industrybuff
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:36 am

TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:59 am

Hi All

Ive heard that TG are having some issues with their A340-600's, I suspect teething tech problems ? Any news on this ...

Im due to travel ex MEL to BKK tomorrow on Aan A346 and Im really looking forward to it ........

Cheers
 
AlitaliaMD11
Posts: 3704
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:19 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:15 am

I know that they are having some problems with the A340-500 beacuse the A340-600 has flown the BKK-JFK route with a stop in KIX.
No Vueling No Party
 
gearup
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 9:23 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:05 am

Quoting Industrybuff (Thread starter):
Ive heard that TG are having some issues with their A340-600's, I suspect teething tech problems ?

Integrating a new type is always a dodgy time. I have often wondered though how some airlines do very well and others go through the wringer! Now I do not know for sure (maybe someone on A.net can enlighten us) but it seems to me that Lufthansa's A346 integration went smoothly. What is often attributed to the aircraft is sometimes really the airlines unfamiliarity with the new type. Some airlines like Lufthansa (and many others) really spend a lot of time, money and effort preparing their flight crews, maintenance and engineering for the new type.
Without adequate training, a simple tech snag can ground an aircraft if your people haven't a clue how to fix it, or if you do not have spares. I am not suggesting that this is the case with TG (in fact I doubt it) but it can take awhile to get all your people up to snuff especially in the outstations.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:11 pm

TG are normally quite thorough so I'm a little surprised by this all. I did hear about some issues with the 500 not the 600 though.

YOWza
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5005
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:03 pm

"I heard a roumor that bla bla bla"........

Are we going this path again? Source, thx!

Micke//SE  Yeah sure  zzz 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:08 pm

TG has been operating the A346 on BKK-MEL vv since 1 AUG.
During this month the flight has been cancelled twice.
I don't know the reasons for it [perhaps light loads], but to assume that its because its a new aircraft type is stretching it a little...
 
cloud4000
Posts: 475
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:38 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:54 am

I can only imagine the teething problems airlines will have when the 380 goes online.
Boston, USA
 
Adria
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 7:53 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:25 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 6):
I can only imagine the teething problems airlines will have when the 380 goes online.

yap but I don't think that those problems will be so big like UA had when the 777 was put in service
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:42 am

ooooh this thread is turning NASTY!

Lets compare dispatch reliability of the 777 vs. the whole A340 line, shall we?

Last time I checked the A340 was a dog compared to the 777, anyone have the dispatch numbers handy?
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:49 am

So it seems that A340 numbers are hard to come by  Wink

But using Flight International as a source we can see that Virgin failed to maintain even a 98.5% dispacth rate on their A346 fleet in the first year of Ops, while the 773ER (with a lot more aircraft) achieved a rate of 99.2%

So, lets say Virgin achieved 98% with the A346 (doubtful sounds much lower) the Airbus is 3 times more likely to 'go tech' than the Boieng 773ER.

Facts don't lie  Smile

Sources:

http://www.flightinternational.com/A.../06/14/199069/Distant+Rivalry.html
http://www.flightinternational.com/A...5/05/03/197483/The+long+hello.html
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 6):
I can only imagine the teething problems airlines will have when the 380 goes online.

That must of taken you a whole five minutes to think up. You pick on the 380 but no mention of the 787, is that an anti European thing or something. Can't we build planes?

But I suppose as the 787 is going to cure cancer, destroy poverty and bring world peace, oh yeah and be the greatest aircraft ever built it will have no tech problems at all.  banghead 
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:04 am

if anything the 787 will prob. have even more problems than the A380, at least from what we know about both planes...Boeing is trying quite afew new things with the '87, hopefully it will all pan out  Smile
 
keesje
Posts: 8589
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:16 am

Virgin Atlantic CEO Steve Ridgway on the A340-600, AirInternational, May 2005.



"The A340-600s have a phenomenal performance, particularly on some of our longer sectors, and they have fantastic cargo uplift, which is particularly useful on many of the market that we fly to-in particular Shanghai, Hong Kong and Johannesburg. In terms of our business, cargo accounts for some 10% of the company turnover."

