MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15253
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:33 am

I've noticed at several airlines that there seems to be a problem with employees sleeping on planes overnight, especially if the plane has first or business class seats. I'm not familiar with contracts but I'm guessing that no matter what your job is, sleeping is not allowed while you are on the clock. Does this happen at your airline? Who in their right mind thinks it's ok to sleep while you're on the clock? Is it actually in a contract?

[Edited 2005-08-25 20:47:01]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
Does this happen at your airline

No time for Sleeping.Although there are a few characters that dose off during spare time.
All Pax Airlines out here,Employees are not permitted to be seated in the Foward seats unless Cabin cleaning has not started.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
242
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2000 1:10 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:57 am

It happens. There are always a few people that try to get away with as much as they can. I'm sure similar goofing off goes on at other workplaces.

Another situation is late night irregular ops. With crew lounges overflowing, many times I've seen stranded flight/cabin crews seek refuge in overnight aircraft.
 
fiaz
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:34 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:58 pm

I know that it is a CRIME for any crew members to fall asleep on any PIA flight

Fiaz
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:13 pm

It is contractual that crew member have the right to a rest period. The "Crew Rest" varies depending on the length of the flight and the breaks are coordinated by the Purser. While Crew Rest seats are often designated, inconspicuously enclosed or covered by a curtain, it happens that sometimes if they are broken or INOP, BC seats or FC seats are designated for Crew Rest. Pilots for instance always get 2 blocked seats in the FC cabin on Long range flying. Much to your surprise, crewmembers are human beings that need to rest...we even eat and go to the bathroom sometimes...

Some of you wannabe airline people in this forum just have no common sense...
 
Trolley Dolley
Posts: 548
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2000 1:57 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:56 pm

Sorry, your post is not clear. When you say overnight, does this refer to the time the aircraft is on the ground between the last flight of the day and the first of the morning, or on an overnight flight?
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:04 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
employees sleeping on planes overnight, especially if the plane has first or business class seats.

Ah yes, I see it now. "Due to cutbacks at Airline ABC, we have decided that instead of giving aircrews a hotel to sleep in at nights, they will now be forced to sleep on the plane on their trips."  wink 

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:08 pm

Yes it happens all the time and yes, it can even be a firing offense especially if it's happened before. It is considered theft of time.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:14 pm

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 4):
Much to your surprise, crewmembers are human beings that need to rest...we even eat and go to the bathroom sometimes...

I'm shocked and appalled!!! Don't be stupid 777Purser, we're not supposed to sleep or eat or use the bathroom!! We're flight attendants, not people!!

Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating. Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
I'm guessing that no matter what your job is, sleeping is not allowed while you are on the clock.

Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Yes, we are ALLOWED to sleep, in fact, the law in the UK requires airlines to give their staff HORIZONTAL rest of 3 hours if the duty day exceeds 12 hours...

I'm always amazed by this sort of comments... Just like passengers still sometimes ask me "are you going back now then?" when I land in, let's say Mexico, following a 11hour flight from London! My answer is always "oh yes, but we are flying via Hong Kong first, then home!"

Safe flying all.
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 8):
Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating

I dont mind that.For they work put in.
BTW they even offer Mx guys a Coffee too when they prepare the galley for the 1st flight after We are all tired from the snagged night  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
flybmi330
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:46 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:38 pm

On my transatlantic flights, once the service is finished, I'll let 2-3 crew at a time go on a break, can be 1-2 hours depending on flight time/pax loads.
If they want to grab some shut eye, that's fine with me.
Looking after the crew has a direct result on the way the pax are treated.
Steve
 
VgnAtl747
Posts: 1333
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 3:59 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:02 pm

We had a couple instances where our high-speed RON aircraft came in late, resulting in the crew only being on the ground for about 3 hours. The captain decided it wasn't worth them wasting an hour (30 minutes each way) to the hotel, so they chose to nap on the aircraft.

Is that what you're refering to?
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:02 am

[quote=VHXLR8,reply=8]Haha, don't you love the looks you get from some pax when they come into the galley and see you eating. Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.

HAHAHAAA!! Yes, they look at you surprised...like they have never seen someone eat...and then quickly glance at your plate to see what you are eating, followed by the "eating the good stuff commentyou refer to....Geeez!

