kjet12
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Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:26 am

Note: This post is just a RUMOR I heard from a relative of mine at United.

Normally I am not one to post rumors I hear from my relatives at United, but this one was quite interesting. My relative was saying there is a rumor going around that United is going to purchase Polar Air Cargo as their new cargo division and will move their headquarters down to Honolulu. She also went on to say that the Hawaiian government is behind the plan and will do everything it can to help with the purchase and move. Apparently United already has a building they own that is sitting empty in Honolulu, so finding and purchasing a property is not really an issue.

I would like to gather your thoughts on this. Could this be a part of their exit strategy? United already had a cargo division that failed, could this new plan work out?

Kris
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uadc8contrail
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:00 am

united cargo #1 was a flop due to poor planning and the unreliability of the dc10s, i read this rumor about 2 months ago off a transcipt from a alpa(ua) meeting and top ual guys. if i can find it i will post it here. if it does become a reality i think it could work as long as you have alpa and other pertenant groups involved and on board. dont know if polar is alpa or not
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AA7573E
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:12 am

No way. Not a snowballs chance in hell it will happen. Tell me where they will get the money for the acquisition? They are taking out all debt financing to get out of BK, which will have strong covenants on it. There is no equity in the airline, and everything that they own is already encumbered, to the point that it has no value in terms of raising cash.

Hogwash.
See you up front!
 
HAL
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:15 am

Yes, Polar is ALPA. They are also in an ugly contract battle with their pilots. Two days after the National Mediation Board released the pilots/management into a 30 day cooling off period, management fired 24 probationary pilots and moved two of the 747-400's to sister carrier Atlas. ALPA is suing because the 30 day cooling off is supposed to be a 'status quo' period with no changes (i.e. firing, moving planes etc).

Also, UAL has precious little cash, and is still in bankruptcy to boot. I don't know if they would be able to purchase anything like that cargo division at this time.

All together, I don't think it looks like too good a match at this time.

HAL
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petertenthije
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:35 am

There might be a bit of a financial problem.

This story reminds me of a program I once saw on TV about SABENA. A new plane had been delivered and one of the SN employees said that as long as new planes where coming in, nothing could be wrong..... a few days later SN was no more. Sorry to say this, but your friend might be deluded.

[Edited 2005-08-30 20:37:51]
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FriendlySkies
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:44 am

Wasn't UA going to buy Atlas too? These rumors are getting too old and too numerous, I'll believe it when I see it.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:49 am

Has Atlas Air even indicated any willingness to sell Polar Air?

I'd think in United's current dismal financial situation the last thing on their list of priorities would be the acquisition of a non-core business... Where's the business-advantage of this transaction for United?

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
boffy1969
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:55 am

Hiya Guys, They couldnt afford it could they? Surely that would make them banckrupt, But i suppose its a gamble!!!!! maybe the president of United Airlines is in Vagus? LOL
Cheers John Bothwell
 
Boeing757/767
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:59 am

The common thread here is that Scott Dolan, formerly of Polar/Atlas, is now president of UA Cargo. That doesn't make the rumor true, however.
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MidnightMike
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:21 am

When I was at Polar about 10 years, they had the same rumor, another rumor was Northwest was going to purchase Polar.

I really do not think that Atlas would sell off Polar, Polar has some many landing rights that are hard to come by.....
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B744F
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:28 am

The only way UAL could purchase this was with outside venture capital help. But with their bad credit rating, and chapter 11, who would want to join with them in any business venture?
 
SRT75
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:48 am

First, to the nay-sayers. . . . $3 billion in exit financing and a bankruptcy process which saw the creation of a new division of United--Ted. This rumor is not impossible. (Perhaps improbable, but not impossible.)

Second, probably would be more of a "merger" involving stock as part of the purchase price.

Third, in addition to the mentioned HNL facility, UA has a relatively new and large cargo complex at LAX (an airport also served by Polar). Might be a good fit if UA wants to make a bid to become a major player in Asian cargo.
 
FA4UA
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:33 am

I've heard this rumor many times at work... makes sense operationally, just gotta have the pilots all on the same page.

How we're going to pay for it... dunno. But stranger things have happened! Cargo Carriers are where the money is anyways.

FA4UA
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777D
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:33 am

Is it possible that UAL might some how implement a cargo code share?
 
Avianca
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting 777D (Reply 13):
Is it possible that UAL might some how implement a cargo code share?

thats the only possibilty that I thought about, but for what routes? on the transpac it makes not sense for polar as the marekt if full and they could fill up the space without giving space to a partner..... and for europe it would be a bad deal for united, as united isn´t able to fill up the own pax planes with cargo and the md-cargo market is very very well served and the rates are going from day to day down...

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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ER757
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:03 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 1):
united cargo #1 was a flop due to poor planning and the unreliability of the dc10s

Actually that was United Cargo part 2. They had a large cargo operation in the early 80's using DC-8 freighters and a hub in ORD. I could be wrong on the reason for their dis-continuing these routes, but I seem to recall it was because they would have had to retro-fit all the DC-8's with new quieter engines and decided that it wasn't worth it since by that time they were flying a huge number of pax DC-10's which could carry a substantial amount of cargo in their bellies. Anyone who worked at UA at that time that can verify that or correct me if I'm wrong?
 
SFORunner
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:09 am

Enough! Who has a mock-up of a 744 in a would-be United Cargo livery using the new color scheme?
 
dc10rules
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:19 am

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 1):
united cargo #1 was a flop due to poor planning and the unreliability of the dc10s

I am a fan and was a frequent DC-10 flyer on UA (ORD-LAS, ORD-DTW, ORD-DEN to name a few)

I never experienced a delay except for wx.

Was I just lucky a lot or were the 10's a pain in the arse and unreliable as stated above?

