keesje
Posts: 8590
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Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:12 pm

Boeing's plans to outsource parts for its new 787 jet to China have hit political turbulence as the Bush administration scrutinizes the deal.

Though Boeing already has approval to use airframe suppliers in Japan, Korea, France and Italy, it still needs a federal OK to share technology with a Chinese company tagged to build the 787 tail rudder. Boeing wants to use the supplier, based in Chengdu, to encourage airplane sales in China.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...logy/2002465971_boeingchina02.html



William Clements : "There are those who see China as a threat and that taints their entire attitude toward normalized commerce with China. Others see China as a significant commercial opportunity."

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
FriendlySkies
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Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:21 pm

This is getting ridiculous...could someone please explain to me what the hell China could do to us if we share technology to build a RUDDER with them?
 
flyinghippo
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:26 pm

It's the Bush administration looking for a new enemy to fight. They don't realize that China represents the only catalyst to keep the inflation in the US (And around the world) down to a minimum.

China represents a threat to the US influence in Asia, both militarily and economically. I remember US Congress raised hell when they found out that part of the flight control system (A computer chip) was built in Japan in the 80s.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:56 pm

The link provides credible information that the objections are probably not based on undesirable technology transfer.

Economical the outsourcing seems to make sense for Boeing. Are there known lobby groups that play the "American jobs" card?

Politically much is going on in Asia and its relations with the rest of the world, however I have no clear view how this Whitehouse action could be related to that..

[Edited 2005-09-02 15:58:27]
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Dougloid
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:32 pm

Hooray...I'm out of the doghouse...


I don't see this as a big issue. SAIC license built a bunch of MD80s and Douglas bought the MLG doors from SAIC. That was in the early eighties I believe.
The only question here is the level of composite technology that would be transferred...and there are no big secrets there either, just the size of the autoclave and the control of the production process-both of which are pretty intense.

Another reason I'd pass on an opportunity to work on composite parts is that the dust from fabrication is vicious stuff. We had a DPS that required respirators if even one hole was drilled in a composite panel. The people breathing the dust from composites are in for a new type of black lung.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:55 pm

Keesje,

Why did you insert a picture of the financial district of Shanghai into your post? Doesn't seem to have much of anything to do with Chengdu or the subject matter.
 
trex8
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:23 am

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 1):
This is getting ridiculous...could someone please explain to me what the hell China could do to us if we share technology to build a RUDDER with them?

probably not much in and of itself but given the problems MDC had with selling the PRC machine tools which could be used for making military equipment including I believe it was missiles, that is a potential problem!
Don't forget, you can't even export the latest Mac computers to China as the processor is too quick and on some US government list of banned exports! Some people in Washington are afraid that if all the Chinese scientists had high end personal computers than the abacus they think they have now, the US will end up a Chinese province I guess!!
This all coming from a government which till the early 90s didn't even know where the main Chinese nuclear weapons labs were despite all those spy satellites they had till the Chinese invited them to visit the labs as reciprocity for the US letting Chinese scientists go to Los alamos etc!
 
keesje
Posts: 8590
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 5):
Why did you insert a picture of the financial district of Shanghai into your post?

Illustrates what Clements says.

I think the chinese can build a composite rudder anyhow, if they can put a man in space.

So there is probably more on the agenda.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Dougloid
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 6):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 1):
This is getting ridiculous...could someone please explain to me what the hell China could do to us if we share technology to build a RUDDER with them?

probably not much in and of itself but given the problems MDC had with selling the PRC machine tools which could be used for making military equipment including I believe it was missiles, that is a potential problem!

Good point....all that stuff was excess when MDC bought plant from one of the other contractors....Rockwell, maybe....not sure about that....they got their weenies spanked that's for sure.

Anyway, the technology to manufacture parts out of prepreg is pretty straightforward...the making of aircraft grade parts is another story....and putting in place the quality assurance and inspection necessary to demonstrate conformity to the FARS and the TC is probably different from that which might be used by, say, a maker of auto parts.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Halibut
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RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
It's the Bush administration looking for a new enemy to fight.

I have to disagree with you on that point . I think they're just covering there butts , making sure there's no funny business going betweet the chinese government and Boeing .

The US is not against a proporous China , just a Red China which is repressing there people . I go to China practically once every quarter . China is still a 3rd world nation . China is a poor nation - people living on the rivers banks poor !

China's worst enemy is too much government meddling and lack of a free matket/business sector . The Chinese communist gov. is holding down the people's standard of living , keeping them poor for cheap labor . Which in turn hurts manufacturers from other countries because it's almost impossible to compete with Chinese manufacturers since the average salary in China is only $1000 a year .

The Chinese government is cheating in manufacturing as well as cheating there own people in the process !

Halibut

[Edited 2005-09-03 00:14:09]
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Boeing 787 China Outsourcing Under US Gov't Scrutiny

Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:25 am

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
William Clements : "There are those who see China as a threat and that taints their entire attitude toward normalized commerce with China. Others see China as a significant commercial opportunity."



Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
It's the Bush administration looking for a new enemy to fight. They don't realize that China represents the only catalyst to keep the inflation in the US (And around the world) down to a minimum.

They understand perfectly well that imports from China keep consumer goods prices down. (At least for now that is, until China develops. Unfortunately I think we are getting addicted to cheap imports and not investing enough in automation that would have produced those goods at home with less labor input.). But China is still a difficult to read, authoritarian country with which we have a history of conflict with, and we have defence obligations that could potentially bring us into conflict with them in the future. A lot of questions will be asked about why we traded with them if the latter comes to pass. Anyway the biggest commercial opportunity was never in China itself in the short term. It was using Chinese labor to sell cheap goods to developed countries.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 1):
This is getting ridiculous...could someone please explain to me what the hell China could do to us if we share technology to build a RUDDER with them?

Presumably the ability to make composite rudders. Of course we know that Boeing gained significant experience with composites for aerospace applications when making military aircraft which they are applying to commercial jets. Presumably they are transfering that knowledge. Certainly the US government should look into the transfer of knowledge that it partly paid for.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 7):
I think the chinese can build a composite rudder anyhow, if they can put a man in space.

The US and Russia put people into space before either could produce quality composite rudders. I don't see what one has to do with the other.
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