amirs
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Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:45 am

There is much talk about Air india reinstating their flights to TLV. Apparently they plan to start in October.
Does anyone from Air India have any news?
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:56 am

Do you know why they stopped flying to TLV? Is it because they are not allowed to fly over Arab countries to TLV which adds hours and fuel costs?
 
B742
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:57 am

That would be cool, I guess it would be a possible A310 flight!

Knowing AI though the route will probably be via DXB, KWI and RUH!!  Wink

Rob!  Smile
 
B742
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 1):
Is it because they are not allowed to fly over Arab countries to TLV which adds hours and fuel costs?

They must be able to fly over Arab countries, as they fly to Arab countries, DXB, KWI, RUH....

Rob!  Smile
 
ly7e7
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 3):
They must be able to fly over Arab countries

Not enroute TLV.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:12 am

No Arab country nor Islamic countries such as Iran and Pakistan, except for Egypt and Jordan, permit any carrier to fly over their territory to Tel Aviv.

This adds extra hours of flight time. They would fly south over the Indian Ocean and up the Red Sea.

However traffic between Israel and India is strong; both business and tourist traffic.
 
karan69
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:33 am

AFAIK, the rumours in the India Press and on this forum have enlisted Telaviv as a favoured destination, but expected to be launched only after Mauritius which is more likely to get started in favour of Telaviv--So this October does not really seem viable



Quoting Semsem (Reply 5):
However traffic between Israel and India is strong; both business and tourist traffic.

I was not aware of that, because EL AL just have a 3x weekly flight on a B767 only to BOM.
How good are the loads on those flights
 
Halophila
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 5):
except for Egypt and Jordan,

Is this the case for UAE? Just curious.
Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
 
ly7e7
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting Halophila (Reply 7):
Is this the case for UAE?

Nope, Jordan and Egypt only.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
airish
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:56 am

Karan69 Mauritius is on the schedules of AI website.

To my knowledge as of now no new flights for winter 05 have been loaded onto AI schedules based on looking at the website http://www.airindia.in/.

TLV could still happen though I would rate it as unlikely because one would think South Africa would be more likely to happen first. October could just be as its the start of scheduling for W05 http://www.iata.org/NR/ContentConnec...c/Calendars_SC116_117_118_119.pdf.

One should find out soon though as 31 AUG : W05 RETURN DEADLINE according to http://www.euaca.org/
Worlds Only Reputable Airline Air India! Some Of The Least: BA, Jet (9w), Kingfisher!
 
amirs
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:11 am

On Israeli media they are reporting that they would like to do it as soon as October, and that they plan "big surprises" on the route.
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:02 am

Yes India is very popular with Israeli tourists. Also in Israel there is an Indian Jewish Community who moved from the Cochin area, where the Jews lived since 2,000 + years.

Also strong business ties; ie the diamond industry.

Some traffic to India is with Royal Jordanian via Amman.

[Edited 2005-08-29 00:05:31]
 
RedChili
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Semsem (Reply 5):
No Arab country nor Islamic countries such as Iran and Pakistan,

There are a few Islamic non-Arab countries that do allow flights to Tel Aviv, such as Turkey, Uzbekistan, and Azerbaijan.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
AMS
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:16 am

Quoting LY7E7 (Reply 8):
Nope, Jordan and Egypt only

How about Turkey? I would say that Turkey allows aircraft over their airspace enroute to Israel. Or correct me if otherwise.

Regards,
AMS
 
airish
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:30 am

Amirs Any links would interested to read what Israeli media is saying about the service and who they are quoting if anyone from AI.
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soups
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting AMS (Reply 13):
How about Turkey? I would say that Turkey allows aircraft over their airspace enroute to Israel. Or correct me if otherwise.

There are direct flightsbetween turkey and Israel
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
soups
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:50 am

AMM- Bombay is 5 hours while TLV-Bombay is 7hours and 45min... thats a long route to avoid some countries
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 1):
Is it because they are not allowed to fly over Arab countries to TLV which adds hours and fuel costs?



