User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:41 pm

A Norwegian financial newspaper announces that SAS long-haul division (Scandinavian Airlines International) will have to spare 450 millions Swedish kroner (roughtly 50 millions USD or Euros) before any expansion plan may be considered.
Savings understood to come from a 20 to 30% increased productivity of crews, reduced ground handling costs and better refueling contracts.
It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable (about 25 millions USD or Euros in the red for the first half of 2005, for ex.), but is very important to the company as a whole.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:01 pm

Hi!

SAS has a long tradition in their long-haul division. They used to fly mostly all over the world in the past. Of course things changed dramatically in these last few years but I still think SAS has a niche in their network. One thing I notice is the fact that beeing in the northern part of Europe sometimes can punish them for anyone that needs to fly anywhere in the world. Let's see, if someone from Portugal needs to fly to SEA, maybe the cheapest flight is with SK via Scandinavia ( maybe not too... ) but just because you need to fly almost 4 hours to get your main flight sometimes that doesn't give motivation for people to do it! I would mind, but I belong to a special breed that don't mind to fly at all!!! Reminds me that last April I had to fly from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!
Anyway I like SAS, they have an excelent and new long-haul fleet and maybe one of these days I'll try them ( but before that I'll need to process that with my family, I know that they will come to me complainingwhy we needed to fly so much north to get to our final destination!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
panamandy
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:32 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:49 pm

hi, i highly doubt that sas long haul is operated at a loss.

their planes are almost full anytime!

and i loved to fly them to lax,gru,ewr,jfk,ord,bkk and sin one of the best in my opinion.

its a shame they cut so many routes!
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:20 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 1):
from LIS to KIX and the cheapest way was with AY... yes it was and I wanted to book it but unfortunetely the segment Barcelona/Helsinki was full, otherwise I would go!!! But I know that a lot of people would never do that!

Never do what? To have a 9-hour Europe-Japan flight instead of the usual 11 or so hours...? Finland is much closer to Asia than any other Western European country, you know... A direct BCN-KIX flight would be only 29 km shorter than the route via HEL! Check the Great Circle Mapper if you don't believe me...
AY and ANA rock!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:32 am

Hi!

I'm just saying that with the experience I have here from portuguese citizens! They would just not do it!!!! I got that information from the portuguese travel agency that I booked by flight! Unfortunetely that segment BCN/HEL was not available otherwise I would do it!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 4):
They would just not do it!!!! I got that information from the portuguese travel agency that I booked by flight!

So you are seriously saying that the majority would MUCH rather fly 2+10 hours than 3+9 hours?

How do other members feel about this?
AY and ANA rock!
 
panamandy
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:32 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:09 am

dont care at all!

i flew vie/fra/sin, vie/cph/gru, vie/fra/dxb, vie/fra/bom, vie/fra/jnb

everything in the other direction first !

as soon as price, quality and safety is ok everything works !
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:26 am

Hi UpperDeck79!

Lot's of people here have their mind mentalized to fly to major hubs like LHR, FRA or ORY. If you come to a point that a ticket price via HEL is € 650,00 plus taxes and via AMS or FRA is €700,00 plus taxes, they will prefer to get over a close airport! I can understand yr. point and I just didn't do it because unfortunetely no space to get to HEL, otherwise the other flights were plenty of seats, and when I tried to book the trip was in January 2005 and the flight from BCN to HEL was already full!!!! But I'm sure if I had that chance people would come to me and say - "Why are u going via HEL???? That's too far away!!!" Maybe there is still a tabu for portuguese to be in one side of Europe and need to get to the other side of Europe, the middle will be the wisest choise!!! Anyway I'm still chasing a new oportunity in the future!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
keno
Posts: 1809
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 5):
So you are seriously saying that the majority would MUCH rather fly 2+10 hours than 3+9 hours?

Nobody wants that extra hours but the problem is most people are still unaware that the shortest route (hopefully cheapest too) between Portugal and Japan is via Finland. Most people still think that the only way to travel to the other side of the world is via the larger European hubs.

Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:51 pm

If SAS is doing badly on intercontinental routes, then they had better look to other routes than Seattle-Copenhagen. This route has been consistently one of the best producing routes on SAS entire system. On average the route runs an annual load factor of 85%, nearly 100% in the summer months and they can charge a premium now because traveling via Copenhagen is much easier than transiting either Amsterdam or Heathrow. People who fly from Seattle tend to fly over the pole rather than go via the eastern US, since it saves 6 hours at least, and on balance, the service is better on BA and SK. Especially SK.

While SK definitely has a problem with its J class product (not up to "bed" standard), it goes out full almost all the time, since the timing of the flights now allow for more connections to/from central Europe. Since BA is the only bed product out of Seattle, SAS tends to be quite competitive against NW, although since NW has switched to the A330 on Amsterdam, that situation may change a little.

SAS does not do well in other markets, because of the fact that most of the traffic to/from the other US gateways is mostly traffic to/from Scandinavia. From Seattle, the traffic goes beyond Scandinavia into Europe and into the Middle East, which makes Seattle very different than other SK routes. What SK will have to figure out now is how can they market themselves so that they can garner a larger percentage of the beyond Scandinavia traffic. If they can figure that out, then they will do much better than they are on the North Atlantic.

One thing, DON'T TOUCH SEATTLE! Its doing just fine, thank you.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:59 pm

The same article mentioned by the thread starter also said that if SAS can get the finances in order, then they might think about increasing their long haul flights afterwards.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 9):
(not up to "bed" standard),

Will be soon! SAS are changing their J-class seats this coming winter
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:04 pm

Quoting KEno (Reply 8):
Don't blame the general public for being unaware of this, Finnair should have done their marketing and promotion better.

1) I never blamed the general public. I was asking CV990 if HE really thinks that is the way things stand.

2) Finnair does not serve Portugal on scheduled flights, so there is little marketing to be done in Portugal. I believe the mentality in Spain (where AY flies both MAD and BCN) is different because of the marketing etc.
AY and ANA rock!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:21 pm

Hi UpperDeck79!

Did you see my post when I told how people think? Well that's the way they think.... not me, but I'm just a minority in this matter and maybe because I understand this the same way has you.... but what can I do? I think mostly portuguese don't really feel connected with Scandinavia and Northern Europe has a hub!!!
I feel sad that AY left Portugal in the past, specially taking in mind that Portugal is a popular place for vacations and they used to regulary fly to LIS via MAD. But they still have charter flights to FAO with 757's.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
FBU 4EVER!
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 6:53 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:23 pm

There are plans to lease 2 A330-200's (new-build a/c) to expand the Intercont. routes.However,the Board of Directors will not grant the Intercont. Division permission to go ahead with the plans until SAS' financial situation has improved. The requirement to save a further 450-500 million Kroner concers all of SAS,not just Intercont.,and is part of the Turnaround-2005 plan which is not yet completed.

I will be transferring from my beloved MD-80 onto the A340 this coming winter,and when that happens I think we'll see a few new routes added to our network.Most likely Asian destinations out of STO.

And yes,SAS will add new sleeper seats in Business Class.Enjoy!
"Luck and superstition wins all the time"!
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1945
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:40 pm

Quoting Breiz (Thread starter):
It is also mentioned that the long-haul activity has never been profitable

That was one of the arguments for closing the OSL-EWR twice so far this millennium. The flights went out with relatively high load factors but yields were too low to make a profit.

My auntie flew in EuroClass on that route many times, mostly on the 767, and told me that many seats had to be empty so that a few seats could be converted into sleeper seats/beds. The seats behind would thus be useless as there was no room left. No wonder it wasn't profitable...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:45 pm

I always thought that SAS has a geat potential to produce high load factors towards asia. Many European routes actually pass over Scandinavia or not too far to get to Asia. I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24601
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:53 pm

SAS officials have been in close talks with MIA about launching service to the airport. Still a ways off...November 2006 is the earliest the flights would launch, but I put my money on MIA being their next North American city. Before that, though, expect to see Stockholm get a flight to a current Asian destination, possibly Shanghai. The Swedish media has been reporting this.
a.
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:13 am

Does anyone have a link showing what the new Business class seats will look like? Any further information would be appreciated.

