KarlB737
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Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:38 am

 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:42 am

The airport does not have to close if it runs out of fuel, is this a reputable publication?
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
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airzim
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 1):
The airport does not have to close if it runs out of fuel, is this a reputable publication?

Sure the planes can land but cannot refuel. Sure it's not closed but not much use to anyone.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:50 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 1):
The airport does not have to close if it runs out of fuel, is this a reputable publication?

The info you requested:

http://www.armbrustaviation.com/about_us/
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:55 am

With enough planning, you do not have to buy fuel. It could really screw up the long-haul flights, but it could be done.

there are plenty of airports already dealing with reduced Jet A levels like LAS.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
AA7573E
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:00 am

I question the validity of the posted article. There are so many grammar and diction errors in the release, it is hard to believe an organization that pays so little attention to detail and journalistic style would be reporting something that no other news outlet is.

It simply smells like a pile of bs.
See you up front!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:03 am

The problem with this article is that the author -assumes- no fuel means no flights. What he fails to realize is that airlines tanker fuel. Fuel stops are also an option...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
contrails
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shor

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:05 am

I'd like to know where the writer got that information. I think someone added 1 plus 1 and came up with 7.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
SRT75
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 5):
It simply smells like a pile of bs.

I think it's plausible.

"It's unclear how soon the pipeline outages may affect operations at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport.

"Fuel suppliers and airlines have 22 storage tanks at the airport that hold up to 27.6 million gallons of fuel. At full capacity, that's enough for about 10 days of fuel at the airlines' recent daily consumption rate of 2.8 million gallons.

"No information was immediately available on how much fuel remains in the tanks."

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/business/0805/31bizgasprices.html

2.8 million gallons a day means that a lot of jest are being filled up at ATL per day. I doubt airlines would want to have an extra 2.8 million gallons of fuel on their planes so that they can make the return trip from ATL without fueling up.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:26 am

Courtesy: The New York Times

Carriers Are Stricken by Cancellations and Lack of Fuel

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/31/bu...1922d81742fc&ei=5099&partner=TOPIX
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:32 am

From the NYT article:

The association arranged for supplies of jet fuel to be shipped by air tanker to airports in Charlotte, N.C., and Fort Myers and West Palm Beach in Florida, where supplies had dwindled, the group's chief economist, John Heimlich, said yesterday.

Still trying to figure out if they really meant "tankering", or is ATA (the organization, not the airline) hiring KC-135s and KC-10s to haul fuel for the airlines?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:36 am

I doubt highly anyone "air tankered" anything. Sounds like another idiot news person n0t checking their facts again.

OPNLGuy is very wired in he would know if this was going on for real.

[Edited 2005-08-31 23:38:06]
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hiflyer
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shor

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:39 am

MIA and FLL get their fuel from the port at FLL which is about 1/2 mile from the FLL airport. There is no problem with the colonial pipeline to the FLL or MIA airport from Port Everglades. As reported there are shipments already enroute. This pipeline fail story does not apply for these 2 airports and I strongly suspect for a few others as well. Unfortunately we will see more of these sensational style articles in the next few weeks as it serves various agendas. The result of the one today has driven gasoline up over a $1 a gallon in Atlanta...gas already produced and paid for...who is profiting?
 
deltaguy767
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:39 am

I highly doubt that the busiest airport ATL, and other top airports in the US would be shut down. I'm sure that there are contingency plans for this sort of thing and that this supposed 'fuel shortage' will be fixed.

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 1):
The airport does not have to close if it runs out of fuel, is this a reputable publication?

I agree with you that this publication isn't a good source at all for information as it seems a very sketchy article in the first place.

From BDL(Abundant in Texas Tea)  bigthumbsup 
DeltaGuy767
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OPNLguy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shor

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 11):
I doubt highly anyone "air tankered" anything. Sounds like another idiot news person n0t checking their facts again.

Here's an "air tanker" making a delivery to PBI...

http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/index.html

..and another one making a delivery at ATL...

http://www.elchineroconcepts.com/DC-10%20Fire%20Bomber.jpg



[Edited 2005-08-31 23:45:29]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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litz
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 2):
Sure the planes can land but cannot refuel. Sure it's not closed but not much use to anyone.

That's why you put enough fuel in the tanks so you can get back without refuelling - a common practice when flying to a locale that either has fuel costs that are too expensive, or can't refuel you.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 9):
2.8 million gallons a day means that a lot of jest are being filled up at ATL per day. I doubt airlines would want to have an extra 2.8 million gallons of fuel on their planes so that they can make the return trip from ATL without fueling up.

Well, if you're flying TO atlanta from elsewhere, that's an option. However, if you're FL or DL and your origin is ATL, then this is where you fuel up at.

FL and DL have a TON of daily flights that originate in ATL; I don't know how much fuel those planes consume daily, but it can't be a small amount.

And, of course, any long-haul or international flight isn't going to be able to bunker fuel either.

- litz
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 10):
From the NYT article:

The association arranged for supplies of jet fuel to be shipped by air tanker to airports in Charlotte, N.C., and Fort Myers and West Palm Beach in Florida, where supplies had dwindled, the group's chief economist, John Heimlich, said yesterday.

Still trying to figure out if they really meant "tankering", or is ATA (the organization, not the airline) hiring KC-135s and KC-10s to haul fuel for the airlines?

Tankering is the act of fueling an airplane at a station with enough fuel for both the flight to an airport and its next flight out of that airport. This has often been done when fuel prices at one airport are significantly less than those at another airport, e.g., DFW and LAX. Of course the trade-off is in the extra cost of carrying the return fuel as payload on the first flight, vs. carrying actual revenue payload. Depending on the route and the aircraft, there may not actually be a trade in revenue payload vs. fuel, but there will still be an increase in fuel burn and therefore fuel cost for the first flight. I can forsee that DL flights from outstations to ATL may tanker for the next flight from ATL to an outstation if fuel prices increase substantially in ATL. This should reduce consumption and help offset the closure of the pipelines.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 12):
the colonial pipeline to the FLL or MIA airport from Port Everglades.

It's not Colonial's, but you are correct in saying that pipeline shouldn't be damaged and whatnot as the storm wasn't nearly as strong in the FLL area as it was in the GPT/MSY area. Any possible problems would be in regards of getting the fuel to Port Everglades because of lack of refining and easily accessible oil/fuel in the general area. And even with the government releasing the SPR unfortunately nothing burns unrefined crude.
 
Aisak
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 2):
Sure the planes can land but cannot refuel. Sure it's not closed but not much use to anyone.

JK has already taken care of...



Landing at a gas station  Smile
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:54 am

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 16):
Tankering is the act of fueling an airplane at a station with enough fuel for both the flight to an airport and its next flight out of that airport.

As a dispatcher for 25 years, I'm quite familar with the concept...  Wink

My comment involved what the article described as an "air tanker" and what they meant by it...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CruzinAltitude
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:57 am

Here's an "air tanker" making a delivery to PBI...

http://www.evergreenaviation.com/supertanker/index.html

..and another one making a delivery at ATL...

http://www.elchineroconcepts.com/DC-10%20Fire%20Bomber.jpg


Good stuff! I can see the airport employee's standing below the drop with styrophoam cups ready to catch. Just hope no one is smoking!
 
KarlB737
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 15):
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 9):
2.8 million gallons a day means that a lot of jest are being filled up at ATL per day. I doubt airlines would want to have an extra 2.8 million gallons of fuel on their planes so that they can make the return trip from ATL without fueling up.

Hey Litz where do you see this statement in reply 9?

I see it in reply 8
 
1MillionFlyer
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 19):
My comment involved what the article described as an "air tanker" and what they meant by it...

I think it was just a mis-quote from a stupid reporter. He heard tankering and assumed real "tankers" perhaps.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:04 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 19):
As a dispatcher for 25 years, I'm quite familar with the concept...  

My comment involved what the article described as an "air tanker" and what they meant by it...

Sorry misunderstood what you were saying.

Quoting Litz (Reply 15):
FL and DL have a TON of daily flights that originate in ATL; I don't know how much fuel those planes consume daily, but it can't be a small amount.

While DL and FL have many flights that originate in ATL. There are not nearly as many aircraft that originate in ATL. This means that if you plan properly you can carry at least some of the fuel needed for the outbound flight into ATL from an outstation
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:08 am

Maybe they should ground all of those mega-SUV's that people are driving. That will very quickly re-stock fuel into the system where it is really needed.
 
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litz
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shor

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 21):
Quoting Litz (Reply 15):
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 9):
2.8 million gallons a day means that a lot of jest are being filled up at ATL per day. I doubt airlines would want to have an extra 2.8 million gallons of fuel on their planes so that they can make the return trip from ATL without fueling up.

Hey Litz where do you see this statement in reply 9?

I see it in reply 8

How weird ... maybe too many people were posting all at once and the quoting script messed up (I'll fix it ...) all I did was shade text and hit "QUOTE"

(shrug)

- litz
 
Tornado82
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 24):


Maybe they should ground all of those mega-SUV's that people are driving. That will very quickly re-stock fuel into the system where it is really needed.

No, it won't, stop drinking the kool-aid and move on in life. The people driving SUV's are going to feel the pain as it is, so there's nothing more to say on that effect. And for your knowledge, there are alot of areas in the Northern 1/2 of the country where you actually need that 4wd capability a few months a year... and it's alot cheaper to have one SUV than an SUV and a "summer car."
 
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litz
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:31 am

Okay, maybe I can't fix it ... the "edit" button only seems to apply to the last post made (and it seems to be broken, to boot - the username box is greyed out, making it impossible to submit changes) ... anyone know how to fix an already-posted post?

- litz
 
apodino
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:03 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 24):
Maybe they should ground all of those mega-SUV's that people are driving. That will very quickly re-stock fuel into the system where it is really needed.

Won't do a damn thing. Airliners are fueled using Jet-A kerosene, not Gasolene. The gas would help the supply problems for cars, but not jets.
 
KarlB737
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:08 am

Courtesy: MarketWatch

Audio Report On The Subject

http://www.marketwatch.com/tvradio/p...10%2D4FE6%2DBD60%2D8186E4E21D20%7D
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:37 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 12):
MIA and FLL get their fuel from the port at FLL which is about 1/2 mile from the FLL airport. There is no problem with the colonial pipeline to the FLL or MIA airport from Port Everglades. As reported there are shipments already enroute. This pipeline fail story does not apply for these 2 airports and I strongly suspect for a few others as well. Unfortunately we will see more of these sensational style articles in the next few weeks as it serves various agendas. The result of the one today has driven gasoline up over a $1 a gallon in Atlanta...gas already produced and paid for...who is profiting?

The barges enroute have been enroute since before the storm. Most all of the entire state of FL gets it's gas this way. Without refinery production there is nothing to put in the next barges. I really doubt the local gas stations will profit from this. Sure the gas in the tanks is paid for but they need to raise the price to pay for the next delivery.
 
TPAnx
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:48 pm

TPA reports a two week supply of fuel. Next shipment expected 9/11.
The airport will ask airlines to conserve..fill up at originating airport for the round trip. But there's no danger of a shutdown...
TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
HJAIA
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:53 pm

I work for HJAIA, and I can tell you that there is not a shortage of Jet A here on the airport. If the 2 pipelines that feed that airport stopped today, the airport has a 7 day supply with an additional 7 day reserve. That's 14 days of normal full operations of where we average around 2800 per day.
 
JFKviaPHX
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:29 pm

You don't need to shut down operations when you run out of fuel. As long as the airline can tanker enough to get to an airport that has enough they can fuel up there. It's done everyday. With the price of fuel so high many airlines find it cheaper to import their own fuel then fill up at certain airports. THe required fuel load to the "gas station" will be FOB (fuel on board). When it come to long haul they can usually tanker enough from their departure airport to make it to a suitable airport. If they can't they will land at the alternative first and put as much fuel as they can then finish the flight. With ah return trip to that airport or another on the way to their destination.
 
RedChili
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:15 am

I saw that several people here questioned the reliability of the source. The article was not written by airportbusiness.com, but AP (Associated Press). The article is also published by CNN on:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/09/01/airlines.katrina.ap/index.html

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
What he fails to realize is that airlines tanker fuel.

Sure, a 757 flying from MIA-ATL can tanker enough fuel to make it back to MIA, but a 737 from LAX-ATL cannot.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
Fuel stops are also an option...

Imagine if all flights out of ATL would need to make a fuel stop. It would firstly mean delays for all those flights, secondly, what airports can suddenly handle all those thousands of flights that need to land and fuel? It would be complete chaos.

It would also mean huge problems for those pilots who, due to the schedule and the regulations for work hours, have to stop working once they reach the alternative fuel airport. Adding a fuel stop between ATL-LAX could very well add two hours to the flight. And if the pilot has already worked several hours, those two hours could put the flight over the allowed limit.

And thirdly, it would mean problems with delays of two hours or more for the next flights that those planes are scheduled to make from the next airport.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
ahdharia
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting SRT75 (Reply 8):
I doubt airlines would want to have an extra 2.8 million gallons of fuel on their planes so that they can make the return trip from ATL without fueling up.

Well NWA and a few other carriers announced today that on some of their flights theyre carrying double the fuel enough to get their roundtrip without fueling at the destinated airport. For example NWA DTW-LAS flights will fly roundtrip without refueling at LAS.

My big question is that people were saying that before Katrina, jet fuel was already at a shortage. How are at a jet fuel shortage all of a sudden??
 
DouglasDC8
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:26 am

Of course if an airport runs out of diesel and gasoline, which so far doesn't seem to be a problem, ground operations will become a bit "interesting" to say the least.
 
GoogleBoy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:48 am

Katrina is the trigger point of World Oil Production Peak.

It will create the imbalance (lack of supply capacity over demand) and bring us very soon to realize that there is a permanent decline in the supply capacity in the World. The definition of peak oil.

Airlines will get the first glimpse of the oil peak impact much more strongly than any other types of transport unless government intervene to deal with air transport as if it were a utilitarian transport (like the subway) for the public good by setting policies to protect the airline industry from fuel shortages and by giving fuel access priority at a locked price to those ailing airlines.

GoogleBoy.

For those interested, please check on the Non-Aviation site, there is a blog on "Time to Acknowledge Peak Oil, and to Do Something"
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
ilikeyyc
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shor

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 27):

the change in reply numbers happens when a previous post gets deleted. The script in the post does not change, the number at the top of the post changes. The edit feature is only avialable for 30 minutes after making the post. When you edit a post, the user name will already be filled in. Just put in your password and make your changes. Then hit submit.
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
Tornado82
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting GoogleBoy (Reply 37):
Katrina is the trigger point of World Oil Production Peak.

It will create the imbalance (lack of supply capacity over demand) and bring us very soon to realize that there is a permanent decline in the supply capacity in the World. The definition of peak oil.

We have the crude... we just don't have the refining capacity to refine the crude.

If you lose 10% of slaughter houses, you'd have a shortage of beef... but yet you'd still have cows grazing in the fields that you just can't turn into beef at the present time.

We have a shortage of refining right now, the crude is still there... Saudi Arabia, Alaska, the Gulf once we make the repairs necessary, etc. Crude prices are actually lower than they were a few days ago BEFORE the hurricane... because the crude supply is NOT an issue. Maybe you should rephrase your whole issue to the "definition of peak refining capacity," and look like a more viable source of information... because EVERYBODY by now knows that the issue isn't crude, it's an ability to turn the crude into usable fuel, hence why our esteemed President's release from the SPR was just a publicity stunt. (Which, FYI, hasn't been released yet)
 
GoogleBoy
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:18 am

Tornado,
For once I agree with you. Trigger means that the shortage of refining will draw attention on the other problem not yet acknowledged, declining availability worldwide of crude.
So it's a compounding problem with possibly cascading effects in a way.
Time will tell. Let's keep an eye and acknowledge it is a likely possibility. If we do that, we can better prepare mitigations. If we took action a little sooner, we'll we bought time on our side rather than realizing we didn't do just enough in due time when it was necessary.
GoogleBoy

[Edited 2005-09-01 22:22:26]
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
tcfc424
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:29 am

Release from the SPR was a publicity stunt?!? Okay, I agreed with you all the way to that point. HOWEVER, along with the refineries that were shut down/damaged, 95% of the Gulf Coast offshore Oil Platforms are shutdown for repairs and inspection due to the storm. The US receives 25% of our OIL from those platforms.

Using your example, yes the main problem is that we have a few slaughterhouses not working. Unfortunately the hurricane that took out those slaughterhouses also spawned tornadoes that killed 25% of the cows. THAT is why the SPR is granting loans.

Now, to get away from slaughterhouses, while the immediate impact is the inability to refine the crude oil that was already stored due to the inoperable status of 8-10 large refineries (The cause of gasoline shortages) we also have the reduced production of crude oil from the oil-rich gulf coast oil platforms (evacuated and/or damaged) during the hurricane as well. (The cause of the CRUDE shortages). We do not have spare refining capacity sitting underground in salt caverns, but we do have the additional oil supplies. We will do what we can with what we have and reduce demand until such time as the refineries can be up and running again to increase the supply of gasoline. If you dont want to pay $5 a gallon, dont drive. Trade in your SUV and buy a bicycle.

Mike S in AUS
 
gipper913
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 34):
The article was not written by airportbusiness.com, but AP (Associated Press). The article is also published by CNN on

Quite true...but you seem to assume the AP and CNN are always dead-on about their "facts". History tells a very different story.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
RedChili
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting Gipper913 (Reply 42):
Quite true...but you seem to assume the AP and CNN are always dead-on about their "facts". History tells a very different story.

Yes, I very well know that journalists do not always get their facts right. In fact, I've been doing some journalistic work myself, and in one case, a newspaper edited my story so that five huge factual mistakes were included in the printed version of the article!

But my point was that the article was not written by some remote and unknown news source, but by a major wire service, and it's probably been published in many places. So we should pay more attention to the story than what some people here suggest. E.g. read reply 5: "There are so many grammar and diction errors in the release, it is hard to believe an organization that pays so little attention to detail and journalistic style would be reporting something that no other news outlet is." The fact is, though, that since AP wrote it, then it's probably published by one thousand newspapers already.

But I do know that AP makes mistakes also...
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
Tornado82
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting TCFC424 (Reply 41):
Release from the SPR was a publicity stunt?!? Okay, I agreed with you all the way to that point. HOWEVER, along with the refineries that were shut down/damaged, 95% of the Gulf Coast offshore Oil Platforms are shutdown for repairs and inspection due to the storm. The US receives 25% of our OIL from those platforms.



Quoting GoogleBoy (Reply 37):
permanent decline in the supply capacity in the World. The definition of peak oi

TCFC424: GoogleBoy now, and for some time in the past, has theorized about a WORLD oil shortage caused by a dwindling reserves and whatnot. I'm not going to acknowledge that argument pro nor con because it turns into a huge flaming war, moderators gets involved, etc. However, the reason I said "Publicity stunt" in my reply to him is because the WORLD oil picture wasn't heavily effected by our Gulf production, Saudi Arabia had enough excess capacity to pick up that slack. I hate giving them more money as much as anyone, but the fact of the matter is supply and demand... we need it, they have it. Therefore Bush letting that tiny little trickle out of the SPR, which is looking like it won't even be enough to run the refineries that are coming back online for a whole day, pretty much was a publicity stunt. It looked good on TV, but in the end it's such a small trickle into the worldwide supply chains that it doesn't accomplish much but to get all the speculative activities jacking the prices up a bit under control... and as I and numerous real experts have said... Crude is NOT the issue... it's refined products that we need. Cars, trucks, jets, and trains can't run on pure crude. Maybe this will cause a change in philosophy with the SPR in which we'll maintain a stockpile of refined products along with crude, to make up for all possible shortfalls.
 
gipper913
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:22 am

RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:53 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 43):
But my point

I concede your overall point.
The size of the federal budget is not an appropriate barometer of social conscience or charitable concern. --R. Reagan
 
GoogleBoy
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:20 am

RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 44):
Crude is NOT the issue

Well if you repeat to yourself enough to convince yourself, so be it.

I recall you also stated with adamant passion that there is no such thing as Global Warming... that it is a hoax...

Are you still 100% behind such statement?
Act now with insight, never be sorry tomorrow!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 34):
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
What he fails to realize is that airlines tanker fuel.



Quoting RedChili (Reply 34):
Sure, a 757 flying from MIA-ATL can tanker enough fuel to make it back to MIA, but a 737 from LAX-ATL cannot.



Quoting RedChili (Reply 34):
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6):
Fuel stops are also an option...



Quoting RedChili (Reply 34):
Imagine if all flights out of ATL would need to make a fuel stop. It would firstly mean delays for all those flights, secondly, what airports can suddenly handle all those thousands of flights that need to land and fuel? It would be complete chaos.

It would also mean huge problems for those pilots who, due to the schedule and the regulations for work hours, have to stop working once they reach the alternative fuel airport. Adding a fuel stop between ATL-LAX could very well add two hours to the flight. And if the pilot has already worked several hours, those two hours could put the flight over the allowed limit.

And thirdly, it would mean problems with delays of two hours or more for the next flights that those planes are scheduled to make from the next airport.

I never claimed that that tankering and fuelstopping flights would be economically efficient, or work in all operational scenarios. The point I was trying to make (which you've apparently missed) is that fuel shortages don't NECESSARILY mean an airport will have zero flights, and that whomever wrote the article made a broad, all-encompassing assumption that isn't true.

Additionally (and it might seem semantics to some) but fuel shortages don't "close" an airport. An airport might not have fuel locally, but if a flight can tanker in enough fuel to make it to the next destination or a fuelstop point, the airport is perfectly capable of handling them. Airport closures are driven by whether the entity operating the airport (city, county, airport authority, etc.) actually closes the airport by issuing a NOTAM to that effect.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
RedChili
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RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:23 pm

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 47):
The point I was trying to make (which you've apparently missed) is that fuel shortages don't NECESSARILY mean an airport will have zero flights,

I agree. To clarify myself: I did not mean to write that fuel shortages automatically mean no flights. What I meant is that if this happens on a big scale, like at some major airport like Atlanta, then tankering and fuel stops will only solve a part of the problem, but many flights will have to be cancelled.

I think that we actually agree, OPNLguy, it's just that we express ourselves in different ways and with a different emphasis.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
JAM747
Posts: 524
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Ten Airports Face Closure Due To Jet Fuel Shortage

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:38 pm

With the refineries knocked out it has had an adverse effect on the prices of gasoline. Will the problem of refineries not functioning affect the price and supply of aviation fuel drastically like it affects gasoline ? If this happens airlines will be in more trouble.