Very curious.
 
HunUtazo
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:25 am

I heard UAL was going to buy FedEx & UPS too....

Man, what a PowerHouse!

I do believe they're the #1 airline in the world today, both in management & reputation...

Just as soon as they come out of bk, I'm gonna buy, buy, buy!!
dude
 
access-air
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:25 am

KJet12 says:

"Note: This post is just a RUMOR I heard from a relative of mine at United"

Okay Kjet12, if this is rumour, why even bring it up???

Access-Air
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brucek
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:39 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 19):
"Note: This post is just a RUMOR I heard from a relative of mine at United"

Maybe a rumor, maybe not. Doesn't UA have to really get to do something different or they'll be back in bankruptcy again? With the powerhouse of China still spinning up and consuming more and more of the available resources, cargo sure sounds like a good bet to me. I see in the weekend paper where the LA port has just gone to 24 hours a day and still can't handle the tonnage from China arriving by sea. I think it's got merit- especially if they can do it with stock that doesn't require cash- at least for a while. If I was a creditor, I'd be inclined to stay with a recovery plan longer if a new business plan meant that it wasn't just a return to "plain old vanilla United" (albeit re-worked).

Bruce.
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:51 am

Quoting Dc10rules (Reply 17):
I am a fan and was a frequent DC-10 flyer on UA (ORD-LAS, ORD-DTW, ORD-DEN to name a few)

I never experienced a delay except for wx.

Was I just lucky a lot or were the 10's a pain in the arse and unreliable as stated above?

Very curious.

The DC-10's used for cargo were actually DC-10-30s, to handle the longer range routes. The domestic DC-10s you would have rode on were DC-10-10's. The -30s were newer to the UA fleet than the series 10s.

Also, it all comes down (as it always does) to how well the aircraft is maintained. The -30s were getting old as well, and it didn't make sense to invest millions into them. Perhaps UA will be better using what Polar has now, but even then, they're older 747s.

We'll see.
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UALDUDE
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:26 pm

Buy it with what?! Seashells and shiny trinkets.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:36 pm

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 2):
No way. Not a snowballs chance in hell it will happen. Tell me where they will get the money for the acquisition? They are taking out all debt financing to get out of BK, which will have strong covenants on it. There is no equity in the airline, and everything that they own is already encumbered, to the point that it has no value in terms of raising cash.

Hogwash.

Ah, yes...You are the arm chair CEO that knows all. I find it amazing that you know for sure that United never will purchase Polar.

I get so sick and damn tired of people making posts like this. Here's a hint:

YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING!!!
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ordpark
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:17 pm

This rumor has been around for awhile and just won't go away...hope it has some substance to it...I think that UA will surprise a few of you naysayers when we exit BK....
 
sllevin
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting UALDUDE (Reply 22):
Buy it with what?! Seashells and shiny trinkets.

Actually, the current market cap for Atlas is 118.45 million USD. Or about what United has lost every month.  Smile

It would be unlikely to see Atlas sell for more than a 30 mil premium, so you're talking a little less than 150 million total.

In short, peanuts, even for a Chapter 11 United.

Steve
 
flanker
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:29 pm

well if true then i guess it will be nuts around swissport. haha we do their (polar/atlas) cargo flights.
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UAMAYBACH1239
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:51 am

Quoting 777D (Reply 13):
Is it possible that UAL might some how implement a cargo code share?

There is no need to implement cargo codeshare. UA's widebody fleet is more than enough space to do pretty well in cargo. With giants such as UPS really taking on a expansion in worldwide cargo, it would not benefit any airline carrier to take on an all cargo role. I would look in the future to see a Unified role in Star Alliance Cargo....
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1MillionFlyer
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 25):


In short, peanuts, even for a Chapter 11 United.

It is up to the Bankruptcy trustee and committeee to make this decision not UAL management, so it will never happen.
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incitatus
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:33 am

Here is another rumor: United is going to purchase 400 A380s. It will configure them for hi-density domestic markets in partnership with Six Flags. There will a roller coaster ride that goes around the tail.

I'm still wondering why we only get these kinds of rumors about United, never about other airlines.
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sllevin
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 28):
It is up to the Bankruptcy trustee and committeee to make this decision not UAL management, so it will never happen.

Ture, it would have to be approved, but if UAL management presented the plan, it would most likely be approved. Few things haven't been so far.

Note -- this doesn't mean I think it *will* happen, just that from a financial standpoint, it's a trivial deal.

Steve
 
Avianca
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:28 am

Quoting UAMAYBACH1239 (Reply 27):
I would look in the future to see a Unified role in Star Alliance Cargo....

well the problem is that there is no Star Alliance Cargo exesting (like SkyTeam Cargo).

All cargo devisions are more than indipendent, maybe they could join WOW but for this they should at least have some Block Space Agreements on MD-Carrier.

regards
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
UPS Pilot
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:30 am

I had heard if the labor troubles turn to a strike then Polars 744's are going to Atlas. The classics will be retired or sold and Polar Asian-Pacific rights are going to UPS.
 
Seamus
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:04 am

Quoting UPS Pilot (Reply 32):
had heard if the labor troubles turn to a strike then Polars 744's are going to Atlas. The classics will be retired or sold and Polar Asian-Pacific rights are going to UPS.

I would imagine that the long term value of the Asian-Pacific rights are worth more than letting those rights go over a strike.
 
UAcosCS
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RE: Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:03 pm

Quoting B744F (Reply 10):
The only way UAL could purchase this was with outside venture capital help. But with their bad credit rating, and chapter 11, who would want to join with them in any business venture?

You're telling me companies are willing to put up 3 Billion in exit financing, with bad credit and a chap. 11 title and you think nobody will join them in ANY business venture?

Check your current events.
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