User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:41 am

The wing of a United Airlines jet bound for Narita, Japan, struck an Alaska Airlines jet while pushing back from the terminal at Sea-Tac Airport Wednesday. Both planes were damaged but no one was injured.

United spokesman Jeff Green says the Boeing 777 was leaving the terminal with 217 passengers and 14 crew members when it hit the Alaska Airlines plane early in the afternoon. No one was injured, but flight 875 was delayed while the airline worked to fix a wing tip light.

Alaska Airlines spokeswoman Amanda Tobin says Alaska's Boeing 737-900 was parked at the gate with no one on board at the time of the accident. No one was injured, and she says the accident did not delay any flights since the airplane was not in service at the time.



http://www.komotv.com/stories/38733.htm
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:48 am

Ouch! I'd hate to be that tug driver!
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
ASMD80
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:56 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:55 am

How bad was the damage. Did anyone get any pics of the incident?
Some things are actually better at 30,000+ feet...
 
September11
Posts: 3293
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:49 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:00 am

Not again... this is not the first wing strike for UA 777


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation Photography



June 3, 2001 @ IAD
Airliners.net of the Future
 
dan2002
Posts: 2024
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:11 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:06 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 3):
Not again... this is not the first wing strike for UA 777



View Large View Medium

Photo © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation Photography



June 3, 2001 @ IAD

Not again.
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
flanker
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:42 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:16 am

Whoa, talk about bad training. The lead for the flight must have been sleeping.
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:18 am

Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!
 
as739x
Posts: 5001
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:20 am

So sounds to me like UA backed into AS? I had not heard anything, but I am not at work so kinda out of the loop. EA CO AS, R where are you?

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:42 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:27 am

Just watched it on the news. Looks like the 777 was pushed back too far and hit an empty Alaska jet. The rudder on the 737 was damaged as was the left wing tip on the 777
 
flanker
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:42 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:28 am

Were the wing walkers sleeping too? Such a stupid mistake!
Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
 
as739x
Posts: 5001
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:31 am

I think the AS plane is N309AS, it was out of service earlier. Let you knwo if I hear anything.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:02 am

The AS aircraft damaged was 317.
The UAL flight was pushing back and the wingtip impacted the rudder
of the AS jet. The AS jet was undergoing unscheduled maintenance
prior to the incident.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:27 am

At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's wha'ts most important here.

Or...something like that.

I keep reading on this website from the anti-union crowd why it makes no business sense to have mechanics do receipt and dispatch (R&D), that's it's costly and unproductive. But take the long view...compare the higher labor cost for a mechanic to do R&D vs. all the damage done by rampers doing R&D instead (both to their company a/c and other aircraft...UA will have to pay for the damage the AS plane, too) and see how much is REALLY being saved in the end! Where were the wingwalkers in all of this? Why wasn't the person driving the tug fully aware of what was going around him/her?

I'd love to see figures on damages to aircraft before mechanics were forced to give up R&D vs. having the rampers do it. Similar time frames...not 25 years vs. 6 months... Yeah sure

Mechanics are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground...not the pilots, customer service, or flight attendants...the MECHANICS. And for that reason, among others, R&D should be done by MECHANICS, not rampers.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2565
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:35 pm

I am no English expert but doesn't 'collide' mean something more serious. Like high momentum mass to mass incident.
Granted I assumed it would be a small clipping incident with no fatalities/injuries but some people on this net should really check their grammar, so misconceptions do not develop (particular topic headers).
 
chgoflyer
Posts: 312
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:16 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:37 pm

"Collide" of all the words to use in english... perhaps bump or hit.. but collide sounds a bite dramatic.
Will someone please wake me up in 4 years
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!

Attitudes like that kill people. Harsh punishments can cause incidents and aircraft damage to be covered up or not reported for fear of instant termination.

Granted, someone who makes repeated mistakes needs to be dealt with appropriately. Retraining or disciplinary action up to termination are some options.

