SWALoveField
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:49 pm

Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:26 am

I apologize for not being able to find a link, but CNN is reporting that Maryland police say a Northwest Airlines 757 was sabotaged when someone let the air out of its tires at BWI.

It was discovered during the pre-flight inspection.

Police were also quoted as saying that this may be related to the ongoing mechanics strike.

Does anyone have more info on this to share? I'm going to keep looking for a link.

If this report is accurate, this strike is taking a nasty and potentially dangerous turn.

Robb
Dallas, TX
 
MattRB
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:28 am

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:30 am

And why are we asked to support unions ???
 
SWALoveField
Topic Author
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:32 am

Thanks MattRB.

Robb
Dallas, TX
 
solehibob
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:39 am

I'd worry about this a whole lot more:

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_237094239.html
 
ltbewr
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:41 am

If someone does any damage to an aircraft any time any place, they should be proscuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the laws should be very tough. If it was someone connected to the union (and how they would get access to the aircraft side of the airport is a good question) did this, and it can be proven, then the union should be told to turn that person in to the law and if necessary the company should suspend talks until the offender is turned in.
 
frugalqxnwa
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:42 am

CNN is sure implying the strike had something to do with both incidents mentioned in the article. While that may be true, lets let the investigators find out. Plus, the A320 hydraulic problem I believe was probably something that would have come up strike or no strike.
 
N501US
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:43 am

From the CNN story "The Maryland Transportation Authority Police is investigating the tire deflation as a crime, a spokeswoman said"

Seems like the replacements must be doing a decent job if the AMFA (or its supporters) are resorting to such measures.
Fools and thieves are well disguised in the temple and the marketplace.....
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:07 am

How can they be sure that one of the new replacement mechanics didn´t do a tyre service correctly? I have had planes incoming, outside strike situations, where mechanics on American stations didn´t tighten down the valve cores, resulting in the tyres leaking air. I would check first who did the last walkaround inspection and tyre service.

Also, since every aircraft type uses different tyre pressures, it is quite possible that mechanic confused the tyre pressures. Outside the strike the whole thing would be a non issue.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
checkraiser
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
If someone does any damage to an aircraft any time any place, they should be proscuted to the fullest extent of the law

They will be. Oh, let me add the word 'intentionally'. One of our trucks accidentally clipped a YX DC-9 in wing in MKE during a planeside op about 7 years ago. I don't think anyone deserved jail time for that.  Wink

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
and the laws should be very tough.

They are.
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
lowrider
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:32 am

There could be any number of reasons for this, so lets not immediately pile on the striking workers. If it is found to be A INDIVIDUAL striking mech, I am sure they will be punished. If that is the case, though, a bigger question to ask is how did they get access to the aircraft in the first place?
Proud OOTSK member
 
KUGN
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:34 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
How can they be sure that one of the new replacement mechanics didn´t do a tyre service correctly? I have had planes incoming, outside strike situations, where mechanics on American stations didn´t tighten down the valve cores, resulting in the tyres leaking air. I would check first who did the last walkaround inspection and tyre service.

Also, since every aircraft type uses different tyre pressures, it is quite possible that mechanic confused the tyre pressures. Outside the strike the whole thing would be a non issue.

You're implaying that the replacement mechanics are retards. Of course, they'll check the logs and verify with everyone who was working or was near the aircraft.

Outside strike tempering with equipment would still be huge issue, however in the given context this is correctly even more important issue than otherwise would be.
 
AirRyan
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
If someone does any damage to an aircraft any time any place, they should be proscuted to the fullest extent of the law, and the laws should be very tough.

A felony is no laughing matter.

From the WCCO article:

Quote:
The mechanics do not want to be identified, because they fear a future employer would not hire whistleblowers.

That's a great reason for unions, isn't it?

The unions are losing ground/credibility a lot faster than NWA and their management.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:47 am

This is a very serious allegation (and everybody seems to realize that) but it is too early to jump to conclusions. There are a number of reasons not related to sabotage that could cause this problem. Police are not avation experts and they may be mistaken. Also don't discount that the story could be planted by management to affect the talks. However if this is related to the strike, and it was a disgruntled mechanic, then the union is finished.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting KUGN (Reply 11):
You're implaying that the replacement mechanics are retards.

I have been working as A&P mechanic / LAME for about ten years now. And before I have worked in other fields of aviation. Trust me, there are retarded mechanics around, blokes who are outright dangerous for both the coworkers and whoevr flies on the plane. I know some blokes with whom I will refuse to work, if a boss ever puts me on the same shift. I know other guys I will watch very closely if I have to sign for their work.

Right now NWA want to bust the union. They are forced to hire replacement mechanics, who wouldn´t get a job somewhere else. Just having an A&P licence in the pocket doesn´t make you a good mechanic. Actually I have both, the FAA A&P licence and an European JAR 66 B1 licence, whicxh was based on an Irish licence. The Irish licence exams (based on the British system) were much tougher than the A&P exams.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
mikefad
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 2):
And why are we asked to support unions ???


