leisurejet
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Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:53 am

It has been brewing for a while, but today Ryanair announced that they are cutting back their popular London Stansted (STN) to Newquay Cornwall (NQY) flights by 12 flights a week, because of a GBP £5 tax departure tax introduced by the airport to cover expansion and improvements.

See http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...?in_article_id=403344&in_page_id=2

Ryanair state "'Under the right conditions this market is capable of delivering huge economic benefits to the region and in excess of 200,000 passengers per annum. Cornwall County Council's ridiculous decision to introduce a GBP £5 tax per departing passenger would result in increased revenue of GBP £250,000 for the council and a reduced income for the region of GBP £10.5m, leaving Cornwall worse off to the effect of £10m per annum in terms of expenditure by visitors brought by Ryanair from London."

What is your opinion ?
 
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Richard28
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:00 am

Ryanair trying to act like a government, rather than an airline again.

If the tax was introduced and demand slacked off, then fare enough, it has cost the region lots of money.

But, FR are proactively dropping capacity assuming lack of demand - madess.

Mr O'Leary, it is up to the public to elect their officials and in turn set the tax policy - not for an airline to try and blackmail a region!!

time perhaps for easyJet to jump in and call FR's bluff?
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:17 am

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 1):
time perhaps for easyJet to jump in and call FR's bluff?

Do you want to call them or shall I ? LOL !!!

Seriously though, does anyone know (as I can't think of one right now) if there has been an occasion when easyJet have stepped into a situation like this, because Ryanair have stepped out ?
 
Runway31
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:35 am

"Mr O'Leary, it is up to the public to elect their officials and in turn set the tax policy - not for an airline to try and blackmail a region!!"

Its also up to the airline to decide if it wants to do business. If there are the passengers you or the council think there are, some other airline will step in and we will find out in due course. Airlines won't fly routes if they don't think there is money to be made.
 
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Richard28
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:59 am

Quoting Runway31 (Reply 3):

Its also up to the airline to decide if it wants to do business. If there are the passengers you or the council think there are, some other airline will step in and we will find out in due course. Airlines won't fly routes if they don't think there is money to be made.

Which was exactly my point.

FR are assuming an extra £5 per flight will equate to a drop in capacity of 12 flights weekly.

As I say, easyJet (or whoever) step in and call FR's bluff.
 
Capital146
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:05 am

The way I see it, a reduction in frequency down to just one flight each day is the worst possible outcome for the route. There will be probably insufficient demand to warrant easyJet going head-to-head on the route too, whilst a carrier operating smaller aircraft, such as Air Southwest, which has the possibility of operating more frequencies with smaller Dash 8's would no doubt see FR pricing them out of the market.

FR dropping the route altogether would possibly have been a better outcome long-term. EasyJet or Air Southwest could have looked at adding the route themselves with a decent frequency and still offered low fares. How many people are honestly going to refuse to fly the route simply because a £5 departure tax has been added at NQY? This is classic FR spin with them spitting their dummy out and then blaming someone else. A once daily frequency means they keep their foot in the door at NQY and put off other carriers from adding the route to STN. No doubt FR will be well aware of this and will use it as a means of maintaining the pressure on the council.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 5):
FR dropping the route altogether would possibly have been a better outcome long-term. EasyJet or Air Southwest could have looked at adding the route themselves with a decent frequency and still offered low fares. How many people are honestly going to refuse to fly the route simply because a £5 departure tax has been added at NQY? This is classic FR spin with them spitting their dummy out and then blaming someone else. A once daily frequency means they keep their foot in the door at NQY and put off other carriers from adding the route to STN. No doubt FR will be well aware of this and will use it as a means of maintaining the pressure on the council.

You do have a very good point there... only time will tell !!!
 
Qantasclub
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:17 am

Anyone know when these changes are due to take place? I have booked a return day trip from London on the 27th dec returning on the same day. (visiting an aunt for Christmas).

cheers,
Qantasclub
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:26 am

FlyBe are already indicating that they may add a service from NQY to London. It's no surprise that they are considering flights, they have been interested in operating from NQY for a while now, looks like they may well take the initiative.