This event was witnessed by many people, but had something similar happened in the middle of the night with no one around, why would the people responsible be inclined to report it? What if the damage was slight enough to not be seen by the flight crew on their walkaround but caused problems in flight?
 
c172pic
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 2:40 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:17 pm

Not shocking, I have seen UA push 777s at IAD with zero wingwalkers, oh, the insanity!
 
pictues
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:41 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:20 pm

Up here in Canada, Mechanics only push planes back if they are being towed to the maintenance hanger (AC). At AC, WJ and Globeground airlines the ramp workers push the aircraft back. With Globeground contracts we Two the aircraft to the Hanger if needed.
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:26 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):

You really need to get over yourself Steve. I bet there were just as many accidents when the mechanics had R&D. Maybe your dad can tell me what his coworker was doing while he put this aircraft into the grass? Maybe thet should only have trained pilots do run ups huh?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Buzz Meyer

 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 18):
I bet there were just as many accidents when the mechanics had R&D.

Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 18):
Maybe your dad can tell me what his coworker was doing while he put this aircraft into the grass? Maybe thet should only have trained pilots do run ups huh?

Not to nitpick, but this incident happened during the day, my Dad worked nights, so I know it wasn't someone on his crew. I don't know the facts behind this particular 737 incident at PDX, so to try to guess what happened here doesn't accomplish anything. In addition, the topic at hand is about R&D, not run-up and taxi incidents.

Would the pilots allow that kind of language (i.e. run ups) in their contract? I doubt it.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:45 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
I keep reading on this website from the anti-union crowd why it makes no business sense to have mechanics do receipt and dispatch (R&D), that's it's costly and unproductive. But take the long view...compare the higher labor cost for a mechanic to do R&D vs. all the damage done by rampers doing R&D instead (both to their company a/c and other aircraft...UA will have to pay for the damage the AS plane, too) and see how much is REALLY being saved in the end! Where were the wingwalkers in all of this? Why wasn't the person driving the tug fully aware of what was going around him/her?

Where is the correlation between union membership and competence? Are you stating that union members are more competent than non union members? It would serve to follow then that an employee could increase their competence by joining a union. How wonderful, what a great way to redeem incompetent workers... they join a union and are suddenly skilled.

Let's get to brass tacks, mechanics can get it wrong just as easily as ramp rats and wingwalkers. It's down to the INDIVIDUAL... the person makes the difference, not the union and not the workgroup. Where are the mechanics on the hundreds of UA flights pushed and received every day worldwide entirely without incident? What about the errors, accidents and collisions that happened on MX watch? Are you saying the rate of incident was lower? Provide a source, please.
 
Shenzhen
Posts: 1664
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 12:11 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

Review the NTSB database, I'm sure there are all kinds of incidents that could be attributed to mechanics on the ground, as well as others.

Shit happens, nothings perfect, and if it was... there would be a lot less jobs in aviation.


Cheers
 
pictues
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:41 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:11 pm

I've pushed quite a few planes back without any incedent, I'm not a mechanic and I don;t even work for an airline, I work for GlobeGround. I'm a ramper, we do all our pushes and tows, MX does the brakes, but at one time we did that too until a few incedents and Hudson General (at the time same company) decided it wasn't worth it so the mechanics do the brakes but that is all. I know at Air Canada the rampers do the normal push backs and tows for gate to gate, and maintenance does their tows to the hanger.
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:48 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said.

It's fine to back up your opinion, regardless of how limited your tunnel vision is. Of course, your signature must not apply to yourself. Here's an example of these "expert mechanics"...

This spring...GQ had a plane clip a QX de-ice truck (was a/c N182YV I believe). Guess who was taxing it, AND who had declined a marshaler and a wing walker? You got it right, some mechanic. Remind you this was in the gate area. A lead ramper tried to get his attention, but he just taxied away...and right into the truck. Until I see this 'fact-based comparison', I'll stand by the fact that following SOP, even if it's around an MX hanger during R & D, an actual pilot and/or rampers seem to have a better clue as to how to handle aircraft.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:53 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 19):
Again...I'd love to see an independent, fact-based comparison covering similar time periods before I reevaluate my position. Short of that, I'll stand behind what I said

Well, the mechanics only did the R&D in about 25% of the system stations. That means Ramp Servicemen, and Customer Service reps have been doing R&D in 75% of the system before the mechanics lost it. If us ramp rats, and keyboard pushers were damaging so many aircraft in the past twenty years. Why didn't WHQ have maintenance take over R&D in all the stations then? I don't care if it's a $30.00 a hour mechanic, or a $8.00 a hour ramper. Things like this happen.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:39 pm

Damn.These things should be avoided.
Any link that lists reported Ground Incidents.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
MX757
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
Mechanics are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground...not the pilots, customer service, or flight attendants...the MECHANICS. And for that reason, among others, R&D should be done by MECHANICS, not rampers.