And Yes, Boeing tried hard to make them buy the 777-300ER. Get over it.

http://picavia.foxalpha.com/photos/0104/002542.jpg
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:29 am

Well that useless bit of predictable PR tells us about its performance.
Your pretty pictures do not make the argument of reliability any less valid

This article shows use things ar enot as rosey as Airbus Cheerleaders here want to beleive:
http://www.flightinternational.com/A...5/05/03/197483/The+long+hello.html

[Edited 2005-08-30 22:31:08]
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:38 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 14):
This article shows use things ar enot as rosey as Airbus Cheerleaders here want to beleive:
http://www.flightinternational.com/A....html

Well the article also shows us that the A340-500/600 is not as bad an aircraft that the Boeing fan boys would have us believe.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:46 am

next time we have a discussion about cargo we will be sure to give you a shout...haha
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 14):
as Airbus Cheerleaders here want to beleive:

What Airbus cheerleaders on this thread?

Clickhappy? Leelaw? Yourself? Hardly. And I wouldn't call Solnabo's post "cheerleading".

I'm fully expecting NAV20 to turn up in a post or two, announcing, yet again, the downfall of the House of Airbus.

 wave 

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
What Airbus cheerleaders on this thread?

Clickhappy? Leelaw? Yourself? Hardly. And I wouldn't call Solnabo's post "cheerleading".

I'm fully expecting NAV20 to turn up in a post or two, announcing, yet again, the downfall of the House of Airbus.

wave

cheers

mariner

I meant the forum in general, and I think you knew that.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 16):
Well the article also shows us that the A340-500/600 is not as bad an aircraft that the Boeing fan boys would have us believe.

Quite so.
Though its hardly enough to discount all issues.

I know off hand of a few issue CS and IB are having. But as I cannot link to a public source, I'm not even going to start mentioning them.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 19):
I meant the forum in general, and I think you knew that.

No, I did not know that.

Nor do I see that it would apply to the forum in general.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:02 am

he just likes to play dumb. I've seen it in too many threads for it to be a coincidence, but that's cool, too each their own!
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
he just likes to play dumb. I've seen it in too many threads for it to be a coincidence, but that's cool, too each their own!

Oh I see, thanx for the heads up.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 10):
But using Flight International as a source we can see that Virgin failed to maintain even a 98.5% dispacth rate on their A346 fleet in the first year of Ops, while the 773ER (with a lot more aircraft) achieved a rate of 99.2%

Going back to what you said here, it's actually easier to have better looking stats with more aircraft in the field then less. One A340-600 goes tech puts a bigger dent into the stats of that fleet then one 773ER going tech does to that fleet. How does the saying go, lies, damned lies and statistics.

You should try reading the articles you post, try this quote from the FI article from Cathay's head of engineering. You should also take some maths lessons.  Wink

Cridland declines to provide the fleet's dispatch reliability, saying with such a small fleet this figure can be skewed.
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:06 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 24):
Going back to what you said here, it's actually easier to have better looking stats with more aircraft in the field then less. One A340-600 goes tech puts a bigger dent into the stats of that fleet then one 773ER going tech does to that fleet. How does the saying go, lies, damned lies and statistics.

You should try reading the articles you post, try this quote from the FI article from Cathay's head of engineering. You should also take some maths lessons. Wink

Cridland declines to provide the fleet's dispatch reliability, saying with such a small fleet this figure can be skewed.

Nice attempt at twisting.

The reliability factor was per plane for the VS comments.

Clearly, per plane the a346 has had a lackluster realiability factor. Not all down to Airbus though. The RR Trent has had its fare share of teething issues.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:09 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
he just likes to play dumb.

Much as I am flattered that you bother to read so many posts of mine, I simply respond to what others write.

I do not assume, as you have just assumed.

But I do wonder why so many here feel the need to make it personal.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting GARPD (Reply 25):
Nice attempt at twisting.

The reliability factor was per plane for the VS comments.