Thanks

HanginOut
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 16):
I think CPH or ARN could be some sort of hub for flights towards Asia

If HEL can be one, then CPH and ARN should at least have the same potential, if not a bigger potential, since these cities are bigger also. One advantage that HEL has, though, is the airport terminal, which in my view is far better for connections than ARN or CPH.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:59 pm

SAS with bed seats in J class will clean up in Seattle. I mean clean up big time. Can you imagine, a bed seat and SAS service? That is something people here will pay for without batting an eye.

Good move SAS. Of course, this will really damage NW more than BA, since BA's traffic is more O&D SEA-LON. However, if there is a choice of carriers to central Europe, who will you take, NW to AMS on the 330, or SK to CPH on the 340?

From Seattle, you will probably end up on Northwest, because the SAS flight will be so booked up there will not be another choice  Smile

I'll be interested to see which seat product they choose for their J class product. There are so many choices out there...

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
scandinavian
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2000 2:19 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:58 pm

Here is a link showing the new business class seat:

http://wpy.observer.se/wpyfs/00/00/0...%20utan%20linjer%20utan%20text.JPG

The new pitch is 61,5 inches compared to today's 50.
"He was a wise man who invented beer"-Platon
 
yago
Posts: 228
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:28 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:03 pm

My best long haul flight was with SAS to New Delhi... wonderful experience.

I would love to see the 777 and the 787 in SAS colours  Smile
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:13 pm

I rather think SAS has enough aircarft types in its fleet! It dosent need to add any new types, although the fleet managers are probably at this moment, in their wisdom, planning to order A380s, 777300s and a couple of 787-3s while leasing in a couple of 757s. Big grin
 
Maersk737
Posts: 654
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:37 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:19 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 23):
although the fleet managers are probably at this moment, in their wisdom, planning to order A380s, 777300s and a couple of 787-3s while leasing in a couple of 757s.

I don't think so, but you will never know what these fleet planners are planning Big grin

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:25 pm

Especially the loonies that work in SAS fleet planning!
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:02 am

Quoting Scandinavian (Reply 21):
Here is a link showing the new business class seat:

http://wpy.observer.se/wpyfs/00/00/0...%20utan%20linjer%20utan%20text.JPG

The new pitch is 61,5 inches compared to today's 50.

Thanks for the link Scandinavian

Although the seat looks really nice (pod style for privacy), I'm not a fan of the angled lie flat seats. Hopefully, SAS will go for a truly flat seat.  pray 

HanginOut
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:34 am

Hi!

I just arrived a few hours ago from OSL and I had the chance to read SAS magazine and also see their network. Well I must say I was a bit surprised with their network.... I was expecting a bit more or I was not aware about SAS changes in these last few years! They have 4 destinations in USA ( when did they stopped LAX? ) they have China, Japan and Singapore and in the Middle East; Beirut and Teehran. Now my question would be, SAS did have some flights to North Africa and Middle East ( Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc )? Also SAS flew to South America and when was that dropped? And in the end did SAS ever flew to anyplace in Africa, like South Africa?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
scandinavian
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2000 2:19 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 27):
Also SAS flew to South America and when was that dropped? And in the end did SAS ever flew to anyplace in Africa, like South Africa?

Hi CV990!

Indeed, SAS did fly to South America. They flow to both Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. I think that the flights to South America finished in 1991.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pedro Aragão
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



The flight to South Africa finished in 1986.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © John Kelly



Los Angeles was served until the late eighties?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ted Quackenbush



Regards!
"He was a wise man who invented beer"-Platon
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:35 am

seeing that picture of SAS 747 reminds me of prior mistakes with fleet planning. The 747 was far too big for SKs needs and was soon disposed of. They then made the same mistake when they aquired A300s for European services. They found them too big too and got shut quickly.

It made me realise that SK has always been a basket case when it comes to fleet planning!
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:14 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 27):
SAS did have some flights to North Africa and Middle East ( Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc )?