I agree with you but I can guarantee that it is still cheaper for ramp agents to push back aircraft. No matter how much damage they do. I think airlines factor this in when they took push backs away from the the mechs and gave it to the rampers. Bean counting at it's finest!
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
sudden
Posts: 3934
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:42 pm

Hi guys,

lets try to keep this a bit professional.

I worked as loadmaster for 4 years at GOT and we never had a wingman walking with us. We also never had any incidents!
As far as I can recall the only major thing that happened was when the by-pass pin broke on a F-100 towbar during push, which separated the tug from the A/C.

Does this mean that we were gods? No for sure. Sufficient training? Not more, or less, then anybody else.

These things happen! Not really sure why you start to make such an issue of it.

"Not the first time this happens with UA". So?
Compare this to the daily amount of pushbacks they do from only this airport.

I don't think UA is letting anybody push without getting the proper training.

I just see this as an incident.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
DeC
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:12 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:56 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 13):
I am no English expert but doesn't 'collide' mean something more serious. Like high momentum mass to mass incident.
Granted I assumed it would be a small clipping incident with no fatalities/injuries but some people on this net should really check their grammar, so misconceptions do not develop (particular topic headers).

Word. My heart almost stopped when i saw the topic title!
DEC
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's wha'ts most important here.

Back to the good old argument...how much training does pushing an aircraft take? Because obviously, pay scale reflects how "good" of an employee you are and how responsible one is. Compared to mechanics, all rampers must be complete morons, and they should only let mechanics wingwalk too because a ramper might miss something important.

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
Mechanics are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground...not the pilots, customer service, or flight attendants...the MECHANICS

Really? That's interesting, because at PDX we have no mechanics on site - it is contracted out to JettCare, and I find it hard to believe that second-party mechanics are responsible for HP aircraft. RAMPERS are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground, because nowhere will you find a station with mechanics and no rampers. Mechanics are there to fix things and perform technical operations, not run the ramp show.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:40 pm

what are the ramifications? will anyone get fired? or is it cheaper to retrain someone?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
sudden
Posts: 3934
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 5:20 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:51 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):
RAMPERS are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground

I second that as I was responsible for all actions being done around the A/C.

Also to give clearance regarding push (safety issue) to flightdeck.
Pilots might be ready to push, but I'm not for various reasons, and then my word was the one to follow as I was the eyes, and also responsible for A/C until pilot was able to have a clear view of the surroundings.
They are not when parked at the gate.

Aim for the sky!
Sudden
When in doubt, flat out!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17087
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:04 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!



Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 30):
what are the ramifications? will anyone get fired? or is it cheaper to retrain someone?

What's with the sudden urge to fire someone? If you fire someone based on one mistake, that only ensures that others will try to hide their mistakes, and how good is that for safety?. I agree if it's the third incident in a short time, but give these people a break. They probably feel horrible about it.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
777adoration
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:08 pm

Quoting DeC (Reply 28):
Word. My heart almost stopped when I saw the topic title!

Same here! When you see collide and planes in the subject line, I don't know why but I tend to think the worst.
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 30):
what are the ramifications? will anyone get fired? or is it cheaper to retrain someone?

Depending on the company, a typical punishment for a first incident like this would be a drug test, a detailed written report from each worker involved, and a few days off without pay.
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's wha'ts most important here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't United's ramp people in SEA union (IAM)?
Stuff is gonna happen sometimes regardless of unions and pay.
Didn't Northwest's mechanics push an airplane into a ditch in LAS
a couple years ago?

My guess is someone was in a hurry or wasn't following procedures.
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 35):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't United's ramp people in SEA union (IAM)?

Yes..ramp is IAM in SEA, as elsewhere. Only mechanics at UA are in AMFA (like NW).

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 23):
It's fine to back up your opinion, regardless of how limited your tunnel vision is. Of course, your signature must not apply to yourself.