I work in a union food processing plant that had a metal scare(nothing EVER left the plant). Turns out a manager intentionally contaminated the product to put the union in a bad light. He was escorted off the property only after a years worth of 'interviews' with only union employees(scumbags).He(manager/non-union employee) was given closer scrutiny after union workers repeatedly told the corporate investigators about this guy........... His firing has never been posted or formally acknowledged by the company.

My point being : the company has alot riding on this strike........Promotions , demotions ,and firings are in the balance.

With stakes that high , you can't put the management beyond reproach.....
 
satx
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 12):
Quote:
The mechanics do not want to be identified, because they fear a future employer would not hire whistleblowers.

That's a great reason for unions, isn't it?

The honest truth is that many/most public whistleblowers in the US are indeed unable to find future work in their chosen field after they blow the whistle. What on earth does this have to do with unions?! Think. Then type.
Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
 
qqflyboy
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:08 am

I would be surprised if the tire deflation were investigated outside a strike. Any number of things could have caused that, as mentioned above, outside of malicious intent. I know people can be capable of potentially dangerous things, but deflating two tires? Not likely. The only damage would be a short delay to inflate them. Easy enough.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
socal
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:13 am

Would in it be dangerous to deflate aircraft tires?
I Love HNL.............
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:43 am

Maybe it was a striker or a sympathizer or someone totally unrelated to the strike. My problem with these kinds of incidents when a strike is underway is the weak-kneed response by union leaders to any allegations against the union members. Typically it is a defensive "We don't condone ...". What is required is "The union doesn't tolerate vandalism, intimidation or violence in any way, shape or form. Any union member found to be responsible will be expelled from the union and lose their job rights". I've seen the weak response so often in response to obvious union member vandalism and I can only imagine union members hearing such a response get a wink-wink, knudge-knudge; yeh, it isn't right, but hey, screw the company and scabs.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:43 am

If the pressure is below a certain limit, the tyre will have to be replaced (depends also if the plane moved with the low pressure tyre). If ithe pressure is below another (lower) limit the other tyre on the axle would have to be changed as well.

Low pressure can cause the tyre to overheat and burst.



To deflate an aircaft tyre you�ll need a special deflating tool to unscrew the valve core.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
jc2354
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:44 am

Aren't the striking mechanics locked out?

Jack
If not now, then when?
 
legendDC9
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:51 am

Just think if that had not been identified in time and the aircraft would have been allowed to leave. Who ever was responsible for that would be facing attempted murder charges. Safety is not something anyone should use as a bargaining chip over labor negotiations and it doesn't matter if it was one disgruntlld mechanic or someone from management trying to put the employees in a bad light.
 
midnights
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:57 am

I can honestly say that in my 15 years as a mechanic at AA and 3 yrs prior to that at Pan Am..that I have replaced many many tires that were found flat with no apparent cause. sometimes it just happens..that's why flight crews do walk-around inspections and mechanics check the tires on overnight and even through trips. I don't know what "evidence" there was to lead the Baltimore P.D. to assume it was sabotage but I have seen tires pick up all sorts of FOD and go flat or even if the tire pressure was chkd maybe the valve core didn't reseat. I have seen that a couple of times...
 
Dougloid
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Midnights (Reply 23):
can honestly say that in my 15 years as a mechanic at AA and 3 yrs prior to that at Pan Am..that I have replaced many many tires that were found flat with no apparent cause. sometimes it just happens..that's why flight crews do walk-around inspections and mechanics check the tires on overnight and even through trips. I don't know what "evidence" there was to lead the Baltimore P.D. to assume it was sabotage but I have seen tires pick up all sorts of FOD and go flat or even if the tire pressure was chkd maybe the valve core didn't reseat. I have seen that a couple of times...

True....and only a fool takes the axle nut off before letting ALL the pressure out, and only a dead fool changes tires outside a cage. In my nearly five years working at McDonnell Douglas on the flighgt ramp the only instance of sabotage was when some production supervisors (i.e., MANAGEMENT and not UNION MEN AND WOMEN) took cutting pliers to wire harnesses in a couple of MD80s because they were getting laid off along with everyone else.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:17 am

I have had some instances of tyres leaking air through pores in the sidewalls. I only noticed it because I was servicing them in rainy weather and saw it bubbling.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
MGB80
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:18 am

It would be very easy to determine if it was a deliberate act.
If the valve cores are missing...bingo ! deliberate. If the fuse plugs blew due to brake overheat....this is normal.
I suspect if someone deflated the tires on purpose, they would not return to reinstall the valve cores after removal.

[Edited 2005-08-25 23:19:30]
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:48 am

A wound is never healed until all the SCABS are gone!
 
N867BX
Posts: 295
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:51 am

Quoting TWAL1011 (Reply 27):
A wound is never healed until all the SCABS are gone!

If that's true, this wound may never heal.
 
LMP737
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 2):
And why are we asked to support unions ???

The problem here is that the union in question is on strike. Which means that there are no allowed on NWA property. I don't know about other airports but at ORD the striking workers had their airport ID's taken as well. Which means the only places they can get access to are areas the general public is allowed as well, i.e. the terminal.