Quoting Semsem (Reply 5):
No Arab country nor Islamic countries such as Iran and Pakistan, except for Egypt and Jordan, permit any carrier to fly over their territory to Tel Aviv.

I am quite sure that AI used to fly via Arab territory while they served TLV. That gives them a huge advantage

Quoting B742 (Reply 2):
Knowing AI though the route will probably be via DXB, KWI and RUH!!

Unlikely  Wink A direct flight from RUH to TLV?  Smile

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 6):
AFAIK, the rumours in the India Press and on this forum have enlisted Telaviv as a favoured destination, but expected to be launched only after Mauritius which is more likely to get started in favour of Telaviv--So this October does not really seem viable

Capacity would be there though. It is decided that MRU will be launched soon... either that flight will be extended to JNB, or an extra flight to JNB will be launched. The former is more likely, as the A310 can't reach J'Burg w/o stop (India has 5th dreesom rights from MRU - and another gateway as NBO, DAR or Lusaka seems 100 % unlikely), and the two rustbuckets that will come this year are, afaik, deployed for SFO and SYD (though this is rather speculation). Moreover, does anyone know about "new A310s" to join? Bottom line: First time I hear about the proposed TLV route. AI would be able to fly via the arab countries, and I am curious which city it will serve, if this rumor is true (it will be BOM most likely, but GOI or Manali would do, too Big grin )

Quoting Airish (Reply 9):
TLV could still happen though I would rate it as unlikely because one would think South Africa would be more likely to happen first. October could just be as its the start of scheduling for W05 http://www.iata.org/NR/ContentConnec....pdf.

See above what I wrote about South Africa. I can't imagine there to be a decision between Israel and South A, due to the nature of the road..

Where is MENDIS??  Sad
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
amirs
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:11 pm

AIRISH -

The latest article I read states that it plans to use new plane that are suppose to join the fleet. Even if they dont get organized by join th reinstate the route, it will happen VERY soon. That is what has been said from India.
The article also stated that MAufan Skii (the AirIndia representative in Israel) mentioned that to fight competition, Air India plans "Big and Loud Suprises".
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:55 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 6):
EL AL just have a 3x weekly flight on a B767 only to BOM

And a Long halt in the Afternoons too.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:11 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 18):
Air India plans "Big and Loud Suprises".

Please keep us updated! I doubt that the new 777s, that arrive in October and November, respectively, will be used (maybe an A310 that might be freed).. it could be that some A310s are coming (and there are rumors that 330s might join, too, but they are fruitless).

The own ordered 777s will only join sometime End of 2006.. but even i have heard that many things will change soon

Surprises? Maybe an extension to CAI?? But this are speculations just out of my head
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:32 pm

Israel is a very small country so 3 x weekly B767s is a lot. As to the surprise I can't wait to hear it.

Israeli aircraft may only fly over 2 Arab countries. Out of the Islamic non - Arab countries only Turkey and those that were previously part of the Russian Republics.

El Al used to fly to Tehran but had to stop after the Shah was deposed. They used to fly there through Turkey.

I would be very surprised if Air India is given the authority by Saudi Arabia to fly over their territory to Israel.

It is because of this problem that El Al fares are relatively higher than Royal Jordanian that does not have to fly around Yemen and Oman.

[Edited 2005-08-29 08:33:45]
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:38 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 21):
I would be very surprised if Air India is given the authority by Saudi Arabia to fly over their territory to Israel.

I will try to find an old timetable and verify the timings. AFAIK AI DID fly over Saudi..

and for Israel being a small country, they have lots of tourists here in India  Wink

Since I always wanted to visit Isral (it's on my top list), I might be the first pax on that very flight  Smile
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:44 pm

Happy to hear you want to visit. We have a brand new airport now. I also want to visit India. My cousin goes there a lot and really likes it.
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 23):
Happy to hear you want to visit. We have a brand new airport now. I also want to visit India. My cousin goes there a lot and really likes it.

