gokmengs
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Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:15 pm

I just flew DL 73 from IST-JFK today on Bizelite. It was a packed flight and the F/A who I see frequently on this route informed me that starting October DL is upgrading its BizElite product and putting -get ready for this- sleeper seats on the BizElite section. She said they were receiving many complaints from frequent flyers and she mentioned that its about time they upgrade the seats and the IFE. Can anyone confirm this? If this is true I believe its big for Dl since they will lure more pax and profit to their lucrative and profitable intl operations.
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YXramperLAX
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:21 pm

Though it is needed for DL to compete in the market place, I don't think that new Biz Elite seats should be their focus! They have a cash crisis on hand. That is quite a few 767's that need the new seats. Sounds very expen$ive to me.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:09 pm

Quoting YXramperLAX (Reply 1):
Sounds very expen$ive to me.

I agree but they need to be competitive and if you look at their comeptition you will see how outdated DL's BizElite product compared to others, DL should do the upgrades we know they will increase their international destinations so the upgrade will help a lot.
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gokmengs
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:37 pm

I have just researched online and couldn't find any news releases relating to this BizElite upgrade, can this be a secret or the F/A that mentioned this was speculating. Any DL insiders here?
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georgiaame
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:18 pm

It is my understanding that while Delta is hemorrhaging cash on its domestic, spelled "feeder" routes, international is making a profit.

Heaven knows, you have to be an idiot to pay Business class fares on Delta for the product they dish out. A mega upgrade of BizElite might, just might, get me flying with them again and actually paying for their product.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting YXramperLAX (Reply 1):
Though it is needed for DL to compete in the market place, I don't think that new Biz Elite seats should be their focus! They have a cash crisis on hand. That is quite a few 767's that need the new seats. Sounds very expen$ive to me.



Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 4):
It is my understanding that while Delta is hemorrhaging cash on its domestic, spelled "feeder" routes, international is making a profit

Correct, Delta's international operations are profitable for Delta, which is one reason why most legacies are turning to make international routes their main focus. Delta's BE product was top notch when it came out, but since then, some airlines have done them over. So it is now time for an upgrade. Makes sense with the term, "you have to spend money to make money; no one has ever saved themselves to profitability."

I haven't heard anything on sleeper seats, but with AA installing them, DL would be just about the only international operator without them. Personally for me, if I want to sleep, I need to be only slightly reclined or completely flat. That 60 degree tilt that the BE seat currently has just doesn't work for me. I slide down towards the bottom of the seat. I have to shorten the footrest to hold me up, but then I can't rest when I am bracing myself against something to stay still. Usually, I recline the seat just a little more than the usual coach seat reclines and can do fine with that.

A little off subject, but I recently saw one each of the new 757's and 767's with new DL interior last week. Very nice, certainly brightens up the cabin. Did a little personal seat testing in First and coach, not too bad once they get a little broken in, and even had to check out the lavs. Sure enough, the faux wood flooring is still there. LOL


OttoPylit
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gokmengs
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 4):
Heaven knows, you have to be an idiot to pay Business class fares on Delta for the product they dish out. A mega upgrade of BizElite might, just might, get me flying with them again and actually paying for their product.

I agree that they don't have a great product but I don't think it is as bad as you make it out to be. Also, on many destinations they don't have decent competition. Many FF's just won't quit flying them. I have to add I love the level of service offered by their F/A's. That makes for a lot of the bells and whistles they lack. My 2 cents.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 6):
I have to add I love the level of service offered by their F/A's. That makes for a lot of the bells and whistles they lack. My 2 cents.

Exactly the reason I fly Delta! Continental may have the 'youngest all-jet fleet' and jetBlue may give you huge TV's, but no other airline has ever matched the way a Delta F/A treats you on the plane...

And, when DL rolls out their new BizE product, people will be surprised!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
avek00
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
DL is upgrading its BizElite product and putting -get ready for this- sleeper seats on the BizElite section

"Sleeper seats"!? You mean DL is going to upgrade to a product that would still be one generation behind the flat-but-not-level beds and two behind the VS/NZ Suites!?

My goodness...
Live life to the fullest.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:26 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
the VS/NZ Suites!?

which happen to SUCK
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Pope
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
She said they were receiving many complaints from frequent flyers and she mentioned that its about time they upgrade the seats and the IFE. Can anyone confirm this?

I can confirm this. DL's Biz E product sucks. The last three segments I flew in BizE had broken seat, non-functional power ports or dirty blankets/pillows.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
panamair
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:01 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 2):
if you look at their comeptition you will see how outdated DL's BizElite product compared to others

Actually, DL's BizElite product is really not that outdated. Sure, when you compare them to BA and VS's flat-beds, no one can compete, not even SQ. However, DL does not really directly compete with BA and VS in their core markets so it is not like DL is losing its shirt there. Whlie AF and LH are getting new lie-flat-at-an-angle seats (which, btw, are really nothing to write home about), many of their transatlantic flights still feature the old-style seating, which are far worse than DL's "old" BizElite product. I think it's just the perception thing - just because DL hasn't updated their product in any significant way does not mean the seat or pitch are less comfortable.

Also, how come not too many people are complaining about CO and their BF product? They have only upgraded the 777 seating but their 762, 764, and 757s still feature BF seats and legroom that have not changed one bit since their introduction (which was even before DL's BizElite introduction). UA and AA (the latter until just recently) also hasn't done much to their international J product either.