As for Ryanair, they are once again trying to throw their weight around at a small airport, I expect they are hoping the airport will wave the £5 fee if they kick up enough fuss, it would be a shame if the reduced the service; the current flights have operated early in the morning and late in the evening, allowing passengers to connect on to and from other flights at STN without having a 6-7 hour drive to London. If they lose out on passengers it serves them right, but I have a feeling this will be resolved before flights are withdrawn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4202520.stm

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
babybus
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:44 am

No business withdraws from an area where there are good profits to be made. We can assume from this that the Newquay route was failing at present capacity.

It is much safer to blame it on a greedy council than failing demand. Shareholders prefer to hear it like that.

I'm not sure why people on here applaud such a tax. The travelling public pay far too much in taxes already.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting Qantasclub (Reply 7):
Anyone know when these changes are due to take place? I have booked a return day trip from London on the 27th dec returning on the same day. (visiting an aunt for Christmas).

There was no indication from the news article shown, nor from the News section of the Ryanair website as to when this would actually happen...

At the moment the Ryanair booking system is still showing both flights operating and available to be booked on that day, but I would suggest you keep checking over the coming days Qantasclub.
 
Evolution
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:40 am

Has anyone been to Newquay airport?

I was there in July (Air Southwest return from Bristol). The departure board is brilliant! Its a 2ft x 3ft white board with handwritten departures and arrivals for the day!!!

I think that MOL's anger over the 'taxing' of Newquay airport would be better directed to the very small snack bar that thinks it can get away with charging £1.50 for a 500ml bottle of Diet Coke?

On the other hand, FR probably charge £4 for the same bottle onboard the aircraft!!
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:39 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 9):
No business withdraws from an area where there are good profits to be made. We can assume from this that the Newquay route was failing at present capacity.

By all accounts it was a success as Ryanair added the second daily flight from/to London (STN) to cater to the demand...

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 5):
The way I see it, a reduction in frequency down to just one flight each day is the worst possible outcome for the route.



Quoting Capital146 (Reply 5):
FR dropping the route altogether would possibly have been a better outcome long-term.

If I am reading it rightly, by Ryanair reducing the frequency by 12 flights a week, only leaves 2 operating flights a week (daily double = 14 flights a week) and not down to just one flight each day, or am I missing or miscalculating something here ? If this is the case, then it might as well be dropping the route altogether !!!

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 8):
FlyBe are already indicating that they may add a service from NQY to London. It's no surprise that they are considering flights, they have been interested in operating from NQY for a while now, looks like they may well take the initiative.

Perhaps they will and let's hope their aircraft can accommodate all the extra surfboards !!!
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:20 pm

How about 30 minutes free parking, then £5 for 30 - 60 minutes parking? All NQY has to do is take 35 minutes to send the bags out.  Wink
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:38 pm

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 13):
All NQY has to do is take 35 minutes to send the bags out

Good one !!! LOL !!!
 
sulman
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:00 pm

Usual armtwisting by MOL, however, he's not alone; Easyjet are exactly the same, just not as outspoken.

When LCC's talk about high charges associated with particular airports, they're usually talking about any money the airport tries to take from them, from the standpoint that their mere presence will introduce more revenue.


James
It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
 
cornish
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:31 pm

Typical Ryanair, but what else did the expect Cornwall County Council to do.

With the likely closure of RAF St Mawgan (on whose grounds NQY sits) there is no way the councilcould afford to run the airport at a loss without doing something. Without this the airprot would most likely have closed. Remember that allthough traffic is growing - esp. with new Bmibaby and Monarch services, it is still very small.

Cornwall is one of the poorest counties in the UK, and there are many areas that council money is desperately needed. They simply don't have the money to run an airport in addition to the other services needed. And I'm not sure the traffic is there at present for a private buyer to step in.

However I will be interested to se eif FR increase their flights again for next summer. cutting flights to Cornwall in the winter may have as much to do with demand as to the stated reason of taxes.....

Remeber £5 exrtra to the flight still makes it cheaper than the train....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
greenjet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 8):
FlyBe are already indicating that they may add a service from NQY to London. It's no surprise that they are considering flights, they have been interested in operating from NQY for a while now, looks like they may well take the initiative.

Apparently FlyBe have applied for slots at LGW to operate thrice-daily NQY service.
 
A340600
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:58 am

Quoting Greenjet (Reply 17):
Apparently FlyBe have applied for slots at LGW to operate thrice-daily NQY service.

I'm sure WOW will be very happy about that one Wink! Ahh, good old competition,

Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
flycro
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:48 am

This £5 charge that FR wouldn't even have to pay gave FR a perfect opportunity to cut a route that wasn't performing and also give that annoying MOL a soapbox to get himself attention.
 
flybeq400
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:32 am

Why should the council run the airport? Couldn't they sell it off? Everyone wins.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting A340600 (Reply 18):
I'm sure WOW will be very happy about that one ! Ahh, good old competition,

If they do operate this it's going to kill the PLH-NQY-LGW route. Air Southwest can currently operate a full aircraft from NQY to LGW which makes up for the limit on the amount of pax which can be flown in or out of PLH. FlyBe could easily undercut WOW's fares for the NQY-LGW route, and I'm sure that many pax from PLH would be attracted to NQY if the fares were low enough. I'm not sure how WOW could drop their fares on the route and still be profitable, perhaps they will consider serving LHR, although pigs might fly!

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
airways45
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:30 pm

As we know, Ryanair is a business. They drop underperforming routes and open up others. It all comes down to the average fares at the end of the day and whether or not Ryanair would be better off serving another destination with its 738 rather than flying down to Cornwall. The route may make money, but could another route make more?

If the £5 added to the fare makes Ryanair less flexible in terms of what fares they can sell the route for (i.e £5 less than they would like to) then if pax are put off, or, FR believes that it just isn't worth it anymore in revenue terms, they would naturally drop the route.

This reminds me of the easyJet LPL-LTN service. As far as I am aware, the route made money. However, people who are orange will claim it never did. From what I can gather, it was more about the fact that MORE money could be made on routes with higher yields than LPL-LTN so it was dropped. If more money can be made by putting the FR aircraft on a service to another destination then FR has no loyalty to the initial destination (unless tied into an incentive package from the airport).

In this case though, it seems to me that Ryanair is voting with its feet. It warned the council that by adding the fare it would make them re-assess the viability of the route. This was supposed to make the council reconsider. The fact that they didn't has meant that FR (who let's face it doesn't need the route) is showing its displeasure.

Here's a quote from Ryanair CEO Michael Cawley:

“Ryanair has always made it very clear to Cornwall County Council that their airport and region is part of a competitive price sensitive market that must compete with 84 other low fare destinations from London Stansted.”

He says that under the right conditions this market is capable of delivering in excess of 200,000 passengers per annum.

“The benefits which incoming flights can deliver to regions such as Cornwall are incalculable and far exceed the derisory income, which will be derived by the Council as a result of this tax,”


That's always been Ryanair's position. The airport could be a loss leader (it is probably already) but by flying 200k people (who spend money in hotels etc) maybe its a way of generating revenue for the region.

However, I don't hold out much hope of uninformed council workers with limited aviation experience understanding the revenue generation potential that a LCC can bring to the region. Just look at the Coventry fiasco. Say's it all...

Airways45
 
leisurejet
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RE: Ryanair Axes Flights To Newquay Cornwall

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:13 pm

You make some excellent points there Airways45 and I tend to agree that Ryanair can most probably make more money using the aircraft on other routes and it is this, rather it being the additional £5 departure tax, that is governing them make this move...

But I also think that as the airfare initially shown by Ryanair on their website to the buying public both in the UK and to the rest of Europe is a base fare and is NOT fully inclusive of any taxes or service charges (as is the case in some countries) then can this really be a valid argument for them?

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 22):
If the £5 added to the fare makes Ryanair less flexible in terms of what fares they can sell the route for (i.e £5 less than they would like to) then if pax are put off, or, FR believes that it just isn't worth it anymore in revenue terms, they would naturally drop the route.