Oh yeah, Israel is an amazing nation with an interesting history... You msg me if you come - I might be "stuck here" (positively)  Wink 20 yrs + in the "developed" (and heartless) West was enuff for me  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:51 pm

Quoting Semsem (Reply 23):

I always thought Israel & India should have better relations.
Theres a long FDTL halt for EL AL out here in the Afternoons.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
semsem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:48 am

Thank you mrniji. Well India seems to be a good place to get stuck. According to this report both India and China are the new economic Tigers of Asia. Don't know whether this will work but here is a link to a report. Yes happy relations are good.

http://www.ibef.org/attachdisplay.aspx?cat_id=135&art_id=3150

[Edited 2005-08-29 17:52:07]
 
karan69
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 19):
And a Long halt in the Afternoons too

Making effective use of the crew and aircraft and suiting timings for both sides,
the flight arrives in the morning and the crew head straight to the JW Marriot for a well deserved 8 hours of rest and they fly the same plane back at night, thus providing time convinience to pax from both sides.



Quoting Semsem (Reply 23):
I also want to visit India

Since you will be landing at BOM, do contact us-it would be nice to meet yoll.

Quoting Airish (Reply 9):
Karan69 Mauritius is on the schedules of AI website.

Thanks for the update Rishi.

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 20):
I doubt that the new 777s, that arrive in October and November, respectively, will be used

I know i even heard about these rumours from Rocketman742s post, but has the arrival of these birds been confirmed. or are they still rumours

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 20):
it could be that some A310s are coming (and there are rumors that 330s might join, too, but they are fruitless).

Subin Bhaisaheb i wish these 330s come into AI or ICs fleet, its a perfect aircraft for the medium to Long range these carriers fly to.
9W however has been the smart one to go for 10 + 10 of these
 
mrniji
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:52 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 27):
rumours from Rocketman742s post,

rumors from Rocketman are normally quite reliable.. there is some "force" behind hin  Wink
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 27):
Quoting Mrniji (Reply 20):
I doubt that the new 777s, that arrive in October and November, respectively, will be used

I know i even heard about these rumours from Rocketman742s post, but has the arrival of these birds been confirmed. or are they still rumours

Leased from where.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
rocketman742
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:21 pm

Guys dont take me seriously I am the king of crap. The latest rumor is that there are 3 777s coming straight from united and not thru a leasing company. There have been a lot of ex BA retired 777 pilots floating around kalina giving their induction interviews and apparently 20 have already been selected. This would definitely point to the aircraft being confirmed but this will only be sealed when a big bunch of Indian first officers make the move up from the 310 to the 777s which hasn't happened yet.
PS : Air Indias route to TLV took them south west to Djibouti then Ethiopia then Asmara in Erietria then they would climb or descend to some crazy altitude and fly up the red sea keeping equidistant from both shores of Sudan on the left and Saudi on the right (Physically overfly the boundary of the two) keeping their mouth shut and not talking to any ATC controller. This is apparently semi legal as if you fly on the boundary then you are in neithers territory. An hour later they would get into Egypt and then it was a smooth ride from there. Everyone from Eithiopan ,el al and everyone else going to TLV did the same and I reckon they still do.
 
aseem
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting Rocketman742 (Reply 30):

flying an aircraft over a national boundary is tougher than making a horse run on equator.
Moreover, why are they supposed to keep their mouth shut from ATC. Won't they find out anyhow if you fly for weeks and ends. Sounds like one of those CIA flights to Gitmo to me.
To make things simple, what route does El Al take to BOM.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
planeboy
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:43 pm

Me thinks DEL-GOI-TLV seems to be a better route to start with. Inbound pax can connect at GOI for other destinations. GOI is a favorite destination for Israelis.

BTW, how does the existing EL AL service fly into BOM? They must also be making considerable detour.
 
cricket
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:50 pm

Quoting Planeboy (Reply 32):
Me thinks DEL-GOI-TLV seems to be a better route to start with

Well, to be more precise, they should build a new airport in Manali and make a direct Manali-Tel Aviv flight in summer and a Goa-Tel Aviv flight in winter.  Wink
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amirs
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RE: Air India Back To TLV

Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:55 pm

Any news on what the "BIG SURPRISES" will be?