NumberTwelve
Posts: 1393
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JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:07 pm

Hi there,
heared a rumor that JL has lower safety standards now and lots of domestic flights have been delaid because of grounded aircraft.
Anybody can confirm the rumor or has further informations?
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DBCooper
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:54 pm

I am in Japan at the moment and this is news to me.

Only serious delays around here this past week were due to the typhoon.

JL is in the process of retiring 3 types...so stop by soon if you want to ride in a D10, A300-B2/B4 and YS-11. The 743/2 and MD-81s are going to be trickling out soon as well.


- DBC
 
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airbuseric
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:51 pm

Of course this is not true!
Never any of the world leading airlines can do that, and won't do that!
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
swissgabe
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:16 pm

In the past, Japan Airlines had several safety issues including a gear collapsing on a 767, a pilot taking off without clearance, problems with parts on their 747 fleet and others.

In Japan JAL has quite a bad image and most of the Japanese think that ANA has a better safety record.

However, I have never heard that a lot of domestic flights have been delayed because of that!
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting Numbertwelve (Thread starter):
Anybody can confirm the rumor or has further informations?

Their safety record more than proves that rumor false. Not to mention that they have a better safety record than MOST US airlines.....pretty amazing isn't it.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/a...detail.cgi?airline=Japan+Air+Lines

This is just another case of someone trying to add to the "JAL is an unsafe airline" BS.......

[Edited 2005-08-27 16:43:48]
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AMS
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 3):
In Japan JAL has quite a bad image and most of the Japanese think that ANA has a better safety record.

Yes, that is correct!
In the last year JAL had too many incidents, and many Japanese are trusting ANA more then JAL. ANA is trying very hard to be better then JAL, and it looks that NH is succeeding.

Regards,
AMS
 
Ejazz
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:52 pm

Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 3):
In the past, Japan Airlines had several safety issues including a gear collapsing on a 767, a pilot taking off without clearance

Singapore Airlines B772 recently took-off from Beijing without a clearance. Events like this happen but it depends on the Airline and word leaking out from other sources as to whether or not you ever hear about them. Because JAL comes clean does not mean its standards are now low or lower than other Airlines.

[Edited 2005-08-28 10:55:45]
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SULUK
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:58 pm

A bit off topic: which routes are still be flown by JAL's DC-10s these days? I def want to ride any of these great birds before they get retired...
we are swissair /+/
 
Halophila
Posts: 455
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:08 pm

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 1):
and YS-11

Please excuse my ignorance, but are JAL still flying the YS-11? I can't seem to find any photos in the database. Where are they flying to/from?

Thanks!
Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
 
N79969
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:27 pm

JAL has recently sufferered a string of incidents. Because of heightened attention, minor events like tire blow outs have become suddenly newsworthy. There is also an element of bad luck. By bizarre coinicidence, an NHK news crew was filming a DC-10 takeoff from Fukuoka when it experienced an uncontained engine failure. Kids on the ground were very slightly injured when they picked up hot engine parts.

However other incidents are more worrying and hard to understand. A JAL flight bound for Osaka took off from Niigata recently without having obtained an IFR clearance meaning that they did not have a transponder code, initial altitude assignment, or list of navigation fixes read back. How the flight crew overlooked this very basic step is beyond me. It was also uncovered this year that JAL had been using the wrong parts on their 747F for 8 years.

The JAL flight that tried to take off from Sapporo without clearance did so in low visibility with another airplane still on the runway. That was followed by another JAL crew that took from Seoul without an ATC clearance. A story about a new JAL problem or error seems to appear in the Japanese press about once a week now.

While ANA has been doing relatively better, they have been not immune. They also had an instance of a pilot taking off without clearance from the tower. ANA may have had the worst operational error uncovered this year when a 767 flight crew reacted improperly to a failed altimeter this summer. They flew from Tokyo to Nagasaki and were off their altitude by 5,000 feet. ATC could not know the problem because the plane's altitude reporting equipment was showing the wrong altitude. Other airplanes were endangered because TCAS also relies on altitude reporting from other airplanes to issue traffic alerts.

Japanese aviation has had a rough year. There is a drastic need to solve systemic problems before there is a serious accident.

[Edited 2005-08-28 11:31:21]
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:14 pm

No quality airline on the planet would knowingly have lower safety standards. The damage done to their international reputation would be immense. We had 2 BA flights on 3 engines a while ago, and I was getting calls from clients asking "are they safe?" and "can you swop my BA ticket for another airline?".
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:28 pm

Quoting SULUK (Reply 7):
A bit off topic: which routes are still be flown by JAL's DC-10s these days? I def want to ride any of these great birds before they get retired...

