dogfighter2111
Posts: 1867
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Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:30 am

Hey,

I only heard a little bit of the news when i was in the car tonight but they said:-

Excel Shipping (the logistics company, i think) was auctioned off due to problems with oil prices etc.

Excel shipping also has a Cargo Airline arm (i can't remember what they are called) but they went down because of the fuel prices were bought by DHL.

I caouldn't understand this, but the main points i know are:

- Cargo Airline shut down due to Bankruptcy

- DHL have taken them over

Thanks
Mike
 
ACdreamliner
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:36 am

does not make sense... DHL have bought over a competitor... maybe the logistics company was stuggling, (fuel prices easy way to shift blame)...
Where are you going?
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:39 am

God, tell me about it.

I was the person listening to the news, not you and i found it hard to understand.

But, basically DHL bought the Air Cargo arm of the company and Royal Mail or somebody bought the Logistics Part of it.

Thanks
Mike
 
PanHAM
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:58 am

Deutsche Post / DHL bought Airborne Express in the USA last year. They are presently merging the CVG hub and the Wilmington OH hub of AEX, everything moves to Wilmington and flies under the DHL brand, including Transatlantic flights to CGN/EMA.

DHL/DPWN intends to buy Excel, a freight forwarder / logistics company. They are oin the early stages of negotiating that deal.
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CV580Freak
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:05 am

See BBC business news, Deutsche Post (parent company of DHL) have entered negotiations to purchase Exel.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4204668.stm
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:12 am

That's it guys. There was definetly a mention of cargo airline with Excel.

Thanks
Mike
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:19 am

I have not heard of Exel owning a cargo airline. As one of the largest freight forwarders at Heathrow they may have chartered on an ad-hoc or regular basis.

The Royal Mail charter aircraft from Titan, Channel Express and Emerald so not too sure where they will fit in.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
petertenthije
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 6):
I have not heard of Exel owning a cargo airline.

Exel does not have an airline, they buy space on other carriers and every now and then charter a plane. Having said that, they do fly a lot of freight.

I work at Exel (sea department) and must admit I did not see this one coming.
Attamottamotta!
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 7):

Hey,

Can you help me out with this then. I am more confused than ever.

On the news, it said that a Cargo Airline with Excel Logisitcs was having troubles with Fuel Prices and DHL was looking to take it over.

Please tell me what you know, because i don't know if my brain can take much more confusion  Smile

Thanks
Mike
 
petertenthije
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 8):
On the news, it said that a Cargo Airline with Excel Logisitcs was having troubles with Fuel Prices and DHL was looking to take it over.

All I know is that Exel does not have an airline or any aircraft. Feel free to browse the photo database of airliners, jetphotos, planepictures or even exel.com. You won't find them.

Perhaps the news misunderstood and just meant to say air freight company. Note my words, I do not say airline! Exel haules a lot of airfreight, it just does not do so with its own equipment.

A take-over like this takes a lot of time to prepare. DHL (or anyone else) does not just decide one day that it would be fun to take over a company the size of Exel. You must bear in mind that Exel employes roughly 111,000 people across the world and is by no means a small fish. Therefor I do not think that the recent price hikes led to Exel being sold, and that is assuming it is not just a rumour.
Attamottamotta!
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 9):

Hey, i am not judging whether or not excel has an airline etc. I am just stating that the press are saying.

The news people can misunderstand everything a lot.

I am not stupid, i do know that a company doesn't jsut go out to the Company Shop and buy another company.

Thanks
Mike
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:39 am

Deutsche Post have recently bought up :

DHL Worldwide
Danzas
AEI
Securicor Omega (UK domestic parcel operator)
Ducros (European express road operator)
and now they are after Exel

That's the 3 largest freight forwarders and the largest International Express company.

Total staff now must be approaching 500,000 but one hell of a job to integrate all these companies under the DHL banner.

Saying that, DHL's airline will have a superb base load carrying all that airfreight.........
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
B744F
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:46 am

Every package we have that went DHL was "missing" in their system for days.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:51 am

So in essence then this is a misleading topic because the fuel prices did not cause an "airline" to "collapse." Buyouts like this are planned out long in advance... and this wouldn't be a "collapse" then.
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:01 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 13):

That's the way it is turning out but on the news it did say "due to rising fuel costs". That is why i did mention it in the topic.

Thanks
Mike
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:36 am

Rising fuel costs won't bother DHL too much as they immediately slap a 11% fuel surcharge on every invoice worldwide. 11% on a 500 gram envelope (multiply that by the 100,000's a day) and they are well covered.

Exel would only suffer the rising fuel costs for their vehicles and I am sure that they would levy a fuel surcharge as well.

Dogfighter, where abouts in God's Own are you or what radio station were you listening to ?.

[Edited 2005-09-02 00:40:18]

[Edited 2005-09-02 00:46:10]
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
Deutsche Post / DHL bought Airborne Express in the USA last year.

Well, yes and no... DHL did purchase the GROUND operations of Airborne, but the cargo airline was spun off as ABX Air due to U.S laws prohibiting foreign ownership of U.S airlines. I believe their planes even have the DHL c/s, with an American flag, but if someone knows different, please correct me.

Regards,
Sal
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:23 am

That's correct, DWPN (Deutsche Post) purchased the ground operations of Airborne Express. Due to the US laws governing foreign ownership of US airlines the Airborne airline was spun off and now operates as ABX air. DHL Airlines was also spun off and now operates as Astar.

Both airlines are contracted to move DHL freight within the USA and Canada plus Astar operates the transatlantic flights to Europe and onward to the Middle East.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
adriaticus
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 17):
DHL Airlines was also spun off and now operates as Astar

A cover-up of a violation of US airline ownership laws. It is being fought in courts after a conjoint (!) lawsuit filed by FedEx and UPS.

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HAWK21M
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:59 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 11):
Deutsche Post have recently bought up :

DHL Worldwide
Danzas
AEI
Securicor Omega (UK domestic parcel operator)
Ducros (European express road operator)
and now they are after Exel

Add Blue Dart [INDIA] to the List.
regds
MEL
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PanHAM
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:29 pm

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 16):

Well, yes and no... DHL did purchase the GROUND operations of Airborne, but the cargo airline was spun off as ABX Air due to U.S laws prohibiting foreign ownership of U.S airlines. I believe their planes even have the DHL c/s, with an American flag, but if someone knows different, please correct me.

Regards,
Sal

well yes, but in fact Airborne is flying for DHL now. Whatever technical arrangements have been made to adjust this to the legal reality in the US, fact is that all the DC8s and 767s of Airborne will gradually be repainted in DHL yellow and red. It says in small letters then "operated by"..

That is basically the same set-up FX and UPS have in Euriope where they run a domestic service as well with the help of a number of smaller operators.

DHL is controlling the operations and they move the hub to the airpark in Wilmingtron which will then receive (or has already) MD11 service to Europe.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 18):

A cover-up of a violation of US airline ownership laws. It is being fought in courts after a conjoint (!) lawsuit filed by FedEx and UPS.

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Kindly explain to me why DHL should not be allowed to do in the US what FX and UPS are doing in Europe? I always thought that in our western societies laws apply to everyone alike.
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Doona
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:31 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 20):
Kindly explain to me why DHL should not be allowed to do in the US what FX and UPS are doing in Europe? I always thought that in our western societies laws apply to everyone alike.

It's not an issue of what should and should not be allowed, it's just against the law.

But you're totally right, of course it's unfair. US laws are letting US companies get advantages SOMEWHERE ELSE, whilst not permitting foreign companies to do the same in the US. Sort of odd, when you consider that a couple of years ago I heard a US congressman on TV, claiming the the US 'is the free-est nation on the face of the Earth'.

Cheers
Mats
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PanHAM
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:54 pm

Quoting Doona (Reply 21):

It's not an issue of what should and should not be allowed, it's just against the law.

But you're totally right, of course it's unfair. US laws are letting US companies get advantages SOMEWHERE ELSE, whilst not permitting foreign companies to do the same in the US. Sort of odd, when you consider that a couple of years ago I heard a US congressman on TV, claiming the the US 'is the free-est nation on the face of the Earth'.

Cheers
Mats

I am in the transport business and I can tell you that the Us of A are probably more regulated than India. They are light years away from beeing a Nation where free enterprise can really flourish.

The law says that foreign owners can own only a certain percentage of an airline. OK, that is the case, the former AEX, now Astar owns and operates the planes and charters them for daily flights to DHL. Where is the problem?

Same goes form the MD11 flights operated oin behalf of DHL by Lufthansa. They operate underr lH flight number but on certain routes like EMA/CVG they use Gemini MD11s because LH does not have traffic rights between the UK and the USA. Greetings from Bermuda II. Whoi is going to tell me which carrier to use between point A and B? I have used AC for freight from Germany to the USA over 30 years ago, hence recently I was reading here that AC is not allowed to transport passengers from BOS to SEA via YYZ.

Image there is a law that you cannot change planes on FRA on the way from STO to ROM, Or I could not use SK from FRA via STO to LED, be it for freight or passengers, nobody needs this kind of regulation.

DHL acts as a freight forwarder chartering planes, nothing more and nothing less. Same does FX and UPS over here on Europe and elsewhere in the World. I don't have shares in DHL and they are rather competition, but if FX and UPS succeed with their lobbying, I favor to cancel their rights in Europe reciprocally.

I am still optimistic that common sense will succeed. UPS and FX have such a strong market position in the USA that I really do not understand why they don't fight this out commercially. The US public should have a third choice when it comes to integrators and they should have still more choices when they need transport services an integrator cannot provide but a classic freight forwarder can.
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captainstorck
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
Same goes form the MD11 flights operated oin behalf of DHL by Lufthansa. They operate underr lH flight number but on certain routes like EMA/CVG they use Gemini MD11s because LH does not have traffic rights between the UK and the USA

The Lufthansa MD11 flights are now going to ILN (Wilmington) 6x/week from EMA as DLH8280 and they are not Gemini aircraft; I have personally seen D-ALCH, D-ALCF, and D-ALCA (it is almost humorous to see these beautiful birds landing on a runway literally in the middle of a corn field)
 
Tornado82
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting CaptainStorck (Reply 23):
(it is almost humorous to see these beautiful birds landing on a runway literally in the middle of a corn field)

Haha... it's not just a cornfield, the local NWS office and the Ohio Headwaters branch of the River Forecasting Center is there.  Smile

PS: Looked at your profile upon seeing you're a new user... I love Nashua! and let me be the first to say welcome to Airliners.net!
 
PanHAM
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting CaptainStorck (Reply 23):

The Lufthansa MD11 flights are now going to ILN (Wilmington) 6x/week from EMA as DLH8280 and they are not Gemini aircraft; I have personally seen D-ALCH, D-ALCF, and D-ALCA (it is almost humorous to see these beautiful birds landing on a runway literally in the middle of a corn field)

OK, the EMA flight is a continuation from CGN, I believe. They do have Gemini a/c on the job but they might be doing the runs from BRU. So ops have moved to ILN already. At least that will bring some more money into the region. Hope that DHL establishes itself as a third playwer in the field. Good for competition.
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captainstorck
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:32 am

I agree, I think FedEx and UPS have become much too comfortable at the top. (Nothing personal against either one of those carriers)
 
pilotpip
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:14 am

ABX is not repainting all of their aircraft in the DHL scheme. Some will go to a house paint as they are looking to expand their business through contracts with other companies, like the USPS. Many of their aircraft are also undergoing cargo door mods.
DMI
 
UAcosCS
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RE: Fuel Prices Cause First Airline To Collapse

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:17 am

Maybe some commercial airlines will falter and fall.
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