I'll tell you what else, sometimes on short flights we serve no food and then the pasengers start asking how come we are eating (food we bring from our homes or buy at the terminal) As a matter of fact, there have been complaint letters sent to management from passengers bothered by FA's eating on "beverage only" flights.

Also, I like to buy magazines and newspapers...well they even want those! I got a huge paycut 3 years ago, still buy my food and reading material...passengers want 39.99 fares and all the amenities....AND GOD FORBID YOU SLEEP....EVER!
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:08 am

Quoting M404 (Reply 7):
Yes it happens all the time and yes, it can even be a firing offense especially if it's happened before. It is considered theft of time.

HUH? What is it that you do for a living? If anything it can be considered an FAA violation as a safety issue as no one is monitoring the cabin. However, breaks are coordinated so there is always a FA awake in every cabin for safety purposes and to attend passengers needs.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15253
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 5):
When you say overnight, does this refer to the time the aircraft is on the ground between the last flight of the day and the first of the morning, or on an overnight flight?

I'm not talking about crews on longhaul flights--crew rest is built into their contract and their flight pattern and that's understandable. I'm talking about mechanics, airport employees, aircraft cleaners, etc taking naps in planes when they have a normal 8 or 10 (or whatever) hour shift.

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 9):
Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Not what I'm talking about!!!

Quoting VgnAtl747 (Reply 12):
Is that what you're refering to?

No. Legal/contracted crew rest is exactly that--legal and in their respective contract.

Quoting 777purser (Reply 13):
Or when you're eating J class food (as is the norm) and pax comment about eating the 'good stuff'.

On an unrelated note, it's a pet peeve of mine when people comment on the stuff you're eating. I empathize with crew members eating, standing up, in the back galley trying to gain some privacy while passengers are circulating through the lavs.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2790
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:51 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 9):
Nah! Who needs to rest on a 16 hour duty from Singapore to London? What do you think?!!!

Rest, yes... sleep?? Not so sure about that. Who can't go 16 hours without sleeping when they're being paid to work?

My wife works double shifts as a nurse sometimes. 24 hours straight. You think she gets to sleep? I doubt she even makes any more money than you. Sometimes she doesn't even get to eat, much less take a break of any length.

In the US, any 8 hour shift is supposed to have one 30 minute break for meal time. (Contrary to public belief, there is no requirement for breaks other than that.) So a 16 hour shift would have a mandatory one hour rest period, or two 30 minute rest periods. That's it. I suppose you could sleep during that time, but if I owned the company you worked for, you sure as hell wouldn't be doing it in front of the passengers... (that's why planes have crew rest areas.)

I'm sure F/A union contracts stipulate longer or more frequent breaks than what's required by law. But a lot of people in the world work 16 hours or more without sleeping - I'm not sure why some of you are acting like this is impossible for human beings to do. Especially when you consider that you don't do that every day, you have off days in between. (To go back to my previous example, most nurses only work 3 days per week, 12 to 24 hours per shift. From what I know of F/A schedules, it's a similar situation for long-haul service.)
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
klmcedric
Posts: 696
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:19 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 1:30 am

One must not forget that working conditions on a plane are slightly
different then at sealevel.
The amount of oxygen you have is comparable to a high skistation.
This may seem unnoticable two most of passengers, but try to compare
with doing physical efforts in the mountains.
Also the humidity level is approx. 10 times lower than on the ground,which
is also not the most comfortable workcondition.
You can not compare working in the air with on the ground.
It is not only in our,but also in the passenger's best interest that we get
some horizontal rest on longhaul flights.
Even if it's only for one hour or so, I feel almost reborn after such a rest period.I'm then completely ready to go give my best to the pax, and much more alert might emergency situations occur.
Maverick, I know you didn't refer to crew, but some other posters in here seem not to understand why crew badly need some rest on 10 to 16hrs shifts.
Regards.
 
pat
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2000 7:26 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:40 am

Well my friends, I guess that FA also need some rest indeed on some long haul flights in some conditions ( short night-stop, etc, ...), on the other hand being a full paying pax in C class turns me mad sometimes when I think of some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight and who still need to rush rush the meal service in order to collapse on their crew rest seats ... and I refer to flights of 8h or less ...