Er no it's not a lie or a twist, it's basic maths, you should try it.  Wink

Quoting GARPD (Reply 25):
Clearly, per plane the a346 has had a lackluster realiability factor. Not all down to Airbus though. The RR Trent has had its fare share of teething issues

I don't really give a toss about you Boeing fan boys having a pop at Airbus, I don't really care for either manufacturer, but having a go at Roll Royce engines is a different matter entirely, this means war.  box  Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 27):
I don't really give a toss about you Boeing fan boys having a pop at Airbus, I don't really care for either manufacturer, but having a go at Roll Royce engines is a different matter entirely, this means war.

I'm not a Boeing boy

I'm very proud of Rolls Royce. They've built some of the worlds most reliable and/ore famour engines. Merlin, RB211, Conways,, etc.
I mean, take the Merlin for example... an engine so good the yanks stuck them in their P51s to get one of the faster (or was it THE?) prop plane of WWII.

Alas, the Trent 800's have been having a hard time of it

[Edited 2005-08-30 23:19:24]
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:20 am

the posts I read of yours are the ones where our paths cross, and I smell a trend. No worries, its who you are.

I was using VS fleet numbers, not CX.

Here is a graph (although dated) from Boeing, sources used for the figures are on the bottom



Since this go back to 2002 I assume they are comparing the A340-200/300 to the Boeing 777-200/200ER/300

[Edited 2005-08-30 23:24:01]
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 29):
Here is a graph (although dated) from Boeing,

You are about to be pounced upon from a great height for that.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:33 am

Why, because the numbers come from Boeing?

Thats fine, lets throw out all numbers supplied by Boeing and Airbus...show me one article, ANYWHERE, that shows a member of the A340 family has a higher dispatch rate (or any other measurement of reliability) than that of the 777 family.

Airbus makes fine planes, and I would say that the A320 is beating the 737 family right now, and the A330 is a more advanced and economical aircraft when compared to the 767, but the 777 kicks the A340's ass six ways to Sunday. Don't come at me with 4 engines for blah blah blah or quieter cabins, im talking about economics.

Put up or shut up!
 
Gman94
Posts: 1167
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 32):
Airbus makes fine planes, and I would say that the A320 is beating the 737 family right now, and the A330 is a more advanced and economical aircraft when compared to the 767, but the 777 kicks the A340's ass six ways to Sunday. Don't come at me with 4 engines for blah blah blah or quieter cabins, im talking about economics.

Yeah but the 777 doesn't looks as good. Big grin
British Airways - The Way To Fly
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 32):
show me one article, ANYWHERE, that shows a member of the A340 family has a higher dispatch rate

Um - hate to say this - but I think he was being ironic.

At least, I assumed he was.  Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 32):
but the 777 kicks the A340's ass six ways to Sunday.

Ah! So that was the reason for the AF A340 crash! It was kicked by a 777! Now, let's have some real conspiracy theories here that Boeing has been behind all A340 diversions and problems over the years!!!
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 32):
Why, because the numbers come from Boeing?

Thats fine, lets throw out all numbers supplied by Boeing and Airbus...show me one article, ANYWHERE, that shows a member of the A340 family has a higher dispatch rate (or any other measurement of reliability) than that of the 777 family.

Airbus makes fine planes, and I would say that the A320 is beating the 737 family right now, and the A330 is a more advanced and economical aircraft when compared to the 767, but the 777 kicks the A340's ass six ways to Sunday. Don't come at me with 4 engines for blah blah blah or quieter cabins, im talking about economics.

Put up or shut up!

No no you misunderstand
I meant that some Airbus fany boy would pounce on you for using a chart "From Boeing" the using bias, spin, twist etc excused would be used.

Ans as some B fanboys do with folks quote Airbus sources.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:46 am

When faced with facts that dont support your arguement, revert to insults.

No worries, the 777 is still the superior aircraft.

And the A340 is going the way of the do do bird.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:46 am

While entertaining, does anyone currently actually remember what this thread is about?

Just to remind you - it's not about the B777's dispatch reliability compared to the A340's rate; nor is it about the reasons why VS, or anyone else, bought the A346 or what issues they might or might not have with it; it's not even about the A320 beating (or being beat by) the B737; and it sure isn't about Boeing or Airbus fans, fanatics or lunatics...

If you want to discuss those, why don't you just open up a new thread about it?

So they're having teething problems - maybe more than teething problems; unusual? No. Unfortunate? Yes. Will they be solved? Hopefully.

If there's anyone here who might have something at least resembling factual information, I'd really like to hear it - but the old "I heard it from a friend, ..." is just so old and boring...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
whitehatter
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 6:52 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:41 am

I don't suppose we heard any of this cheerleading when TG had major problems with their new 777 aircraft and were even threatening cancellation....or when British Airways engineers were calling theirs the Cripple Seven...or when United were struggling with reliability issues...

This thread is just like any other, with US posters hijacking it to trash Airbus and cheerlead for Boeing. Pathetic. Maybe Johan should reserve the domain bashairbus.com and rename the site.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
When faced with facts that dont support your arguement, revert to insults.

Who are you addressing? Who reverted to insults?

Certainly not GARPD, as he pointed out. And I was trying to be helpful.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
No worries, the 777 is still the superior aircraft.

It may very well be. What does that have to do with this thread?

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 35):
And the A340 is going the way of the do do bird.

Maybe. That isn't what the thread is about.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
PA110
Posts: 1897
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 37):
This thread is just like any other, with US posters hijacking it to trash Airbus and cheerlead for Boeing. Pathetic. Maybe Johan should reserve the domain bashairbus.com and rename the site.

Oh please! Spare us the hyperbole. Both sides share the blame equally. Both sides are far too defensive, and overreact to any statements the other side makes.

Another reason to immediately lock any A vs B thread immediately.

Oh and Industrybuff... you've been a member for long enough to know not to start a thread with "I heard..." You're just begging to start trouble, which is exactly what you got.

Mods - kindly lock this thread!
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
User avatar
clickhappy
Posts: 9042
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 12:10 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:57 am

Mariner

Sadly I am unable to speak my mind due to my status as crew. Last time I did so you complained to Johan and I got slapped around.

Have a nice day  Smile
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4296
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:12 am

I suggest deletion of this threat. We all know that a) Airbus is Crap b) 777 and 787 are the most modern airliners of the world c) the A340 is crap d) Airbus never built modern airliners.

And no, I am not blind and I know that the a340 is not the most brilliant airliner airbus has ever built. But it was a vital stone in Airbus's concept of offering a complete product line of modern, FBW controlled airliners which helped airbus to a) get more than 50% market share and b) force Boeing to finally develop something new, which they finally did by developing new variants of the 777 and now the 787 which will be a great leap forward.

Competition made the A380 possible, it made the 787 possible and so on. If there was no competition, FBW, Bleedless engines and so on would never have made it onto airliners.

And don't forget, Airbus managed to do something that McDD never achieved: They got a product line which made it possible to compete with Boeing on all new orders. Therefore, it is no problem that the A340 might be inferior to the 777. Airbus has the edge on the A330, and when they lose that to the 787, they might fight back with the A350.

I can live with the fact that both Boeing and Airbus offer quality products. Why can some people not do that?

To get on topic, I do not know whether TG had problems. But I know that Lufthansa ordered more A340s after the initial batch. They evaluated it against the 777 and ordered it anyway. LH would not have done that if it was as bad as some people try to tell us. This is not a criticism against the people who posted in this thread, it is a general comment on many threats about this issue.

Michael
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18090
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:33 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 40):
Last time I did so you complained to Johan and I got slapped around.

Whoa - I have no memory of complaining to Johann about you.

The only time I have written to Johan is about my financial status. I then questioned the lack of reply.

I don't believe I have ever found it necessary to hide behind others. If I am mistaken, would you please provide clarification.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
checkraiser
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 41):
I suggest deletion of this threat. We all know that a) Airbus is Crap b) 777 and 787 are the most modern airliners of the world c) the A340 is crap d) Airbus never built modern airliners.

You forgot to mention that Airbus receives illegal subsidies.  Big grin
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
User avatar
garpd
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: TG's A340-600's And Their Reliability

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:55 am

Oi vey!  banghead 

....
arpdesign.wordpress.com

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ACDC8, ASFlyer, Baidu [Spider], bill142, doulasc, ek17, gregn21, hoons90, jvnjunior, mstx44, Prinair, rohanb2, Yahoo [Bot] and 205 guests