That comment wasn't needed...if you want to disagree with me, hey fine.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
User avatar
Francoflier
Posts: 3702
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 12:27 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
What's with the sudden urge to fire someone? If you fire someone based on one mistake, that only ensures that others will try to hide their mistakes, and how good is that for safety?. I agree if it's the third incident in a short time, but give these people a break. They probably feel horrible about it.

I agree. He/She might be given a slap on the wrist, a few days off with no pay and a few 'tender' words from his/her crew chief.

Plus, as said above, the guy probably feels horrible, and if he has half a brain, you can bet that he'll be WAY more careful in the future, so in a sense he'll be more valuable safety-wise to the airline.

That's what mistakes are for: to learn from them.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
christao17
Posts: 902
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:14 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
I'd love to see figures on damages to aircraft before mechanics were forced to give up R&D vs. having the rampers do it. Similar time frames...not 25 years vs. 6 months...

It would be interesting to see these numbers.

I suspect that the airlines that no longer have mechanics do push-backs didn't make the decision to do so on a whim. There was probably a good deal of research and number-crunching.

And the decision might have been reached that, over the long haul, the cost of mechanics doing push-backs is higher because of the salary than the cost of possibly increased aircraft damage done when rampers do push backs.

And I stress that that is only if there is any evidence that rampers produce more aircraft incidents than mechanics. IMHO, if you have a good procedure in place and have trained the people performing it, an aircraft push-back should be able to be done by mechanics or rampers with about the same rate of success.
Keeping the "civil" in civil aviation...
 
Gilligan
Posts: 1993
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:15 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
Mechanics are responsible for the aircraft while it is on the ground...not the pilots, customer service, or flight attendants...the MECHANICS. And for that reason, among others, R&D should be done by MECHANICS, not rampers.

Well maybe at UA but not necessarily elsewhere.

I've seen plenty of fine mechanics do some stupid things that resulted in AC damage, not to mention snapped tow bars and the like. This is not to say that rampers haven't done the same thing. I think the comments about who causes the most damage are probably just a little biased. No matter who was doing this push, they weren't paying attention. It could have just as easily been mechs at the helm of the pushback so I don't think I would be too quick to start drawing conclusions. BTW, how many pushbacks are handled by rampers everyday at airports all around the country incident free?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever, I'm going to Texas!
 
KBGRbillT
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:15 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:27 am

Wouldn't a collosion be two moving objects coming in contact under their own power? This is just a ground accident, lets not so dramatic Clickhappy!!!
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 13):
I am no English expert but doesn't 'collide' mean something more serious. Like high momentum mass to mass incident.



Quoting KBGRbillT (Reply 40):
Wouldn't a collosion be two moving objects coming in contact under their own power

"Collide" is usually "a brief event in which two or more bodies come together", one of which may be stationary, and "bodies" do not have to be human. If you were to hit a parked car, with either another car, a hammer, or your fist, it would be a collision in a physical sense.

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 14):
collide sounds a bite dramatic.

Yes, it is a bit dramatic, since collision is usually reserved for when either one or both of the bodies collide in violent manner, or at high velocity.

"Collision" could have been modified to "minor collision" to be more clear, since I also thought two planes had rammed into each other just from the title. However, dramatic or not, the word as used in the title of this thread is indeed used correctly. One plane was stationary and the other collided into it.
International Homo of Mystery
 
as739x
Posts: 5001
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:30 am

I just got some pic's from the scene. It's not aweful. Alaska got the worse end of things. Half way up the rudder the 777 wing tip put a 3 inch slice. If there are no internal problems, a new rudder can be on and the plane back up and running soon.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:18 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:41 am

Quoting September11 (Reply 3):
Not again... This is not the first wing strike for UA 777

Not the first for any airline, this happens several times a year with Multiple airlines.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
Union or not - those that can't figure it out need to be fired!

Have you ever been around a busy ramp before?

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's what's most important here

I disagree, I push planes back, never in 11 years have I hit a plane or damaged one in any way.