Don't forget that the revenue pax are still the one paying your wages by the end of the month ... think it had to be said, right ?

Pat
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:16 am

Hi Maverick, thank you for clarifying what your posdt was about, I am glad you do have an understanding of crew rest on long haul flights. As for the other employees...ground personnel and such...I guess techniically they would not be allowed to be napping on the aircraft...but aircraft utilization is such nowadays that a plane does not stay on the ground too long ...ever...they are cleaned and turned around ASAP...my best guess is they would not have too much time for that purpose anyway... PEACE
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:33 am

Quoting Pat (Reply 18):
some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight

Hey Pat, you are going to have to give me the name of the airline that still has such sequences because where I work we even have all nighters to South America, short layover during the day and then all nighter back the same day in the name of productivity... Oh well...I guess we should just be glad we still have a job for 30% less than what we were making 3 years ago, no rest, no food...seems to be the point of view of many people out there...OH! and lets not forget lower fares than ever as the passenger is so price sensitive....

HI, I am a ZOMBIE...Welcome aboard!  Wink
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:43 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
Rest, yes... sleep?? Not so sure about that.

What difference does it make? The crew are out of sight of passengers when this occurs, so whether the crew "rest" or "sleep" in the bunks... Why should you care? The main fact is that half the crew is still on duty at any one time.

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
wife works double shifts as a nurse sometimes. 24 hours straight.

Exactly... double shift, so she CHOOSES to do that, and even if she doesn't, she has agreed to her conditions. I've agreed to mine, which says 3 hours in a bed on a long range flight.

Quoting KLMcedric (Reply 17):
One must not forget that working conditions on a plane are slightly
different then at sealevel.

Thank you!

Quoting Pat (Reply 18):
on the other hand being a full paying pax in C class turns me mad sometimes when I think of some crew members having had a 3 days stop + their "siesta" in the afternoon after the flight and who still need to rush rush the meal service in order to collapse on their crew rest seats ...

Crew shouldn't be seen "colapsing on their crew seats", the airline provides dedicated rest areas out of sight, usually in the forms of bunk beds below the tails or in the belly of the aircraft.

To finish off, I would say that it's better to have crew rested than not, as the outcome will be a better, happier service.

Safe flying all.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:26 pm

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 16):
(Contrary to public belief, there is no requirement for breaks other than that.)

Depends on what state you're in. In California, you are required to take (and your employer is required to give) one thirty minute unpaid break for each period of six or more hours wourked. You are also required to take (and must be given) one 15 minute paid break for every four hours worked. (So, for an 8 hour shift you would have a :30 unpaid lunch and two :15 paid breaks).

I'm not sure if this part was an employer reg or part of the state law, but breaks may not be taken at the beginning or end of a shift.

According to California's Department of Labor you (the employee) MUST take all of these rest periods and may not waive/refuse to take any of them. I tried (hince the official opnion I got from the DOL after asking "do I really have to waste all of the time or does the employer just have to offer it?"  Smile).
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 20):
Oh well...I guess we should just be glad we still have a job for 30% less than what we were making 3 years ago, no rest, no food...seems to be the point of view of many people out there...OH! and lets not forget lower fares than ever as the passenger is so price sensitive....

I don't wanna be a jerk, but that's the job you chose, and if you don't like it, then quit. And who cares if we do want our fares cheap? With the economy the way it is today, of course passengers are going to be price sensitive.
 
AlanUK
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:56 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting Continental (Reply 23):
I don't wanna be a jerk, but that's the job you chose, and if you don't like it, then quit.

I don't wish to answer for Purser777 (I'm sure he/she will answer you directly), but Continental, I'm afraid you are a JERK for saying that!

It says you're a 16-20 year old student, then I suggest you start studying hard because that kind of statement will get you no-where in the working world, especially not if you are in a position that involves management!

Purser777, like me, joined the airline industry with a contract that was agreed at a time. That is the job we chose to do, and the conditions we agreed to.

To expect staff to take pay cuts, change in working practices without a battle is unfair, and your remarks about quitting are just wrong. If we had agreed to a contract and then complained about it, perhaps we should reconsider our career paths, but there is obviously a big difference for Purser777 between the terms and conditions of employment at date of joining and now.