The stopped flying to Israel when the Palestinian terror exploded in 2000.

Quoting Scandinavian (Reply 28):
Los Angeles was served until the late eighties?

I believe they still had LAX flights until approximately the middle of the 90s.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
baw716
Posts: 1460
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:47 pm

Most of the 747s SK had were combis. They carried only about 180-200 pax and two zones of cargo. Of course, this was in the 70s and 80s when the dragon was still painted on the fuselage.

My first flight to Europe was on Ivar Viking, on a special SEA-OSL (Gardermoen)-CPH sector, with a group of Norwegian military officers on board. I had been upgraded to F class and of course at 18, very impressionable, the service outstanding, the first time crossing Greenland at sunrise is a sight I will remember for the rest of my life. The other 747s I have flown were Magnus Viking and Knut Viking. I understand Magnus Viking was lost after it had been leased to another carrier in Spain.

There were many flights that I flew the DC-10 from SEA-CPH, at least 15 round trips between 1982-1989 before they took the DC-10 out of service. My last two flights home from Copenhagen, I was fortunate to be upgraded to First again (my status as a RVC member travel agency had something to do with that), the flights home were memorable; but the one in 1988, was a magnificant event. It was a Christmas themed flight and a special menu of winter Scandinavian delicacies were offered for luncheon on that flight. For the four of us in F (ten seats, four passengers), it was truly 10 hours of heaven above the earth.

My honeymoon started onboard the new 767 in October 1990 as I flew with my new wife from Seattle via Copenhagen to Spain, then back via Stockholm and Newark to the Caribbean for 10 days. She had never flown SAS and of course from then on became an SAS lover; the staff in Seattle had set up a special cake for us to be served on board with a special champagne toast, so to say that SAS has treated me well over the years would be a major understatement. Of course, I have reciprocated over the years by giving them millions of dollars of revenue through managing the international department of the largest travel company in the Pacific Northwest in the 1980s, before my career took me into the airline business myself in 1992.

My point for this post is the following: Seattle and SAS have a special relationship. OK, we've been a little curious about some of the aircraft choices over the years, but to us, it never really mattered. We filled up the planes anyway and sent them to Copenhagen, all year round. This is why Seattle survived while LAX did not. LAX did not have the loyal following that SAS has here. In LAX, there are many choices to Europe. Here, there are very few. Really, we don't need many, since most of us choose SAS to fly to Europe if we are traveling beyond London. Now that NW has arrived on the scene, there has been room for growth, but I can assure you that NW fills their flight only seasonally and SAS fills their plane year round, and charges more money than NW does for their flight to Amsterdam.

You can't understand why until you have flown SAS to/from Europe from Seattle. Once you have, its pretty hard to fly anyone else. This is why Seattle-Copenhagen is one of the top producing routes in SAS system.

So when they talk about SAS long haul being in trouble, they need to figure out what they are doing to the East Coast of the US. As I understand it, SAS does very well to Asia, and if they do well here, the problem is the East Coast.

So, fix the problem. You've been flying to Seattle for almost 50 years. We aren't going to give up on you now.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
scandinavian
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2000 2:19 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:05 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
Especially the loonies that work in SAS fleet planning!

I guess that you don´t like those who works in SAS fleet planning!  Smile

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 31):
You can't understand why until you have flown SAS to/from Europe from Seattle. Once you have, its pretty hard to fly anyone else.

I flow with SAS on this route last October, and indeed the service and the flight was great! Especially the food on the outbound from CPH to SEA. Probably the best food that I have ever enjoyed up in the sky.

The intercontinental load factor was 86,9% in August, driven by strong growth on the Asian traffic. I don´t know how the load factors are to the East Coast, but at least this summer the flights have been very full from ARN to EWR and ORD.
"He was a wise man who invented beer"-Platon
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:28 pm

Hi!

Gee..... SAS had a lot of long-haul flights back to the 80's!!!! Any particular reason why they stopped specially the South America ones, LAX and JNB? Load factors or just cost saving? I think if it was a reason to save it was a wise decision, see what happened to Swissair, they had such a huge heavy network and just crashed after 9/11!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Matt27
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 9:53 pm

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:10 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 33):
Any particular reason why they stopped specially the South America ones, LAX and JNB? Load factors or just cost saving?