That being said, I think any plans to roll out significant changes to the BE product are probably on hold given the current financial situation (otherwise you would be hearing about it in press releases). Some cosmetic changes are being made (e.g., new all leather seat covers) but the introduction of a completely revamped seat will have to wait, I'm afraid.
 
ARGinLON
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
Also, how come not too many people are complaining about CO and their BF product? They have only upgraded the 777 seating but their 762, 764, and 757s still feature BF seats and legroom that have not changed one bit since their introduction (which was even before DL's BizElite introduction).

I think CO is introducing a new IFE on the 757B. The configuration on the 764/762 is 2x1x2 making it more roomy than DL (I think).

Having said that, you are right. DL apart from UK, FR and DE routes doesn't have much competition (in terms of seats) and can afford to keep the current product.

AF's old seat is really bad. I agree with you here too.
 
Delta4eva
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:56 am

I heard rumors about a year ago that DL was planning on upgrading the BusinessElite seats. I just assumed that they had put those plans on hold to refurbish the domestic fleet.

I recently flew BusinessElite ATL-STR and MAD-ATL on standby and wondered why anyone would pay the premium fair for BusinessElite. While the service was outstanding, the seats seemed worn and one or two were broken and didn't recline.

If Delta does convert some of the 764s to BizElite(which I think is a good idea), then it would be a great time to introduce a new BizElite seat. I think it would be a good idea if Delta introduces a similar seat to AF's new Biz so they together would have a more uniform product.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
panamair
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 13):
the seats seemed worn and one or two were broken and didn't recline.

There is a difference between a seat being broken or worn versus the product being outdated. The former is simply a maintenance and operational issue that can be easily fixed; the seat product itself, when working properly (and normally) is still a very decent product.
 
Delta4eva
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:13 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):

There is a difference between a seat being broken or worn versus the product being outdated. The former is simply a maintenance and operational issue that can be easily fixed; the seat product itself, when working properly (and normally) is still a very decent product.

You are right about the seat being broken. Maybe all that DL needs is to replace the seat cushions and fix all the seats(I'd hate to be one of those full fair customers w/ a broken seat). But I also think that it is time for an update in BizElite, especially since most of Delta's $$ these days is coming from international.
But I'm sure with their current situation, Delta can't afford these changes.
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jrlander
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:01 am

I had not heard about new seats, but an all leather redo of the current seat is being tested. That was actually announced on the Delta employee web.

I just returned from Buenos Aires having flown non-rev and been in Business Elite all the way. The seats could use some work. The IFE could use an update, but that might be able to done by simply replacing the central system and keeping the seats. Some of the remotes in the seats could be replaced. The food and wine were excellent, particularly on the way to BA. Coming back, the Buenos Aires catering was just not as good. The service depends a lot on the crew. Going down, we had a heritage Pan Am crew who were just wonderful. The flight leader greeted everyone in the waiting area before we boarded! She was courteous yet appropriately playful at the same time. (Somehow, she spent the entire 10 hour flight in high heels!) Coming back, we had a couple of flight attendants who could have used refresher courses on how to be polite. We had one f/a new to businesselite, and the others were just not giving her the help she needed.
 
avpilot01
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:11 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
Also, how come not too many people are complaining about CO and their BF product? They have only upgraded the 777 seating but their 762, 764, and 757s still feature BF seats and legroom that have not changed one bit since their introduction

UH, maybe because CO's seats and IFE are far superior to DL's in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I like Delta alot, I used to work for them, however, they do not cater to the business passenger like CO does. Most of their network is domestic traffic, so most of their bizelite traffic are FF'ers who just fly domestically. You can tell this by the widebodies they use on just their domestic short haul markets. i.e. ATL-MCO, ATL-FLL, ATL-TPA.
 
jrlander
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:46 am

Actually- Delta has greatly reduced the number of BusinessElite seats used domestically. And, the product is an international product. They have done away with a true BusinessElite US. So all BusinessElite traffic is international. Planes that are flying domestically, which is normally just a way of keeping a plane in the air, are billed as Business Class, not BusinessElite. BusinessElite flights either begin or end at JFK, CVG or ATL. You still get BusinessElite configured planes flying MCO-ATL, JFK-ATL, CVG-ATL, SLC-JFK, JFK-CVG and a few other routes. Those numbers are dramatically reduced though from former days. While Delta's traffic is heavily domestic, its international routes are huge! As a percentage they may be less than other US carriers, but DL remains the leading carrier in the Atlantic market in terms of passengers carried and a strong competitor in Latin America, where they have added a significant number of new destinations.
 
gokmengs
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RE: Insider Info On DL BizElite Upgrade

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 8):
"Sleeper seats"!? You mean DL is going to upgrade to a product that would still be one generation behind the flat-but-not-level beds and two behind the VS/NZ Suites!?

Well I know they are upgrading to a better product. Also are you mentioning the VS sleepers that requiers a passanger to be tied to the seat to keep them from falling off the seat while sleeping  Wink

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
I think it's just the perception thing - just because DL hasn't updated their product in any significant way does not mean the seat or pitch are less comfortable.

I think you have a good point but in the age of Directv on the LCC I think DL could definetly use better IFE on the BizElite.

Quoting Avpilot01 (Reply 17):
You can tell this by the widebodies they use on just their domestic short haul markets. i.e. ATL-MCO, ATL-FLL, ATL-TPA.

That doesn't mean anything, DL BizElite is directly targeted for international markets.
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