Another point, unless the Maryland State police has a detective who also is an A&P mechanic with heavy jet experience how are they going to know it's been tampered with? Unless of course it's something very obvious like a missing valve stem.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
RyanAFAMSP
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:43 am

What is everyone talking about here? The AMFA mechanics are locked out. The only people with access to the ramp are the scabs and management. The AMFA people are outside on the curb with picket signs. Only the scabs are touching the airplanes. The only way there would have been a sabotage is if this was pre 8/19, or if someone outside MX deflated the tires. The same holds for the Billings incident. The AMFA mechanics aren't around the airplanes. Vance security and NWA itself won't let any AMFA guys on the ramp or in the hangars. They all rolled their tools out Friday.

Can we get a hold of ourselves folks?
 
S12PPL
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:49 am

I might have to fly out to IND in September. I don't think I'm gonna even go near NW. I'll fly UA or CO and save my life.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
alphascan
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:50 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
They are forced to hire replacement mechanics, who wouldn´t get a job somewhere else.

In a non-seniority based system your theory would hold water. But it is a seniority based system in the US airline business and these replacement mechanics were mostly laid off from NWA and other carriers not based on skill...but seniority.

Your theory is invalid.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:03 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
How can they be sure that one of the new replacement mechanics didn´t do a tyre service correctly? I have had planes incoming, outside strike situations, where mechanics on American stations didn´t tighten down the valve cores, resulting in the tyres leaking air. I would check first who did the last walkaround inspection and tyre service.

What leaves you with the false assumption that Mechanics layed off by other carriers, layed of by Northwest and re-hire retired mechnics formerly with Northwest can't do their job properly.
 
northseatiger
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:31 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
If it was someone connected to the union (and how they would get access to the aircraft side of the airport is a good question)

Well these are the union members !!!!!!!!!!! and yes they work with aircraft !!!!!
T's And P's look good....Rotate
 
Jalto27R
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:46 am

Everyone's saying the Union mechanics that are striking aren't allowed on the airport, but what if someone didn't strike with the intentional purpose of damaging aircraft.

Mike

(Just a thought)
 
positiverate
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:57 am

Quoting Solehibob (Reply 4):
I'd worry about this a whole lot more:

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_sto....html

I'd worry about both. There's enough blame to go around here...
 
rj777
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:46 pm

I hope it's just the tires that went bust and hope the airline doesn't.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:00 pm

>> What is everyone talking about here? The AMFA mechanics are locked out. The only people with access to the ramp are the scabs and management. The AMFA people are outside on the curb with picket signs. Only the scabs are touching the airplanes.

They worked for NWA for years. Do you really think it's impossible to find a way into their work place? When I was a kid, my dad worked with ultra-sensitive financial information that required his office to be very secure. After working in an office for a few years, he found out that simply waving a roll of paper through a small gap in the security perimeter would trigger the motion sensor on the other side and unlock the door. For kicks, he tried (and was able) to pass through all three security checkpoints with nothing more than a sheet of paper, library card, and dextrous fingers, and walk up to millions of dollars of oil field data.

Airports are secure, but they are no Fort Knox. A sabetour isn't going to watz up with a picketing sign in hand and a former employee would know what he was doing and wouldn't look out of place. I really don't want to conclude that this is or isn't sabatogue (however you spell it) but we must accept that it is within the realm of possibility.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:18 pm

If it is proven that someone intentionally sabotaged an airliner, and that person is caught- perhaps they should be sent to Guantanimo and tried for terrorism, whether he is Al Qaida or a Striker
 
LMP737
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RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:26 pm

DFWrevelution:

So someone is going to go through all that trouble to let air out of tires? That's assuming of course this whole incident was intentional. Let's see, first they have to get onto airport property. Without ID this might be a bit problematic. I guess they could "infiltrate" somehow. However we are dealing with middle age aircraft mechanics, not Navy SEALS. Then they have to get onto company property. As has already been discussed NWA has hired outside security. Then there's the fact that the managers that remain are probably going to recognize someone who used to work for them who is now on strike.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
dl757md
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Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:20 pm

Quoting Jalto27R (Reply 35):
Everyone's saying the Union mechanics that are striking aren't allowed on the airport, but what if someone didn't strike with the intentional purpose of damaging aircraft.

I'm not 100% sure about this but I believe that NW locked out all AMFA members thus preventing any from crossing the picket line and doing exactly what you have proposed they might have.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 38):
I really don't want to conclude that this is or isn't sabatogue (however you spell it) but we must accept that it is within the realm of possibility.

OK, It's within the realm of possibility, but I would put the probability of it at somewhat less than 1%.

Dl757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
BWI757
Posts: 380
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:58 am

RE: Northwest 757 Sabotaged Say Maryland Police

Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:44 am

Alrighty then, stupid question on topic:

BWI is just an endstation for NW - we get all variations of the domestic fleet here so do they keep a multi-certified one here? I would think if there was a mechanical problem they would have contracts or agreements with other airlines/service companies in place? If so, someone would know why an NW mechanic was @ BWI? Or am I missing something here? Thanks

BWI757

[Edited for accuracy]

[Edited 2005-08-26 18:46:19]
I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!

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