stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:47 am

Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta. In the same token, the airline has also initiated service from Bloomington - Normal to Atlanta.

Both of these routes are flown by Air Tran. Airport officials at each city are worried that the appearance of Delta will mean the end of Air Tran service.
Air Tran is credited with revitalizing the Bloomington - Normal (Central Illinois Regional Airport) Airport.

Delta flies the routes with its regional jets while Air Tran serves both airports with its 717 service.

The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.


http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/sky.htm


I believe a few years ago Delta served Springfield, Illinois, but later pulled out after the route did not find much success.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:50 am

There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts.
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 1):
There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts.

tried, found nothing. oh well.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:32 am

Yeah there was a thread about this about a month ago i'd say, but i don't think it was really discussed to death or anything like that.

i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3):
AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.

What was Airtran in the later part of '96 after the shutdown? Was it not some near chapter 11 southern carrier coming in and screwing up shit for other Atlanta airlines? I know for a fact it was, why do you think they purchased Airtran and changed the name?  Yeah sure


OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11421
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.

Only because it's subsidized

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3):
i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports

To make these flights work IMHO, DL needs to provide an incentive to people to connect to international flights at ATL instead of ORD (the "logical" choice presently). If they can do that, they can dump some low fare capacity into the market and pick up the ATL and Florida-bound bottom-feeders. Can they do it? I don't know.

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta.

This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:18 pm

I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business. AirTran has been the only game in town BMI-ATL for years and the flights are very full. These people have been flying this route for years, have earned status with AirTrans frequent flyer program. It's going to be tough for Delta got get those people back.

AirTran fills a lot of seats between BMI and ATL. Delta service will rely more on connecting service for it's loads.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
IADLHR
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 2:18 pm

Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD. As a result of this strategy, it is AA and UA passengers they are trying to get.

As they are starting this service in the winter, it really makes me wonder.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:10 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 7):
Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD

that could be a very definite possibilty, DL does serves many Caribbean and Mexican markets, ATL would definitely be a better connection point in winter versus a possible snowy delay prone ORD.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:39 am

I personally see that the only way Delta will be able to make it in these two markets is if the abandon their plans of using "BarbieJets" and use soemthing the size of a 737-200....
If their plane is to do nothing but come in drive Air Tran out then raise the fares then Delta deserves to lose money on the planned service. Sure airlines have the right to serve wherever they want, Deregulation gurantees that. However, it might not be in the best interest of the communites involved..
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD. Why would passengers even think of flying all the way down to ATL to fly from Moline or Bloomington to, for example, London or Frankfurt. Seems sort of silly. I really dont belive that there are many loyal Skyteam/Delta FF in this area, like I said, ist mostly UA and AA.
Secondly I do not believe that Delta Connection ever set foot into Springfield, Illinois. They have had the likes of Ozark, Air Illinois, Britt, MVA, Air Wisconsin, Midway Commuter, Midway Connection, Great Lakes, ACA/United Express, Mid Continent as Braniff Express, Midstate Airlines and they might have also had service provided by Air Kentucky dba Allegheny Commuter. They also might have even been served by a small company called Green Hills Aviaiton and Brower Airways, but Never a Delta Connection....I'm 99.9999999999% percent sure of the DL thing.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:33 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 9):
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD.

First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.
Second, there's not only Europe, but primarily also the Caribben, Latin and South America, with most of the cities available through ATL not being available through ORD.
 
lastordu
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:14 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Air Tran serves both airports with its 717

I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic.
"Remember, Remember the 5th of November" from V for Vendetta
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Lastordu (Reply 11):
I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic.

No, the agreement with Air Wisky has been dropped many months ago, because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with. And yet FlyI didn't listen  Wink .
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18185
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with.

While that may be true in the case of the 50 seat RJ's, that isn't why Frontier dropped Mesa.

Mesa broke the contract with Frontier by going to United (more flying, more money). But they would have been flying duplicate routes for both United and Frontier.

So Frontier dropped Mesa.

And went to Horizon and the 70 seat RJ's, which are, for some months of the year, stand alone profitable.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
IflyI
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:43 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:21 am

Having worked at CIRA (BMI) for a while, I know that AirTran does well there. There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL. The market may not be 100% loyal to FL (AA and UA rule there) but there is more loyalty to FL than DL. Add to that the buisness travelers who would rather fly a 717 than a CRJ and you get more people choosing FL over DL.......Just my  twocents .

Jason in SAV
Independence Air - Go your own way!
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:05 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.

Only because it's subsidized



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta.

This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL.

Interesting stats, I didn't know. Thanks.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6):
I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business.

What about Country Companies or Mitsubishi? Or does Mit. tend to take American on up to O'Hare and connect to Asia?

Quoting IflyI (Reply 14):
Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA

I forgot about that. Thanks.


I'm surprised that AA Eagle hasn't started Bloomington to Dallas/Ft. Worth service.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 15):
I'm surprised that AA Eagle hasn't started Bloomington to Dallas/Ft. Worth service.

It's coming.
a.
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
It's coming.

And I'm not a bit surprised. But it seems overdue since Air Tran has been advertising for a while now the first flight out of the day from Bloomington to Atlanta continues right on to Dallas Ft. Worth. I would have thought Eagle would have responded by now.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
planespotting
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:54 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):
First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.

yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc...

i doubt there are that many that really need to do so, and the ones that do are already frequent fliers with miles in UA and AA and can do so with a two stop connection (ORD and somewhere in Europe...LHR, FRA, MUC, etc..).
Do you like movies about gladiators?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10):

First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.

The only significant one is Milan.

None the less, I do agree with DAL767400ER. Delta can offer a plethora of connections to Florida, Latin America/Caribbean, and Europe via Atlanta that Cincinnati does not offer. And, unless one is a business traveler, most people don't care that Atlanta adds an hour to their travel time to Europe, especially if the price is right.
a.
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:14 am

There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL.

It works the same way with PIA, sir. Everyday we see passengers fly in from ATL, rent cars in PIA, and DRIVE to BMI. Most of these frequent flyers fly in on Sundays or Mondays from ATL, and then return from BMI on Thursdays or Fridays. These are predominately contractors for State Farm.

They're may be loyalty with Airtran now, but many people might see beyond the usual RDU, MCO, or CLT markets. You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc.....

Again, many of these passengers come from all over Central, IL to fly these routes on a regular basis, including folks going and coming from Bloomington/Normal.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6650
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:46 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 4):
What was Airtran in the later part of '96 after the shutdown? Was it not some near chapter 11 southern carrier coming in and screwing up shit for other Atlanta airlines?

I'm sorry, but I don't believe Valujet was ANYWHERE NEAR Ch 11.
Love Trumps Hate
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:29 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21):
I'm sorry, but I don't believe Valujet was ANYWHERE NEAR Ch 11.

Then you better read some more info about it. After their crash in the Everglades, Valujet was in a very bad situation, as passengers lost their faith in the safety of the airline and avoided it. Not to mention that the temporary shutdown by the FAA wasn't helpful either.

Quoting Planespotting (Reply 18):
yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc...

The same odds that a lot of people want to make those connections from cities like PIA or FNT  Wink .
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:04 pm

I stand by my earlier cooments..I think Delta if they intend on invading this territory need to use something larger than a BarbieJet to make it work.
I might add that just because Delta goes to the Caribbean and South and Central America thru ATL, So does American which now has in place 2 Round trip flights per day from Moline to DFW.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA coustomer loyalty and the competition in That market.
I think CVG would have worked fine for a connecting city had Delta not scaled back their mainline service so much to have Comair with BarbieJets take almost 98% of the market.
Just because these CRJS ( ERJs and FRJs) are not quite as bad....have the range to do long hauls doesnt mean they should...and by no means are these planes to even be thought of as replacements for DC9-10s or BAC 111s or 737-200s or BAe146s....The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190 stuff...
Anyway, back to my comments....I think that Delta is doing this as a move to stifle competitionor run Air Tran out of thses markets only to rutn around and raise fares to make flying out of our area akin to the outrageous prices they charge to fly thru SLC to Wyo, Montana, Idaho or any other northern US city they serve in the Pac NW. Somehow Delta has to make up for all the $79.00 one way fares to FLL from ORD.....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:11 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 23):
.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA customer loyalty and the competition in That market

Yes like American worries about Delta customer loyalty in SAV, or NW worries about United customer loyalty in SAN, or Continental worries about NW loyalty in Winnipeg.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:40 pm

Well if Delta sees that AA started flying from MLI to DFW nonstop to connect to their Latin America and Caribbean Destinations, I can see the reasoning for them trying to capture that same would be traffic....
THATS what I'm talking about, Padcrasher!!

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
lastordu
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:14 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:37 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 23):
The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190

Agreed

Although I think the E-170/190 cool to watch.
"Remember, Remember the 5th of November" from V for Vendetta
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6650
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:58 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22):
Then you better read some more info about it. After their crash in the Everglades, Valujet was in a very bad situation, as passengers lost their faith in the safety of the airline and avoided it. Not to mention that the temporary shutdown by the FAA wasn't helpful either.

While those conditions you describe DID exist, absolutely they did, the company had a stockpile of cash and was not near a ch. 11. Feel free to enlighten me.
Love Trumps Hate
 
Lando
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:29 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:04 am

Well, having Airtran at BMI is nice, but I live in Peoria, I havent flown on AirTran in awhile, since flying Delta out of PIA is alot more convenient... Either way AirTran does very well in BMI, and I dont think Delta will force them to move out. I know more people will prefer the 717 over the CRJs.
 
travatl
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:57 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:12 am

Actually, the closest we ever came to bankruptcy was after the AirTran purchase. We burned through a TON of cash merging the two carriers and completely rebranding/rethinking the new product. Things didn't really start to turn around until '99.

Travis
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:33 am

I'd say Airtran is marginal in BMI seeing that their load factor was 67.6% for the first 5 Months of 05 having the Southeast almost to themselves.

Don't blame Delta for putting RJ's in a market just about the right size for RJ's.

And not every BMI customer is crazy about going to see their toothless Uncle in some trailer park next to everglades.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting STLGph (Thread starter):
Airport officials at each city are worried that the appearance of Delta will mean the end of Air Tran service.

Since they (BMI & MLI) seem to not want DL to serve them to ATL, we'll take it here in CID!  

[Edited 2005-09-05 04:43:56]
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 20):
You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc.....

Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern city.
a.
 
docchaos
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:35 pm

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:27 pm

And for the good of the cause...
MLI on Dec. 1, DL will have 4 Daily to ATL.
Delta 4535 * 6:15am (MLI) 9:17am (ATL)
Delta 4545 * 10:50am (MLI) 1:53pm (ATL)
Delta 4660 * 2:22pm (MLI) 5:28pm (ATL)
Delta 4556 * 4:58pm (MLI) 8:04pm (ATL)

ATL to MLI
Delta 4545 * 9:30am (ATL) 10:20am(MLI)
Delta 4660 * 1:00pm (ATL) 1:52pm (MLI)
Delta 4556 * 3:38pm (ATL) 4:28pm (MLI)
Delta 4579 * 7:00pm (ATL) 7:52pm (MLI)

Delta Flight Schedules
 
afrikaskyes
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:07 pm

Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern city.

I could have been more specific. What I'm trying to say is that ASA in PIA see many passengers traveling to other markets than the usual Airtran markets that DL shares out of ATL. Of course most of the PAX aren't going to "small southern cities" on these flights. We do see many ASA to ASA connections, on a regular basis, though. These include many places LIKE...AGS, CAE, AVL, etc....

ASA and DL give way more options out of ATL than Airtran does. Again, you would be surprised to see the obscure places people will travel to out of PIA using ASA. I am confident that BMI will benefit with ASA service. Who cares what the DL strategy is in BMI. People in BMI will have a greater selection out of ATL.

Anyway, I've heard horror stories about Airtran from the BMI people that pay the occasional slightly higher fares to fly into PIA. These are the same people who rent cars from PIA and drive into BMI. There is in my opinion, a rather large population in Central, IL that choose to avoid Airtran like it's the black plague. To be fair, I'm sure it goes the other way. I just haven't met any.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting DocChaos (Reply 33):
And for the good of the cause...
MLI on Dec. 1, DL will have 4 Daily to ATL

have the advance bookings been good for this route? They were to start with only 3 dailies....
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:47 pm

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 35):
have the advance bookings been good for this route? They were to start with only 3 dailies....

Well, if you deem Ben Edelman's site as accurate, loads are rather bad so far, but then again, December 1st is still almost 3 months away, so loads can definitely improve.