Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta. In the same token, the airline has also initiated service from Bloomington - Normal to Atlanta.
Both of these routes are flown by Air Tran. Airport officials at each city are worried that the appearance of Delta will mean the end of Air Tran service.
Air Tran is credited with revitalizing the Bloomington - Normal (Central Illinois Regional Airport) Airport.
Delta flies the routes with its regional jets while Air Tran serves both airports with its 717 service.
The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati.
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/sky.htm
I believe a few years ago Delta served Springfield, Illinois, but later pulled out after the route did not find much success.
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- positiverate
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Positiverate (Reply 1): There's already a thread on this; do a search and you can find the posts. |
tried, found nothing. oh well.
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- planespotting
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Yeah there was a thread about this about a month ago i'd say, but i don't think it was really discussed to death or anything like that.
i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.
i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3): AirTran has done a lot for both airports and doesn't need some near-chapter 11 southern carrier to come in and start screwing shit up for them. |
What was Airtran in the later part of '96 after the shutdown? Was it not some near chapter 11 southern carrier coming in and screwing up shit for other Atlanta airlines? I know for a fact it was, why do you think they purchased Airtran and changed the name?
OttoPylit
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati. |
Only because it's subsidized
| Quoting Planespotting (Reply 3): i really hope AirTran can up against the DL CRJ's out of MLI and BMI. AirTran has done a lot for both airports |
To make these flights work IMHO, DL needs to provide an incentive to people to connect to international flights at ATL instead of ORD (the "logical" choice presently). If they can do that, they can dump some low fare capacity into the market and pick up the ATL and Florida-bound bottom-feeders. Can they do it? I don't know.
| Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta. |
This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL.
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- jetdeltamsy
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business. AirTran has been the only game in town BMI-ATL for years and the flights are very full. These people have been flying this route for years, have earned status with AirTrans frequent flyer program. It's going to be tough for Delta got get those people back.
AirTran fills a lot of seats between BMI and ATL. Delta service will rely more on connecting service for it's loads.
AirTran fills a lot of seats between BMI and ATL. Delta service will rely more on connecting service for it's loads.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD. As a result of this strategy, it is AA and UA passengers they are trying to get.
As they are starting this service in the winter, it really makes me wonder.
As they are starting this service in the winter, it really makes me wonder.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting IADLHR (Reply 7): Is it possible that DL really would like to get some connecting passengers to ATL who are going to the warmer climate during the winter from the midwest. The people would otherwise connect at ORD |
that could be a very definite possibilty, DL does serves many Caribbean and Mexican markets, ATL would definitely be a better connection point in winter versus a possible snowy delay prone ORD.
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- access-air
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
I personally see that the only way Delta will be able to make it in these two markets is if the abandon their plans of using "BarbieJets" and use soemthing the size of a 737-200....
If their plane is to do nothing but come in drive Air Tran out then raise the fares then Delta deserves to lose money on the planned service. Sure airlines have the right to serve wherever they want, Deregulation gurantees that. However, it might not be in the best interest of the communites involved..
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD. Why would passengers even think of flying all the way down to ATL to fly from Moline or Bloomington to, for example, London or Frankfurt. Seems sort of silly. I really dont belive that there are many loyal Skyteam/Delta FF in this area, like I said, ist mostly UA and AA.
Secondly I do not believe that Delta Connection ever set foot into Springfield, Illinois. They have had the likes of Ozark, Air Illinois, Britt, MVA, Air Wisconsin, Midway Commuter, Midway Connection, Great Lakes, ACA/United Express, Mid Continent as Braniff Express, Midstate Airlines and they might have also had service provided by Air Kentucky dba Allegheny Commuter. They also might have even been served by a small company called Green Hills Aviaiton and Brower Airways, but Never a Delta Connection....I'm 99.9999999999% percent sure of the DL thing.
Access-Air
If their plane is to do nothing but come in drive Air Tran out then raise the fares then Delta deserves to lose money on the planned service. Sure airlines have the right to serve wherever they want, Deregulation gurantees that. However, it might not be in the best interest of the communites involved..
As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD. Why would passengers even think of flying all the way down to ATL to fly from Moline or Bloomington to, for example, London or Frankfurt. Seems sort of silly. I really dont belive that there are many loyal Skyteam/Delta FF in this area, like I said, ist mostly UA and AA.
Secondly I do not believe that Delta Connection ever set foot into Springfield, Illinois. They have had the likes of Ozark, Air Illinois, Britt, MVA, Air Wisconsin, Midway Commuter, Midway Connection, Great Lakes, ACA/United Express, Mid Continent as Braniff Express, Midstate Airlines and they might have also had service provided by Air Kentucky dba Allegheny Commuter. They also might have even been served by a small company called Green Hills Aviaiton and Brower Airways, but Never a Delta Connection....I'm 99.9999999999% percent sure of the DL thing.
Access-Air
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- DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Access-Air (Reply 9): As for Delta snagging International traffic to/from Europe thru Atlanta connections, I really dont see it happening too much as This area is UA AA country and both airline adequately serve most of Europe thru ORD. |
First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD.
Second, there's not only Europe, but primarily also the Caribben, Latin and South America, with most of the cities available through ATL not being available through ORD.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): Air Tran serves both airports with its 717 |
I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic.
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- DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Lastordu (Reply 11): I know off topic but dose Air Tran have any RJ anymore? Thanks and sorry about being off topic. |
No, the agreement with Air Wisky has been dropped many months ago, because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with. And yet FlyI didn't listen
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12): because FL (and Frontier as well) deemed CRJs to be the absolute worst aircraft to operate LCC operations with. |
While that may be true in the case of the 50 seat RJ's, that isn't why Frontier dropped Mesa.
Mesa broke the contract with Frontier by going to United (more flying, more money). But they would have been flying duplicate routes for both United and Frontier.
So Frontier dropped Mesa.
And went to Horizon and the 70 seat RJ's, which are, for some months of the year, stand alone profitable.
cheers
mariner
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Having worked at CIRA (BMI) for a while, I know that AirTran does well there. There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL. The market may not be 100% loyal to FL (AA and UA rule there) but there is more loyalty to FL than DL. Add to that the buisness travelers who would rather fly a 717 than a CRJ and you get more people choosing FL over DL.......Just my 
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Jason in SAV
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Jason in SAV
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5): Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): The Delta flood into Illinois also serves Champaign to Cincinnati. Only because it's subsidized |
| Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5): Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): Delta Air Lines has discontinued service from Moline to Cincinnati and replaced service from Moline to Atlanta. This one's totally logical. Some 50% of people connecting at CVG was connecting on to ATL. |
Interesting stats, I didn't know. Thanks.
| Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6): I think AirTran has developed a lot of loyal State Farm Insurance business. |
What about Country Companies or Mitsubishi? Or does Mit. tend to take American on up to O'Hare and connect to Asia?
| Quoting IflyI (Reply 14): Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA |
I forgot about that. Thanks.
I'm surprised that AA Eagle hasn't started Bloomington to Dallas/Ft. Worth service.
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- planespotting
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10): First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD. |
yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc...
i doubt there are that many that really need to do so, and the ones that do are already frequent fliers with miles in UA and AA and can do so with a two stop connection (ORD and somewhere in Europe...LHR, FRA, MUC, etc..).
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 10): First, there are several destinations in Europe that neither UA nor AA serves from ORD. |
The only significant one is Milan.
None the less, I do agree with DAL767400ER. Delta can offer a plethora of connections to Florida, Latin America/Caribbean, and Europe via Atlanta that Cincinnati does not offer. And, unless one is a business traveler, most people don't care that Atlanta adds an hour to their travel time to Europe, especially if the price is right.
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- afrikaskyes
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
There are a lot of people I know that will only fly FL from BMI. Add to that the fact that DL currently flies out of PIA and people STILL drive the 45 mins or so to BMI to fly FL. I think that DL is taking on a market that they have no loyalty in, and trying to make it work against FL.
It works the same way with PIA, sir. Everyday we see passengers fly in from ATL, rent cars in PIA, and DRIVE to BMI. Most of these frequent flyers fly in on Sundays or Mondays from ATL, and then return from BMI on Thursdays or Fridays. These are predominately contractors for State Farm.
They're may be loyalty with Airtran now, but many people might see beyond the usual RDU, MCO, or CLT markets. You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc.....
Again, many of these passengers come from all over Central, IL to fly these routes on a regular basis, including folks going and coming from Bloomington/Normal.
It works the same way with PIA, sir. Everyday we see passengers fly in from ATL, rent cars in PIA, and DRIVE to BMI. Most of these frequent flyers fly in on Sundays or Mondays from ATL, and then return from BMI on Thursdays or Fridays. These are predominately contractors for State Farm.
They're may be loyalty with Airtran now, but many people might see beyond the usual RDU, MCO, or CLT markets. You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc.....
Again, many of these passengers come from all over Central, IL to fly these routes on a regular basis, including folks going and coming from Bloomington/Normal.
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- DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21): I'm sorry, but I don't believe Valujet was ANYWHERE NEAR Ch 11. |
Then you better read some more info about it. After their crash in the Everglades, Valujet was in a very bad situation, as passengers lost their faith in the safety of the airline and avoided it. Not to mention that the temporary shutdown by the FAA wasn't helpful either.
| Quoting Planespotting (Reply 18): yes but what are the odds that there are a lot of people from the quad cities or bloomington and surrounding comms who want to go to moscow, athens, johannesburg (via codeshare), etc... |
The same odds that a lot of people want to make those connections from cities like PIA or FNT
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- access-air
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
I stand by my earlier cooments..I think Delta if they intend on invading this territory need to use something larger than a BarbieJet to make it work.
I might add that just because Delta goes to the Caribbean and South and Central America thru ATL, So does American which now has in place 2 Round trip flights per day from Moline to DFW.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA coustomer loyalty and the competition in That market.
I think CVG would have worked fine for a connecting city had Delta not scaled back their mainline service so much to have Comair with BarbieJets take almost 98% of the market.
Just because these CRJS ( ERJs and FRJs) are not quite as bad....have the range to do long hauls doesnt mean they should...and by no means are these planes to even be thought of as replacements for DC9-10s or BAC 111s or 737-200s or BAe146s....The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190 stuff...
Anyway, back to my comments....I think that Delta is doing this as a move to stifle competitionor run Air Tran out of thses markets only to rutn around and raise fares to make flying out of our area akin to the outrageous prices they charge to fly thru SLC to Wyo, Montana, Idaho or any other northern US city they serve in the Pac NW. Somehow Delta has to make up for all the $79.00 one way fares to FLL from ORD.....
Access-Air
I might add that just because Delta goes to the Caribbean and South and Central America thru ATL, So does American which now has in place 2 Round trip flights per day from Moline to DFW.....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA coustomer loyalty and the competition in That market.
I think CVG would have worked fine for a connecting city had Delta not scaled back their mainline service so much to have Comair with BarbieJets take almost 98% of the market.
Just because these CRJS ( ERJs and FRJs) are not quite as bad....have the range to do long hauls doesnt mean they should...and by no means are these planes to even be thought of as replacements for DC9-10s or BAC 111s or 737-200s or BAe146s....The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190 stuff...
Anyway, back to my comments....I think that Delta is doing this as a move to stifle competitionor run Air Tran out of thses markets only to rutn around and raise fares to make flying out of our area akin to the outrageous prices they charge to fly thru SLC to Wyo, Montana, Idaho or any other northern US city they serve in the Pac NW. Somehow Delta has to make up for all the $79.00 one way fares to FLL from ORD.....
Access-Air
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- padcrasher
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Access-Air (Reply 23): .....Personally I think that Delta is worried about the AA customer loyalty and the competition in That market |
Yes like American worries about Delta customer loyalty in SAV, or NW worries about United customer loyalty in SAN, or Continental worries about NW loyalty in Winnipeg.
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- access-air
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Well if Delta sees that AA started flying from MLI to DFW nonstop to connect to their Latin America and Caribbean Destinations, I can see the reasoning for them trying to capture that same would be traffic....
THATS what I'm talking about, Padcrasher!!
Access-Air
THATS what I'm talking about, Padcrasher!!
Access-Air
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Access-Air (Reply 23): The DC9s BAC 111s 737-200 and BAe146s are superior to ANY regional jet they can produce....even some of the new E-170/190 |
Agreed
Although I think the E-170/190 cool to watch.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22): Then you better read some more info about it. After their crash in the Everglades, Valujet was in a very bad situation, as passengers lost their faith in the safety of the airline and avoided it. Not to mention that the temporary shutdown by the FAA wasn't helpful either. |
While those conditions you describe DID exist, absolutely they did, the company had a stockpile of cash and was not near a ch. 11. Feel free to enlighten me.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Well, having Airtran at BMI is nice, but I live in Peoria, I havent flown on AirTran in awhile, since flying Delta out of PIA is alot more convenient... Either way AirTran does very well in BMI, and I dont think Delta will force them to move out. I know more people will prefer the 717 over the CRJs.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Actually, the closest we ever came to bankruptcy was after the AirTran purchase. We burned through a TON of cash merging the two carriers and completely rebranding/rethinking the new product. Things didn't really start to turn around until '99.
Travis
Travis
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- padcrasher
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
I'd say Airtran is marginal in BMI seeing that their load factor was 67.6% for the first 5 Months of 05 having the Southeast almost to themselves.
Don't blame Delta for putting RJ's in a market just about the right size for RJ's.
And not every BMI customer is crazy about going to see their toothless Uncle in some trailer park next to everglades.
Don't blame Delta for putting RJ's in a market just about the right size for RJ's.
And not every BMI customer is crazy about going to see their toothless Uncle in some trailer park next to everglades.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting STLGph (Thread starter): Airport officials at each city are worried that the appearance of Delta will mean the end of Air Tran service. |
Since they (BMI & MLI) seem to not want DL to serve them to ATL, we'll take it here in CID!
[Edited 2005-09-05 04:43:56]
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
| Quoting Afrikaskyes (Reply 20): You would be surprised how many passengers fly daily from PIA to places like AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, CHS, etc..... |
Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern city.
RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
And for the good of the cause...
MLI on Dec. 1, DL will have 4 Daily to ATL.
Delta 4535 * 6:15am (MLI) 9:17am (ATL)
Delta 4545 * 10:50am (MLI) 1:53pm (ATL)
Delta 4660 * 2:22pm (MLI) 5:28pm (ATL)
Delta 4556 * 4:58pm (MLI) 8:04pm (ATL)
ATL to MLI
Delta 4545 * 9:30am (ATL) 10:20am(MLI)
Delta 4660 * 1:00pm (ATL) 1:52pm (MLI)
Delta 4556 * 3:38pm (ATL) 4:28pm (MLI)
Delta 4579 * 7:00pm (ATL) 7:52pm (MLI)
Delta Flight Schedules
MLI on Dec. 1, DL will have 4 Daily to ATL.
Delta 4535 * 6:15am (MLI) 9:17am (ATL)
Delta 4545 * 10:50am (MLI) 1:53pm (ATL)
Delta 4660 * 2:22pm (MLI) 5:28pm (ATL)
Delta 4556 * 4:58pm (MLI) 8:04pm (ATL)
ATL to MLI
Delta 4545 * 9:30am (ATL) 10:20am(MLI)
Delta 4660 * 1:00pm (ATL) 1:52pm (MLI)
Delta 4556 * 3:38pm (ATL) 4:28pm (MLI)
Delta 4579 * 7:00pm (ATL) 7:52pm (MLI)
Delta Flight Schedules
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- afrikaskyes
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RE: Delta Vs. Air Tran In Central Illinois
Only 27 destinations out of Peoria register ten or more daily O&D passengers, and none of the 27 are AVL, AGS, CHS, CAE, or any other small Southern city.
I could have been more specific. What I'm trying to say is that ASA in PIA see many passengers traveling to other markets than the usual Airtran markets that DL shares out of ATL. Of course most of the PAX aren't going to "small southern cities" on these flights. We do see many ASA to ASA connections, on a regular basis, though. These include many places LIKE...AGS, CAE, AVL, etc....
ASA and DL give way more options out of ATL than Airtran does. Again, you would be surprised to see the obscure places people will travel to out of PIA using ASA. I am confident that BMI will benefit with ASA service. Who cares what the DL strategy is in BMI. People in BMI will have a greater selection out of ATL.
Anyway, I've heard horror stories about Airtran from the BMI people that pay the occasional slightly higher fares to fly into PIA. These are the same people who rent cars from PIA and drive into BMI. There is in my opinion, a rather large population in Central, IL that choose to avoid Airtran like it's the black plague. To be fair, I'm sure it goes the other way. I just haven't met any.
I could have been more specific. What I'm trying to say is that ASA in PIA see many passengers traveling to other markets than the usual Airtran markets that DL shares out of ATL. Of course most of the PAX aren't going to "small southern cities" on these flights. We do see many ASA to ASA connections, on a regular basis, though. These include many places LIKE...AGS, CAE, AVL, etc....
ASA and DL give way more options out of ATL than Airtran does. Again, you would be surprised to see the obscure places people will travel to out of PIA using ASA. I am confident that BMI will benefit with ASA service. Who cares what the DL strategy is in BMI. People in BMI will have a greater selection out of ATL.
Anyway, I've heard horror stories about Airtran from the BMI people that pay the occasional slightly higher fares to fly into PIA. These are the same people who rent cars from PIA and drive into BMI. There is in my opinion, a rather large population in Central, IL that choose to avoid Airtran like it's the black plague. To be fair, I'm sure it goes the other way. I just haven't met any.
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