and cartons of orange consumed, then the whole passenger load is made to stay behind until the shortfall is made up. If after 5 minutes, this still doesn't tally, one passenger is chosen at random, taken outside and under the wing, and shot.

What could be simpler than that? It's not labour intensive, everyone who wants service gets it, and fast.
 
BestWestern
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BMIs BOB Not Working

Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 29):
Second stage - one F/A walks down the aisle with a bucket and anyone seen to be eating OR drinking has to put a fiver in the bucket. Anyone seen to be eating AND drinking has to contribute a tenner.

I Like the bucket concept... however, considering their move towards bmiBaby at heathrow, how about using a potty instead. It would ensure brand integrity, and be a memorable experience.

Those who arent toilet trained (flights to Manchester)  Smile are asked to at least aim the money at the cabin crew.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!

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