They are still regulars to Hawaii!  Smile
 
SULUK
Posts: 112
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:30 am

Thks very much, Je89_w... Let's head for Hawaii then...  Smile
we are swissair /+/
 
Carpethead
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:09 am

Try 3X-Japan Air Commuter for those YS-11s. They are part of JL now.

Though JL has many incidents, this is not taking a toll on bookings at all. Traffic levels remain relatively unchanged domestically or internationally from the past year. Those who fly regularly with JL will continue to do so. It's the sometimes A.netters and enthusiasts that blown things way out of proportion.

Does JL need to review its safety awareness? Yes.
Is there a need to avoid them, I don't think so. I tend to fly ANA if I have a choice, but I won't go out of the way to travel by ground or other means if the other option is by JL flying.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 11):
They are still regulars to Hawaii!

one of the DC-10's for JALWays had an engine blow up taking off out of Fukuoka 3 weeks ago on the way to Hawaii, (Left wing), the Honululu News outlets had pictures of a 20 foot flame shooting out.

The plane returned safely and landed at Fukuoka, I would be curious to know if the airframe is repairable.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 11):
They are still regulars to Hawaii!

Only from Fukuoka and not for long either. I've heard that the DC-10s will stop flying the Fukuoka route soon. Also, the Fukuoka route is being dropped in October.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 14):
The plane returned safely and landed at Fukuoka, I would be curious to know if the airframe is repairable.

Of course it is repairable. The only damage was to the engine, there was no airframe damage. All they needed to do was change the engine. In fact, the aircraft, JA8545, should be at NRT right now.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:26 am

Well good, the flame was a good 20 feet long so I was wondering if it damaged stringers or any other items in the wing and if they made an overweight landing.

NW has a DC-10 with over 125,000 hours on the frame and they are still flying it!
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aviasian
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:47 am

A few incidents do not suddenly make JAL an unsafe airline. This must be taken in the context of the scale of JAL's operation (and this certainly is also not to downplay the importance of safety).

There are many incidents at many airlines that go unreported - as alarming as these incidents might seem to us, many of them do not put their passengers in danger although they are not in any way in line with best practices standards. No airline is proud of such deviation I am certain.

But I would still fly JAL and endorse her safety standards.

KC Sim
Singapore
 
Carpethead
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:15 pm

HA763,
The JL DC-10 JA8545 is indeed at NRT and just received an N-reg for ferry to one of airports in the US desert (Mohave or Marana?). Probably will be stripped for parts and never to fly again.
 
ha763
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 18):
The JL DC-10 JA8545 is indeed at NRT and just received an N-reg for ferry to one of airports in the US desert (Mohave or Marana?).

That's interesting. The last thing I heard from my JAL maintenance contact was that the aircraft would probably need to be re-certified to reenter revenue service. I guess JAL didn't want go through the trouble for an aircraft type that is going to be gone in about 6 months.
 
United Airline
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:40 pm

Those 3 are going yes. But I think the B 747s will stay for quite a while, especially the 300s and 400s
 
je89_w
Crew
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:35 pm

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 15):
Only from Fukuoka and not for long either. I've heard that the DC-10s will stop flying the Fukuoka route soon. Also, the Fukuoka route is being dropped in October.

How often does JL use the DC-10 from NRT? (JL76/JL75) Seems to be a mix of B742s and B743s mostly. I was originally planned to fly a DC-10 on JL75 to NRT about a month ago, but the flight supposedly was cancelled due to the low amount of passengers on board. Funny, since JL76/JL75 is mostly operated by the B747.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
But I think the B 747s will stay for quite a while, especially the 300s and 400s

Well the -400s will at least. The B742s and B743s are getting old and should be going soon.
 
swissgabe
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:32 pm

Ejazz
I didn't say that JAL has a low safety record. I only said what a lot of Japanese think and what the Japanese press is writing. I'm aware that JAL is not the only airline with safety issues.
Btw: I personally like JAL and I just flew the 743 and 744 one week ago

Halophila
JAC does still fly them between FUK and KOJ for example. The 3X flights are not displayed in most/all major GDS. Try to check the JAL or JAC website.
Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
 
N79969
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RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:13 am

The JALWays DC-10 had a crack or warp in the pylon after the engine blew over Fukuoka.
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:55 am

RE: JL Safety Standard - Rumors

Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:02 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 23):
The JALWays DC-10 had a crack or warp in the pylon after the engine blew over Fukuoka.



Quoting Ha763 (Reply 15):
Of course it is repairable. The only damage was to the engine, there was no airframe damage. All they needed to do was change the engine. In fact, the aircraft, JA8545, should be at NRT right now.

After seeing the picture of the engine blowing up I wondered how that plane could not have been damaged. Sounds like it is going off to the graveyard now!
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure