PPVRA
Topic Author
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:52 am

Panrotas is reporting that AF-KLM will be discussing with JJ the future of their codeshare, clainimg that they need to "modernize" the agreement.

Currently, JJ an AF do not codeshare on transcontinental flights. AF management expressed their opininon that the current market demands lower fares and better connecting options, therefore they intend instead to reach an agreement with GOL and use GIG as their connecting hub (market that is served by AF's B744).

Plans for GRU were also brielfy mentioned: AF is aiming for two daily CDG-GRU flights within two years time.

Very good news for GOL and especially for GIG.

Question: Will the AF-JJ codeshare also end for flights within France?

Cheers

[Edited 2005-08-31 18:53:52]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PPSMA
Posts: 157
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:11 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:14 am

Hi VRA

I believe that AF is now seeing the real threat JJ poses as another strong competitor and maybe has decided to discontinue their agreement as JJ has built a loyal clientele in the GRU/CDG route.

Looks like feeding JJ´s flights with their own passengers might feel like feeding the enemy to make it grow, and that could be dangerous, know what I mean?

I bet on the end of the agreement in no time!

Abraços
Aviation is my thing!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:43 am

In fact good news for GIG !
I strong think that AF will decide to improve relationship with GOL as Tam is at the same time, an important partner of AA and a strong player on GRU-CDG. I dont believe AF will introduce a second daily GRU-CDG without a good partnership at GRU (they could intend to face JJ competition).
GIG has some important facts for AF: They have no competitors non-stop (RG will offer GIG-GRU-CDG product but need to offer such flight as a connecting flight for LHR, MAD, MIA and JFK flights), they have a strong brand on Rio's market, a good product with their best lounge and equipment (a 744 with NEV concept) and competitive prices. Gol providing connections from/to GIG probably takes AF to offer a new flight GIG-CDG as nowadays the 744 gets a 92% load (almost 100% on biz class).

PS: Gol operations is at least 400% larger on GIG than GRU.

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:40 pm

Would this have anything to do with JJ applying for more frequencies on the routes to CDG?

Also, this shows that JJ is having a huge bent towards OneWorld/AA (whatever you might want to put there  Silly )

Any of my brazilian friends are welcomed to enlighten me on this issue. Big grin


Cheers! wave 
Gastón - The MD-11 Junkie

P.S.: When will TAM take delivery of the remaining A330 to fly these routes?
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 2):
I strong think that AF will decide to improve relationship with GOL

Correct. And note that GOL has just made an agreement with Sky partner Copa. It shows that GOL is getting very close to Sky...

However, it is important to note that AF-JJ codeshare for domestic connections will continue in AF flights CDG-GRU. GOL agreement is specifically for AF's GIG flights.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
Would this have anything to do with JJ applying for more frequencies on the routes to CDG?

Yes. JJ wants to increase flights GRU-CDG from 14 weekly to 17-18 weekly in 2006 (3-4 additional daylight flights).

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
Also, this shows that JJ is having a huge bent towards OneWorld/AA

Yes, especially because AA is essential for JJ in the US market.

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
When will TAM take delivery of the remaining A330 to fly these routes?

In October, ready to start operations GRU-JFK.

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
Topic Author
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ G

Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:46 am

Remember that the A330 was flying with Etihad on a wet-lease agreement, so it's not a delivery from Airbus... unlike the A320 that arrived today for JJ  Wink

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:10 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 5):
Remember that the A330 was flying with Etihad on a wet-lease agreement, so it's not a delivery from Airbus... unlike the A320 that arrived today for JJ

Cheers

PPVRA, JJ will receive a brand new A332 from Airbus. They have received back one of their A332 and keep 3 on Wetlease. As per JJMNGR info, all will be received back on the next 2 years (one will be used to turn GRU-JFK a daily flight). Two will probably runs a new route on 2006 or 2007.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 4):
Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
Would this have anything to do with JJ applying for more frequencies on the routes to CDG?

Yes. JJ wants to increase flights GRU-CDG from 14 weekly to 17-18 weekly in 2006 (3-4 additional daylight flights).

Correct. Also they probably will use one of the two A332 parked during the day at CDG to run a CDG-REC-GRU flight (nowadays JJ offer a GRU-REC-GRU so they probably continue the flight to CDG while the aircraft from CDG will run the REC-GRU leg). This is a way to introduce more flights and also, to get the brazilian northeast market nowadays almost 100% on TP hands (planes!)

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPVRA
Topic Author
Posts: 7864
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:13 pm

LipeGIG,

I though JJ would get one back so that they can make JFK daily? Or is the one arriving now the new one and later the one with Etihad?

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: AF-JJ Domestic Codeshare To End, AF W/ GOL @ GIG

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:22 pm

Hi PPVRA!
The info i get is that one new A332 will be received to run the new flight and to turn the flight daily another one, back from Etihad, will be added to its fleet. The flight will become daily only on 2006 (febr/06 i think)
What do you think to prepare the brazilian meeting on september-05 ?

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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