Explain that? I have to have a certificate saying I can sit on my ass at a gate in DEN/LAX/SFO/ORD/IAD and watch rampers work, then push a plane back making me more qualified?
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting As739x (Reply 42):
I just got some pic's from the scene. It's not aweful. Alaska got the worse end of things. Half way up the rudder the 777 wing tip put a 3 inch slice. If there are no internal problems, a new rudder can be on and the plane back up and running soon.

Any reg on the UA plane?

Edit: NM.. just checked the FAA site - they have it listed as N223UA

[Edited 2005-08-26 00:05:49]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
User avatar
727stretch
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:59 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
I keep reading on this website from the anti-union crowd why it makes no business sense to have mechanics do receipt and dispatch (R&D), that's it's costly and unproductive. But take the long view...compare the higher labor cost for a mechanic to do R&D vs. all the damage done by rampers doing R&D instead (both to their company a/c and other aircraft...UA will have to pay for the damage the AS plane, too) and see how much is REALLY being saved in the end! Where were the wingwalkers in all of this? Why wasn't the person driving the tug fully aware of what was going around him/her?

One of the reasons we may see more incidents with Ramp doing the R&D is they only have two (or less) years experience performing the task at UA. Right now, not even all of our RSEs are qualified on R&D in BOS. It's not to say that Mechanics are better, it's just they had years of experience doing it at UA. One thing I can tell you, the # of delays associated with R&D have gone down since Ramp took over the function. Give the Ramp some time and they'll be just fine. Still, I'd like to know what happened in SEA today.
flightdiary.net/727stretch
 
StevenUhl777
Posts: 3281
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:02 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting UAcosCS (Reply 43):
Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 12):
At least United saved money by having lower paid employees doing the pushback instead of the better trained mechanics. That's what's most important here

I disagree, I push planes back, never in 11 years have I hit a plane or damaged one in any way.

Explain that? I have to have a certificate saying I can sit on my ass at a gate in DEN/LAX/SFO/ORD/IAD and watch rampers work, then push a plane back making me more qualified?

I was being VERY sarcastic when I posted the original comment...If you read my other posts, you'll see I'm in support of R&D staying with the mechanics.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
flyabunch
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:42 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:27 am

First of all, I am not an airline employee, just a regular passenger. I fly at least 80 flights per year and I usually sit in a window seat. One of the things I like to do is watch the activities on the ramp when I am flying. Sitting there, I always watch the wing walkers. A lot of them seem to be more interested in going on break than making sure the plane is clear. It always gives me a good feeling when I see one that seems to be watching the relationship between the wingtip and everything around it. Most of the time, they just seem to be going thru the motions. Those are the ones that give me an uneasy feeling and I watch them even more closely.

I have seen all levels of care from these people. It does not seem dependent upon Union membership or experience but more on attitude.

Mike
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7182
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:36 am

Just a question. I don't recall seeing very many wingwalkers in Europe, only the tug driver and sometimes the ramp agent who's in radio contact with the flight deck of the a/c being pushed. However, here in North America, most airports have at least one wingwalker on each side.

I also don't recall reading any posts of these incidents happening in Europe, but it seems to happen every other week on our side of the Atlantic.

Anyway, my question is....Does anyone know how many times this happens in Europe and in North America?
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
UAcosCS
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:18 am

RE: 777 And 737 Collide @ SEA

Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting 727Stretch (Reply 45):
One of the reasons we may see more incidents with Ramp doing the R&D is they only have two (or less) years experience performing the task at UA

2 YEARS? The most Jr in our station has 8 1/2 years. Is that enough time to perform such a task?

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 46):
I was being VERY sarcastic when I posted the original comment...If You read my other posts, you'll see I'm in support of R&D staying with the mechanics.

I disagree, why pay a guy 40+ dollars an hour to push a plane back. Have you ever pushed a plane back? I have done every plane type in the UAL fleet and the DC-10's and 727's, BAE 146's , D-328's and even a AC DC-9, and G4 MD-80.

It isn't a hard job, so I am all for ramp doing R&D.

I am not trying to start an argument, I have you on my respected user list Steve, but this a sympathy post for the mechanics. We have gone 10 years without a problem during push back. Granted we only have 21 flights a day, SEA, and hubs are busy ramps, freak accident in my opinion, not lack of training or experience.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adamblang, alphonze, Google [Bot], hoons90, kriskim, qfatwa, Scipio, transit and 195 guests