Whichever career you decide to commit to, I do hope your conditions remain the same for your life of employment, but if they change don't expect sympathy from me!

In the meantime, safe flying!
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:48 pm

Thanks Alan, I really did not feeel like getting into it with some clueless teenager. I will tell you though, that in a way we have adapted and are optimistic we will be able to negotiate better terms next time around. For now we have what we have until 2008.

Our Union is lobbying actively trying to correct issues related to the rest periods after long duty days as we believe the company is abusing the terms, among other points. Morale is not bad and we do not dislike our jobs, it is however our duty to ourselves and for FA's in the years to come to protect the nature of our profession.

Many before us worked hard to get where we are. They have challenged management on discriminatory practices and pushed the industry to evolve with the times. Years ago, you had to be a female, single to have this job...forced to quit at age 32...flagrant age and gender discrimination was viewed as normal... You would get fired if pregnant... So much has been done , so much has been achieved in our struggle as a labor group.

NO, we will NOT QUIT as people of dignity do not quit their principles.
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:06 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:51 am

On all the airlines I know and I worked for, a "part" of the crew can go for a sleep if the flight is of a real long duty. Normally on those aircrafts are crew rests installed, then there is no such discussion at all as we have here. But there is always the case, that there is no crew rest and somebody can't control it's sleep anymore.

I just traveled now via MAD to BOG and back on AV. They do operate those flights with a cockpit crew of 3 without a crew rest. They keep the middle seat of row 3 in business class empty for the crew (configuration 2 - 1 - 2). This seat then is used by the pilots to have a rest. Now there are several ways to do it. Some of them are sleeping there in "their full glamour" others put a sweater on and normal pax will not even realize that this is a pilot having a sleep. I would go to do it neutralized as well.

During my days as a F/A with Balair we used to fly duties like MLE-NBO-ZRH due to the first Gulf War. This resulted with duties up to 18 hours. To all of you, blaming a crewmember asleep, I wish to go for such a flight. The fact is, that when the duty starts you will probably be up already for six seven hours, as sometimes our body doesn't want to sleep as we want. Having such a flight then, you will see what it means.

I remember a big discussion in Swissair going for years about pilots and sleeping. They finally came to the conclusion that it will be better to have a procedure and allow somebody to sleep than to forbid it as it can't really be controlled at any price. What they came up with was something, that allowed one of the pilots to sleep for a short while during the cruise. For this they needed to set an alarm clock and the cockpit needed to be checked by one F/A every 10 or 15 minutes, just in case the other pilot would fall asleep as well. As far as a remember were the results quite good. I just think that with today's cockpit doors it may not work any more this way.
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:09 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 24):
It says you're a 16-20 year old student, then I suggest you start studying hard because that kind of statement will get you no-where in the working world, especially not if you are in a position that involves management!

What are you talking about!? If anything, it'll get me even farther! I was basically saying suck it up and stop complaining!

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 24):
If we had agreed to a contract and then complained about it, perhaps we should reconsider our career paths, but there is obviously a big difference for Purser777 between the terms and conditions of employment at date of joining and now.

Seems to me Purser777 was complaining... I mean, you knew what you were getting into when becoming a flight attendant and getting a job in the aviation industry in general!!!!
 
777Purser
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:27 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 27):
Seems to me Purser777 was complaining... I mean, you knew what you were getting into when becoming a flight attendant and getting a job in the aviation industry in general!!!!

Read my last post, see if you grasp a couple things....read the whole theard I am sure you are a smart guy and will follow better what was being discussed.

PEACE
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
dont mind that.For they work put in.
BTW they even offer Mx guys a Coffee too when they prepare the galley for the 1st flight after We are all tired from the snagged night
regds
MEL

Back in the day I was supposed to get some B727 overnight maintenance training from TWA....they had an agreement with the FBO I worked for....so the guy who was to do the training arrived and he was an ancient dude wearing a genuine TWA Eisenhower jacket..

So we go out to the airplane which had been sitting on the ramp in zero weather for a while, we get on board, he goes up in the cockpit, cranks up the APU and gets the heat going. Then he heads to the galley and starts looking around, finds a couple rolls, and says "Those look pretty good. Have a seat."