Both. The routes to South America and LAX weren't profitable. I don't know about JNB, did SAS actually go there?

//Mattias
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:56 pm

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 34):
I don't know about JNB, did SAS actually go there?

They did fly there a millenium ago, but I believe it was cancelled for political reasons. This was during the apartheid era.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
OYRJA
Posts: 2577
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:05 pm

SAS also flew CPH-LOS for a couple of years back in the 80's.
 
LCH
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:19 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:42 pm

Baw716: The 747 that was lost was leased to Avianca of Colombia, but it chrashed in Spain.

As for the rumours about MIA, I don't know what to think. I always thought the next destination in the USA would be SFO, as they had already announced CPH-SFO prior to 9/11, but backed out.

On the other hand, danish LCC Sterling earlier year announced plans to fly to Florida (and I think they have applied for rights) but postponed them due to the takeover of Mearsk Airs operations. MIA might be SAS' answer to this, in fact, lately, they have shown a nasty tendency of copying other carriers. It may very well be coincidences of course, but to name a few examples: SAS have never flown to LCY, yet within weeks of BA's decision to start CPH-LCY with 328, SAS announced the same route with a DH4. Also, they have closed down OSL-EWR twice in a few years time, due to low yield. Then, enter CO, and SAS starts rambling about leasing 757s, 767s or 332s to start OSL-EWR AGAIN. All of a sudden, they think they can make money on the route in competition with CO, when they previously couldn't make money when they were alone on the route.

My theory is that OSL-EWR was closed because SAS wanted to route traffic through CPH, and fill those planes, but then realised that it was better to fly passengers non-stop themselves rather than having them fly on CO. Thankfully, the plans to resume OSL-EWR seem to have been put on ice for the time beeing.

[Edited 2005-09-08 15:45:16]
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:54 pm

Hi!

OSL is one of those examples that I still need to figure out in the SAS strategy. It seems that OSL is well served in most of European capitals but if we want to see in the rest of the world OSL looks a bit outside CPH or ARN, and I can't understand why when Norway plays a big share ( or doesn't!?!? ) in SAS strategy! It would be AT LEAST FARE that OSL should have one intercontinental flight, and that would be no doubt USA taking in attention that there's a large community in Minnesota and other close states. My position should be that if SAS wants to route norwegian traffic to both CPH and ARN, they should also route some traffic via OSL too, my guess would be infacty ORD has the best flight via OSL, this is just trying to be fate for norwegian share in SAS but I'm don't know if this would help or not!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:57 pm

Quoting CV990 (Reply 27):
Now my question would be, SAS did have some flights to North Africa and Middle East ( Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. etc )?

Yes once SAS had a daily plane to ATH which on alternate dates continued on to DAM, AMM or BEY
Also they have served JED and RUH, both nonstop and via ATH, if I am not very mistaken they also routed the NBO flight through JED at some point.

POS used to be on the map aswel served through DUS of all places.

Also The GIG/GRU flight at one time served SCL/MVD/BUE
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:55 am

If we go WAY back in time, then SK served all kinds of international destinations. When Braathen's (now a part of SAS) was established, their first route was from Oslo to Hong Kong with a million stop-overs in between.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Future Of SAS Long-haul Division

Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting Matt27 (Reply 34):
Quoting CV990 (Reply 33):
Any particular reason why they stopped specially the South America ones, LAX and JNB? Load factors or just cost saving?

Both. The routes to South America and LAX weren't profitable. I don't know about JNB, did SAS actually go there?

Nowadays I think that South America is not an important turistic destination (while it could be) but keeps a strong Nordic base of investments. SAS keep code sharing RG CPH-LHR-GRU flight and Sweden invested some billions of US$ in Brazil (specially in Curitiba where they keep Volvo, Electrolux and some small business facilities). Norway with oil related business and Finland (with Nokia) also do some major investments. One day i expect to see SAS back to Brazil and to South America.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !