MAH4546
Topic Author
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:09 pm

You always here about the increased heralded in PRs, and never the decreases. About a month ago, Westjet bragged about heavy increases in Calgary-Florida service. Orlando was going up to 4x weekly (from 2x) and Fort Lauderdale to 3x weekly (from 1x). Those have been reduced. Both have been cut to twice weekly, FLL operating MoFr and MCO operating WeSu. Not a big deal or anything, but looks like the increased service was problably a little too much capacity, especially with AC entering MCO-YYC.
a.
 
JetCaptain
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 2:57 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:00 pm

Anyone have a list of Westjets routes that didn't work ? Some that come to mind ....

Hamilton - Ottawa/Montreal
Brandon - Calgary
Winnipeg - Thompson
Gander - Ottawa/Halifax
Toronto - Los Angeles
Toronto - La Guardia
Windsor - Calgary
Ottawa - Halifax

You really gotta wonder sometimes if they really know what they are doing ? Yes they were very successful in the past, when they were sticking to their original business plan, but now they appear to be expanding too fast. It will be interesting to see where they are going to put all these new planes they are getting over the next couple of years.

JC
 
MX757
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:06 pm

Maybe they are going into their fall schedule???
Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
 
Tennisace
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:22 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:26 pm

Prince George - Victoria/Calgary
Sault Saint Marie - Winnipeg/Toronto
Sudbury - Winnipeg/Toronto
Abbotsford - Hamilton
Montreal - London (cancelled before it started?)
St. John's - Ottawa
Ottawa - Vancouver (ending this fall?)
Comox - Edmonton
Abbotsford - Edmonton
Edmonton - Ottawa/Montreal
Moncton - Montreal
Kelowna - Hamilton
(I could be wrong about the last three...would have to go back and check their press releases)

I agree, I think Westjet is nearing maximum 'buildout' in North America. Being a publicly traded company, investors have come to expect growth, growth, and more growth from them. Something's gotta hit the fan.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:50 pm

Halifax-Montreal as well
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:43 pm

I have been surprised at the rate of WS expansion. Canada is a huge country, but with a small population, so just where are all their clients going to come from? No point in starting a fare war with AC. I think people are probably flying more than ever before, but I'm guessing that if fares rise due to high oil prices, then a percentage of people won't be able to fly any more. I'm talking bottom end here, but imagine the people,thanks to low fares who've been able to fly say YYC YYZ 2x a year because they've only paid $200, but now it's $300 so they only go once.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting MX757 (Reply 2):
Maybe they are going into their fall schedule???

Most Cdn airlines tend to increase their southern flying in the fall and winter, not decrease it.

Ask anyone from WJ and you'll hear how there are many many routes that will be started, but you never get any details. It may slowly be sinking in amongst some in YYC that the days of unlimited growth are over, and the 737 isn't going to make money for them on every route they decide to try it out on.
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4953
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:02 am

Does anybody know how many extra aircraft they are committed to beyond the replacement of the 737-200's?
I think AC is going to give them big trouble with their new Embraer fleet. They will be able to fly sectors with this type against WJ and make money; WJ will struggle to make money against this type.
 
yeggerman
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:31 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:46 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 7):
They will be able to fly sectors with this type against WJ and make money; WJ will struggle to make money against this type.

Depending on the sector it would be a toss up, even though AC will have the smaller planes and don't need to fill as many seats, WS will and still does already have cargo on almost all their planes (I know AC does cargo too), but WS accounts for it per route, so they may have more seats to fill, but they can handle cargo as well.

Also, I am not sure how much a difference this will make, but AC has already shown the affects of having a smaller plane by lowering their baggage limit. So there is one disadvantage, you now either take less (which everyone should anyways) or pay an extra fee for bringing the same amount baggage you used to be. Now I am not sure if the delivery cost of bulked out luggage will go up because of this or if that would make a difference at all, but it is something to think about when trying to figure out who is going to do better on routes or not.
"All great things must come to an end"
 
accargo
Posts: 576
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:19 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting Yeggerman (Reply 8):
Depending on the sector it would be a toss up, even though AC will have the smaller planes and don't need to fill as many seats, WS will and still does already have cargo on almost all their planes (I know AC does cargo too), but WS accounts for it per route, so they may have more seats to fill, but they can handle cargo as well.

Also, I am not sure how much a difference this will make, but AC has already shown the affects of having a smaller plane by lowering their baggage limit. So there is one disadvantage, you now either take less (which everyone should anyways) or pay an extra fee for bringing the same amount baggage you used to be. Now I am not sure if the delivery cost of bulked out luggage will go up because of this or if that would make a difference at all, but it is something to think about when trying to figure out who is going to do better on routes or not.

Was that a Yes, they will struggle or a No they won't struggle? BTW, AC moves cargo on 99% of it's routes.
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:07 am

WS' problem nowadays is their obsession with YYZ. They were by far at their most profitable when their eastern hub was YHM. They want just about everything east of YYZ to go thru YYZ or YYC.
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 11:25 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:16 pm

Andrew,

WestJet has no choice. YYZ is by far Canada's most relevant market. YHM just wont cut it for them. YHM is not a viable alternative for YYZ. The problem is YYZ becomes a very costly operation.
 
ac7e7
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:27 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting Yeggerman (Reply 8):
AC has already shown the affects of having a smaller plane by lowering their baggage limit.

AC has lowered their baggage limit due to increased fuel costs, not the introduction of smaller aircraft.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:02 am

Look at some of those routes posted and then take a reality check... a 737 simply cannot be operated profitably when running routes with fairly low demand, which is true of many of these pairings.

WestJet is in the business to make money... if increased services do not pan out and the results are below expectation, then reducing frequencies or cutting routes entirely is simply playing it smart... WestJet no longer has the comfort of almost unlimited expansion potential and massive quarterly profits... to remain competitive and viable, strategic planning is of the highest importance.

IMHO... RJ's should have been ordered long ago... WJ is going to take some real painful blows from AC once their current RJ order is fully online and operational.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
ACYWG
Posts: 259
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:20 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:54 am

I can't wait to see Clive Beddoe's face when he figures it out that AC is eating his lunch. Way to turn the tables on em' AC!
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:04 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:34 am

WestJet has gambled and sooner rather than later, they will see some real competition coming their way...

Take for example the LAS market. AC is introducing daily flights from YYC. HP will be flying daily using A319 aircraft from YEG starting this november in addition to dailies from YYC

LAX will see plenty of frequencies from YYC (AC, AS and WJ)....HOw does WJ think it will break even on these routes...

AC is going to gain even bigger share of the YYC market with the introduction of flights to places such as EWR and a more robust schedule utilizing those RJs. I am no AC fan, but like everything else, you can't keep on winning everyday...

Clive is giong to make tough decisions....
 
yeggerman
Posts: 142
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:31 pm

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:23 am

Quoting Accargo (Reply 9):
Was that a Yes, they will struggle or a No they won't struggle?

It is an I don't know, and nobody does right now, we all can sit here and be armchair CEO's of both companies, but until everyone is running their fleets and the numbers are in, it's too early to tell.

Based only on our opinions and fact sheets on each airplane does not equal the ability to accurately predict who is going to succeed and who is going to fail. There are way to many variable's to this equation to take into considerations at this time.
"All great things must come to an end"
 
Tennisace
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 2:22 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:55 pm

Also noticed that they're reducing YVR-LAX to 3x a week from daily! Unless they haven't loaded the updated winter sched. yet.
 
matt
Posts: 677
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:36 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:56 pm

Tennisace, you are right about Moncton-Montreal. It was (unfortunately) cancelled a while ago... and very short lived.

I've noticed that WestJet is doing more and more charter flights on behalf of Transat Holidays and other tour companies. For example, this winter alone, they will be operating 17 charter flights a week out of YHZ (to CCC, VRA, HOG, CUN, POP and PUJ) as well as one from YQM (to PUJ) and one from YYT (to VRA). Those flights were all operated by Air Transat a few years back. WestJet's smaller planes suit the market better and offer better frequencies. They will also be doing several charter flights out of Western Canada (and Central Canada I imagine).
Next flights: YQM-YOW-YOW / YQM-YYZ-CPH-YYZ-YQM / YQM-YUL-LYS-BRU-YUL-YQM / YQM-PUJ-YQM
 
kdonohue
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:26 am

RE: Westjet Reduce YYC-Florida Frequencies

Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:14 am

YVR-LAX on WestJet doesn't look daily in the winter, because I was pricing out a LAX-YVR ticket for middle of November and WestJet's fare was $800 for two tickets, and they routed through Calgary with a total travel time of 6 hours. Air Canada and Alaska were $300 cheaper and travel time was less $300. WestJet better get in the game.

K