Then he says: "Now what did I just do? I made sure we don't freeze to death because you don't get paid to get frostbite. Next I found something to eat. NOW, we sit here in relative comfort and figure out what we have to do to get this bird launched before tomorrow morning." Then we started reviewing the squawks, fixed a couple hydraulic drips, job well done, called maintenance control in St. Louis. Exeunt, as the bard says.

It was a lesson I took with me to a lot of jobs and it served me well.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3541
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 27):
What are you talking about!? If anything, it'll get me even farther!

You really think that do you.  worried 

Sounds like you have an awful lot of growing up to do before you are ready for the real world.  puckerup  Ass might and I stress might get you a bit further up the career ladder, but everyone hates an ass kisser, and as long as you can accept being hated by your peers then you go ahead and do that. Oh and just remember that when redundacies come round, who goes first ?. Yep thats right, the managers and if you have a reputaion for being a bad manager then your ass will be out the door quick sharp.

Running a tight ship is not a bad thing, but it's all down to your attitude and right now from what I've read your attitude isn't going to get you very far.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
I'm not talking about crews on longhaul flights--crew rest is built into their contract and their flight pattern and that's understandable. I'm talking about mechanics, airport employees, aircraft cleaners, etc taking naps in planes when they have a normal 8 or 10 (or whatever) hour shift.

Yeah it happens, from time to time and some people are much worse than others for doing it. Don't forget that working shifts plays havoc with your body clock especially when you are constantly working an irregular shift pattern. It is not uncommon to finish at 2200+ and be back in work by 0600, so there isn't much time to sleep at home when you factor in travel time etc.

Don't know about you, but I would rather the aircraft engineers have a nap on shift when they are not busy so they are well rested when it comes to fixing the aircraft. Would you feel ok knowing someone who was intoxicated was fixing the aircraft ? No you would not stand for it, but lack of sleep has been shown to have the same effects on performance over a period of time as drinking alcohol !!!. It has also been shown that even in a 9-5 M-F job, that employees taking even a 20 minute nap during the day will improove their effectiveness greatly during the latter part of the afternoon when productivity generally slows due to tiredness.So yes people may take naps from time to time, but it isn't such a bad thing.

Also when working on the ground, things tend to work in waves, so you can be really really busy for a few hours, then not have anything to do for a couple of hours whilst waiting for your next flight to arrive. Obviously not all departments get this down time as they are generally busy all day, such as the customer facing staff, but the ones you mentioned like cleaners and engineers are usually assigned specific flights to work, and then use the time in between to sleep as there is nothing else for them to do.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 25):
Thanks Alan, I really did not feeel like getting into it with some clueless teenager. I will tell you though, that in a way we have adapted and are optimistic we will be able to negotiate better terms next time around. For now we have what we have until 2008.

Our Union is lobbying actively trying to correct issues related to the rest periods after long duty days as we believe the company is abusing the terms, among other points. Morale is not bad and we do not dislike our jobs, it is however our duty to ourselves and for FA's in the years to come to protect the nature of our profession.

Many before us worked hard to get where we are. They have challenged management on discriminatory practices and pushed the industry to evolve with the times. Years ago, you had to be a female, single to have this job...forced to quit at age 32...flagrant age and gender discrimination was viewed as normal... You would get fired if pregnant... So much has been done , so much has been achieved in our struggle as a labor group.

NO, we will NOT QUIT as people of dignity do not quit their principles.

Mirabile dictu, as my old Latin teacher used to say all those years ago...words to live by. Thanks for a reasoned and well thought out statement without the Clearasil. It really does poison the mind, y'know.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Continental
Posts: 5222
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting 777Purser (Reply 20):
Oh well...I guess we should just be glad we still have a job for 30% less than what we were making 3 years ago, no rest, no food...seems to be the point of view of many people out there...OH! and lets not forget lower fares than ever as the passenger is so price sensitive....

 whistleblower   sarcastic 

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 30):
You really think that do you.

Yes, yes I do. Maybe it's different in the UK, but here in the US if you get pay cuts, benefit cuts, etc., you take it as it is otherwise you're done with that company.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:56 am

Only union employees can sleep on the job. I see it every night. Oh and they do it for $60,000 per year, too.  zzz   zzz   zzz 

And people wonder how an airline like NW can let go of half the mechanics and IMPROVE performance. Scabs don't sleep on the job!!!

Drew
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 33):
And people wonder how an airline like NW can let go of half the mechanics and IMPROVE performance. Scabs don't sleep on the job!!!

The reason that scabs do not sleep on the job is the same reason a whore can't sleep on the job-the pimps won't allow the whore any rest.

when you are a scab nobody's got your back and nobody will stand up for you. Nobody. Even your felllow scabs.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 34):
The reason that scabs do not sleep on the job is the same reason a whore can't sleep on the job-the pimps won't allow the whore any rest.

As a 'scab', I can tell you that's 100% Untrue.
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 34):
The reason that scabs do not sleep on the job is the same reason a whore can't sleep on the job-the pimps won't allow the whore any rest.

when you are a scab nobody's got your back and nobody will stand up for you. Nobody. Even your felllow scabs.

Vindictive? Party of one? Your table is now available. Yeah sure

When you're a scab (or when you employ a group of scabs as I do), you learn the meaning of work - and working together. We DO stand up for each other, and we sleep OFF THE CLOCK. Now you union guys listen close - because this may come as an epiffany - WE ARE THERE TO WORK. NOT to sleep.  Wow!

If you want to get paid to sleep, may I suggest some medical institute? Oh wait, they give those jobs to monkeys and rats... Ironic, isn't it???  zzz 

[Edited 2005-09-03 03:10:26]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):



Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 36):
Vindictive? Party of one? Your table is now available.

When you're a scab (or when you employ a group of scabs as I do), you learn the meaning of work - and working together. We DO stand up for each other, and we sleep OFF THE CLOCK. Now you union guys listen close - because this may come as an epiffany - WE ARE THERE TO WORK. NOT to sleep.

You guys just don't get it. You're there until someone comes in with a lower price. Then you're done. Nobody-nobody will hold the bag for you. When the Northwest strike is settled-mark this, not IF but WHEN, you guys are history because the deal's between the company and the bargaining unit-you will have no seat at the table, and no-one to advance your interests and plenty of people who will do you in....you will not be remembered.

One of my buddies scabbed at Alaska back in the seventies when they were on strike....when the strike settled, the scabs got gone, and they found it very hard to find another job in the industry-he never could get a slot at a major after that.

Scabs and informers inhabit the same low strata. They're bottom feeders. They earn no respect, even from the people who employ their services.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 37):
you will not be remembered.

...but our bills will have been paid, our wives and kids will be fed, and we will be waiting for the next band of union superheroes to walk off the job.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 37):
Scabs and informers inhabit the same low strata. They're bottom feeders. They earn no respect, even from the people who employ their services.

Bottom feeders??? Look in the mirror pal. You walk out on a paying job and you call US bottom feeders? Wake up. We're not there for a political purpose. We're not there to prove a point for all mankind. We're there to earn paychecks - and that's exactly what we're doing. You think YOU'RE going to be remembered??? Will it one day say on your grave "Here lies a guy who slept on the job, then whined about the airline getting rid of him"??? 

Frankly your incessant rhetoric whining and cheap shots don't bother me in the least. Your speeches are nothing more than a feeble and transparent effort to give you and your selfish cause credit. I'd rather climb a cactus naked than hear your pissing and moaning.   

Enjoy your measly six bucks an hour (the KID who washes my $60,000 SUV makes more than that) while it lasts. Then, file for unemployment and let us hard working taxpayers keep those peanut butter sandwiches on your table. Yum.   

[Edited 2005-09-03 05:21:34]
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Sleeping On The Job Allowed?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 37):
One of my buddies scabbed at Alaska back in the seventies when they were on strike....when the strike settled, the scabs got gone, and they found it very hard to find another job in the industry-he never could get a slot at a major after that.

Scabs and informers inhabit the same low strata. They're bottom feeders. They earn no respect, even from the people who employ their services.

Druglord -

Does your "buddy" know that you think he's a bottom-feeder? Does he know you have no respect for him?

Your true colors are shining through. That explains your comments and your RR as well (or lack thereof).
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE