Trolley Dolley
Topic Author
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Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:31 pm

To all QF a.nutters, could you make a suggestion to the right places about this idea. Given that QF has quite a few 744's sitting around for many hours at LAX, could some of them be put to use to help New Orleans evacuate? I am sure they'd have enough time to mount a few shuttle flights to a nearby safe port.

Yes there are plenty of things to sort through, but it seems like a good chance to utilise these aviation resources that have been used before in times of national crisis. (My cousin was on a QF747-200 when over 20,000 were air evacuated from Darwin in 1974 after Cyclone Tracey.)

I also remember how helpful QF was when I had the formidible task of getting 40 New Zealand based firefighters to Australia, in less than 12 hours, to help with the Canberra bushfires. It seems like an airline with the heart and experience to mount such an operation.

My heart and thoughts go out to all affected by Hurricane Katrina.

[Edited 2005-09-03 09:35:53]
 
centrair
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:55 pm

That would be awsome. It would move a lot of people quickly and be a great show of international friendship but the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

If they could bring in larger planes, I would bet that any international carrier with a 767/A330 or larger just sitting around in the states would offer their services.

Maybe the rules will change when the airport is in a little better condition.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Trolley Dolley
Topic Author
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:20 pm

Oh darn! I suspected there would be a problem with this idea... Thanks for the update tho.
 
propilotjw
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:46 am

I am sorry but i agree with 6thfreedom on this one. US Airlines have MORE than enough "resources" to help out our own people. Having Qantas donate a plane is a bit of an crazy idea because.... who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover? Nice thought but the USA can help out on this one.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:18 am

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
Maybe they should bring back some troops and equipment from Iraq so they can look after their own.

We have more than enough equipment and men at home. Grow up and get off it.

We just have laws in the US preventing military deployment within the country, even in times of disaster. It would take an act of congress to allow for the Army or Air Force to take over the situation. This is why we have the National Guard. And the Guard is doing their job. They are also being called in from other states. There are more than enough.

For better or worse, the US is a republic of states with aversions to federalism by design. This can lead to temporary bottlenecks, between the time the states finally request federal aid and that aid arrives. Aid wasn't even requested until late Monday in New Orleans, and it was authorized on Tuesday, IIRC.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:21 am

A foreign airline cannot operate a domestic flight that carriers local traffic, passenger or cargo, even if it is a relief flight. However, Qantas could apply with DOT for an emergency exemption, which is awarded within 24 hours, and would likely get it.
a.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
A foreign airline cannot operate a domestic flight that carriers local traffic, passenger or cargo, even if it is a relief flight. However, Qantas could apply with DOT for an emergency exemption, which is awarded within 24 hours, and would likely get it.

Isn't AC offering relief flights to Texas? If so they obviously got this exemption, correct?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:35 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 7):
Isn't AC offering relief flights to Texas? If so they obviously got this exemption, correct?

It was from Toronto:
http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...story/09-02-2005/0004099400&EDATE=
a.
 
jjbiv
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:14 am

I believe that the international carrier restrictions only apply to revenue flights, which these obviously would not be.

joe
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Reply 2):
Oh darn! I suspected there would be a problem with this idea...

Hey! Not a problem. Your concern is greatly appreciated  Smile

Quoting PropilotjW (Reply 3):
I am sorry but i agree with 6thfreedom on this one. US Airlines have MORE than enough "resources" to help out our own people. Having Qantas donate a plane is a bit of an crazy idea because.... who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover? Nice thought but the USA can help out on this one.

Who cares? Help is help no matter the source.

Good day to all;

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem
 
A319114
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 9):

Who cares? Help is help no matter the source.

I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.  grumpy 
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
dutchjet
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):

I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.

Firstly, help is now being offered and is likely to be accepted in some form.

Over 80% of the population in the New Orleans area was evacuated....the remaining population was either unwilling or unable to evacuate for many reasons as has been well reported by the media. The disaster in NewOrleans is a two fold - first the affects of the strong hurricane compounded by the failure of the levy system which flooded the city. The situation was and is far more complex than your statement.
 
schipholjfk
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):
I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town.

This is a really stupid comment. Disasters are exactly what they are - disasters. It's man against nature. Everyone was indeed asked to evacuate and some were not able to or chose to remain in New Orleans. No one is perfect and neither is the U.S. That does not mean there are not enough resources in the country to help out in relief efforts. You don't think there are enough military or commercial aircrafts in this country to evacuate all the people? Give me a break. Mistakes have been made and there is no doubt about it. And I hope we learn from this disaster. But for you to show your anti-American feeling when a tragedy has taken place is childish. I bet in your eyes the United States could do no right... and everything that is wrong in the world is is our fault. Give me a break. Unless you have anything constructive to say that will make the stituation in New Orleans better, keep your anti-American sentiments to yourself at this moment when innocent people are needlessly suffering.

[Edited 2005-09-04 03:28:42]
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
HPRamper
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Thread starter):
I am sure they'd have enough time to mount a few shuttle flights to a nearby safe port



Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

I thought Trolley clearly mentioned a "nearby safe port" - not MSY, not GPT, but another airport in the region that can easily handle a widebody.

I think the time is past for evacuations on any large scale, but in the coming months we will need transport of materials and laborers to repair and rebuild the city. Then we may see more carriers participating in this sort of thing.
 
halls120
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:40 am

Quoting A319114 (Reply 10):
I agree. Sometimes I find the American blunt refusal of well intented help quite arrogant. If the United States could take care of the disaster themselves so well, than why wasn't the entire of New Orleans evacuated before Katrina hit the the town

Because the Mayor didn't have a plan for, or the means to carry out, a mandatory forced evacuation.

Part of the problem is that most of the people didn't take the warnings to leave seriously. I lived in New Orleans for 4 years, and experienced 3 approaching hurricanes. Every one of them petered out as soon as it hit the Mississippi river passes, so damage was always minimal.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
VHXLR8
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting PropilotjW (Reply 3):
who will be flying this aircraft while the crews are on a legal layover?

Most likely it would be crews who volunteer to work the relief flights in their own time; as was what happened with the evacuation flights after the tsunami.
 
skywatch
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:41 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
That would be awsome. It would move a lot of people quickly and be a great show of international friendship but the only problem is that the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY.

MSY is teeming with DC-10's, C130's, and DC-8's at the moment. Are those just used for aid shipment?

---Skywatch
------Forever Watchin' The Sky------
 
goomba
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:30 pm

Ugh!!!

Not that this has anything to do with aviation....

The majority of the 20% of the population that didn't leave New Orleans were too poor to leave (didn't have the means to do so).

Please keep in mind that the choice not to rebuild or insure integrity of the levee system in New Orleans was not as much a federal issue as it was a state and local issue.

The many decision makers who have held office there for a number of years knew that this could happen at any time, yet ignored the experts.

A319114's statement really bothered me. Sorry to rant folks...

A319 - Your country lost 6000 souls to a flood on the North Sea 40 years ago before you rebuilt your levee system. Why weren't those people evacuated then?

Not comparing an eye for an eye, but I really didn't appreciate your comment.
 
beyauty
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 12):
No one is perfect and neither is the U.S.

"Mistakes have been made and there is no doubt about it"

No one is saying the US is perfect, however, you cannot reduce the collossal incompetence, and complete breakdown of the system when it came down to the response that was needed to deal with the situation, to a simple statment that "mistakes have been made". There is absolutely no reason why 15000+ people were not "noticed" for a full 4 days after the disaster hit, and that an NBC reporter was there within 2 days with his SUV, while the National Guard was claiming that they could not reach them. To me, that borders on criminal neglect. Somebody better take responsbility for the thousands who died, not as a result of the hurricane, but as a result of sheer incompetence and neglect. Why didn't the national guard send in their C130's and other aircraft the day after this occured to pull the thousands of people out? Was there no contingency plan in place to do so? I find that very hard to believe. You would expect that a third world country would not have such plans, but the US? That's just unbelievable.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):
Because the Mayor didn't have a plan for, or the
means to carry out, a mandatory forced evacuation

Did FEMA have a plan? If not, why not. They certainly have the means to carry out such a massive evacuation using whatever aircraft and ground transportation, especially because 1 year ago, they completed a simulation and they knew exactly what would happen to that city.

I'm glad to hear that commercial aircraft are currently being used to evacuate all those destitute people, and glad to hear that the government is footing the bill, however, it is tragic to say that it is too little and too late for hundreds and perhaps of thousands of people.
 
CORULEZ05
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:39 pm

They could help out but if they really wanted 747's, they would call up United and/or Northwest.

Besides, at this time they are only allowing narrowbodies which makes absolutely no sense....widebodies=more seats=getting people out of there quicker.
Fly jetBlue today!!!!!!!
 
goomba
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:56 pm

beyauty

The issue was critical mass. There were more than 15,000 evacuees in New Orleans. Over 70,000 people rode out the storm.

We had to wait for thousands of troops (guard and military) to come together at once to march into New Orleans.

1. Had we launched smaller groups into the city with supplies they ran the great risk of being overwhelmed by the people (many armed might I add). If that was the case, would all of the people received rations? No!!

2. Smaller groups carry smaller number of rations in the first place. Would you want to be the one that carries in 5000 MRE's for 25,000 people and have to tell them that there wasn't enough to go around?

Oh yeah - hundreds of murders and rapes have taken place over the past few days while people are trying to help. Not exactly the ideal place to try to bring food and water into. I needent remind you that doctors and nurses were being shot at while trying to transport the critically ill from downtown hospitals. Imagine if these folks were in uniform?

Believe me it's really sad - I wish it were different.

But I believe that those involved in getting supplies to the people of New Orleans did it in the only way in which they could. They insured that more people received supplies at once and insured the safety and integrity of the operation. Kudos and accolades to all of you.

God Bless all the suffering people tonight.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:46 pm

Finger pointing eh? Need I remind everyone that FEMA (which has been around a long time) is now under control of the Homeland Security department. Now, not to throw my personal opinions around, but a CNN poll shows that 89% of those polled believe that just as what happened in New Orleans and the Gulf coast area, the Department of Homeland Security would not be able to cope with a major terrorist attack.

How about they put the Thousands Standing Around to work draining the city and retreiving the dead? I don't think MSY will be needing their services for a while.
 
TG990
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:04 pm

What US airlines are actually helping???? There must be someone?

I feel the US made more of a rush for international conflict problems compared with their own citizens in New Orleans.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:11 pm

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 9):
Who cares? Help is help no matter the source

EXACTLY

Quoting Centrair (Reply 1):
the FAA, TSA and FEMA are limiting refugee flights to 737s and A320 sized aircraft into MSY

.
Any reason why? I've even seen an AN-125 at MSY.
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
Shenzhen
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:20 pm

Maybe use a couple of those the Qantas 747s to fill the hole in the levy? Good idea? LOL Cheers
 
iwok
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:34 pm

Quoting Trolley Dolley (Thread starter):
Yes there are plenty of things to sort through, but it seems like a good chance to utilise these aviation resources that have been used before in times of national crisis. (My cousin was on a QF747-200 when over 20,000 were air evacuated from Darwin in 1974 after Cyclone Tracey.)

I am sure that FEMA is seriously considering your idea, and that a blue ribbon Congressional panel has been convened to consider the key logistical questions...who will get the credit, who has juristiction, what is the actual proof that there are even any displaced persons in New Orleans etc  Yeah sure. Expect a detailed press statement in the next few weeks outlining a plan of action to formally evaluate the need for such an airlift, and to propose clear lines of communication for how the study is to be conducted, and the process by which the evaluation committee will be nominated.  Yeah sure

Quoting TG990 (Reply 22):
I feel the US made more of a rush for international conflict problems compared with their own citizens in New Orleans.

So sad, but so true...

Suggesting to FEMA: turn on FoxNews or CNN to find out where people need help.  Yeah sure

-iwok
 
pictues
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
It was from Toronto:

If you read the article properly you would see they will be shuttleing pax from MSY to San Antonio AFB.
 
kanebear
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:03 am

On the QF744... bad idea as it would need to be thoroughly cleaned afterwards. Remember, many of these folks have been waist-neck deep in sewage for days... they haven't had a bath in days... any of those A/C are gonna need to be pulled out of service and have the seat covers laundered. So sure it could manage the flight in no time but you wouldn't want to be on it going LAX-SYD that night.

Somewhat OT: New Orleans and Louisiana state officials blew it on this one. FEMA and Department of Homeland Security aren't the only ones to blame.

If New Orleans had a true disaster evacuation plan, had backup communications systems (not difficult... even a two meter ham radio can be pressed into service and has a HUGE range) and a true command and control chain (remember the police complaining they had no support, control or guidance right after the storm?) this wouldn'tve gotten out of hand.

Instead, you had POLICE looting along with everyone else. Witness many photos of officers walking out of stores with handfulls of DVDs, etc. From an administrative and judicial standpoint, New Orleans completely disintegrated. I heard lots from the Mayor of New Orleans, where were the police and fire chiefs? Of course it's far easier to point fingers elsewhere which is exactly what the N.O. mayor and governor are doing.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:45 am

That doesn't make any sense. So New Orleans should have been able to take care of itself? What about 9/11 - I seem to recall the federal government helping out NYC.

Truth is, the levees holding the water out of NO were never designed to withstand anything greater than a category 3 hurricane. Failure in planning? Maybe, but years ago when they were built I'm sure a major hurricane like this wasn't banked on.

Think about it, the New Madrid fault line in Tennessee has had some major earthquakes in the past. Do you think Memphis could survive an earthquake of about 8 on the Richter scale? Same with Los Angeles. They have frequent earthquakes but usually nothing larger than about 7.5. L.A. would be completely wrecked if they had an earthquake of a 9 magnitude, and it would be a disaster on the scale of this hurricane or worse.
The World Trade Center was supposedly designed to take a direct aircraft hit. Did it? Was it a planning failure? Of course not. You cannot blame the builders for what happened.

It's a hard lesson, but a lesson learned nonetheless. We can only hope people will take this to heart and rebuild those levees to withstand anything nature can throw at them.

No, New Orleans was not prepared for this. Who is ever truly prepared for such a disaster? That is what makes it a disaster and it happens all the time all over the world. Pointing fingers doesn't solve anything. But nobody should expect any city to totally fend for itself when something like this happens, whether it be Los Angeles, New Orleans or Brunswick Maine. FEMA is around for a reason and they didn't produce like they were expected to - another hard lesson learned.
 
kanebear
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:28 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 28):
That doesn't make any sense. So New Orleans should have been able to take care of itself? What about 9/11 - I seem to recall the federal government helping out NYC.

Until assistance got there, yes. The federal government DID assist in NYC after 9/11. Recall, though, that the primary people on the scene in the first days after 9/11 were NYPD and NYFD. It took others some time to get in place.

Quote:

Truth is, the levees holding the water out of NO were never designed to withstand anything greater than a category 3 hurricane. Failure in planning? Maybe, but years ago when they were built I'm sure a major hurricane like this wasn't banked on.

Think about it, the New Madrid fault line in Tennessee has had some major earthquakes in the past. Do you think Memphis could survive an earthquake of about 8 on the Richter scale? Same with Los Angeles. They have frequent earthquakes but usually nothing larger than about 7.5. L.A. would be completely wrecked if they had an earthquake of a 9 magnitude, and it would be a disaster on the scale of this hurricane or worse.
The World Trade Center was supposedly designed to take a direct aircraft hit. Did it? Was it a planning failure? Of course not. You cannot blame the builders for what happened.

I'm not arguing that the levees weren't designed to withstand the power of Katrina. I'm arguing that New Orleans has known this scenario was likely given a strong enough hurricane. They've known for years. The Times Picayune did a story back in 2002 laying out the sequence of events with eerie accuracy.

This is a serious disaster but it's certainly not the only one we've been through. SFO had a massive earthquake. HOU had massive flooding in 2001 that was similar in it's devastation. Florida has been nailed by hurricanes time and time again over the past years. In each case, the local and state resources have been on the scene first and the federal resources have arrived as quickly as possible. Again, FEMA should've been on site more quickly, but things never should've degenerated to the level they did. That fault lies squarely at the feet of New Orleans and Louisiana. Major cities and states DO bear responsibility for disaster and contingency planning. Does it look like any sort of plan was at work in New Orleans at all?

Quote:

It's a hard lesson, but a lesson learned nonetheless. We can only hope people will take this to heart and rebuild those levees to withstand anything nature can throw at them.

No, New Orleans was not prepared for this. Who is ever truly prepared for such a disaster? That is what makes it a disaster and it happens all the time all over the world. Pointing fingers doesn't solve anything. But nobody should expect any city to totally fend for itself when something like this happens, whether it be Los Angeles, New Orleans or Brunswick Maine. FEMA is around for a reason and they didn't produce like they were expected to - another hard lesson learned.

No city should ever totally have to fend for itself. However, no city should ever rely on outside resources totally either. What is the purpose of city and state government if not for disaster contingency planning? Who knows the city and it's population better than city government? Should FEMA have to draw up plans and allocate resources for every city in the country? That's a waste of resources! I can guarantee you that Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Boston, San Antonio, Austin, etc etc etc, all have contingency plans for various disasters. New Orleans may have as well, but they surely didn't execute worth a damn.
 
A319114
Posts: 520
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting Goomba (Reply 17):

A319114's statement really bothered me. Sorry to rant folks...

A319 - Your country lost 6000 souls to a flood on the North Sea 40 years ago before you rebuilt your levee system. Why weren't those people evacuated then?

My apologies if I offended anyone with my post, unfortunaly some people misunderstood my words (which of course can be my own fault). I didn't mean to criticize the rescue or evacuation operation, I merely tried to show that this horrible disaster is so huge that international help is needed, I think. Blindly rejecting international help is ignorant in my view, which I tried to show by my example.

Again, I'm sorry if I offended someone.
Destruction leads to a very rough road but it also breeds creation
 
halls120
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting Beyauty (Reply 18):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):
Because the Mayor didn't have a plan for, or the
means to carry out, a mandatory forced evacuation

Did FEMA have a plan? If not, why not. They certainly have the means to carry out such a massive evacuation using whatever aircraft and ground transportation, especially because 1 year ago, they completed a simulation and they knew exactly what would happen to that city.

FEMA and the federal government are NOT responsible for pre-event and initial response planning. In fact, the federal government warns state and local governments NOT to expect federal assistance for the first 72-96 hours following a significant event.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
HPRamper
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:17 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 29):
Does it look like any sort of plan was at work in New Orleans at all?

Reports are just now coming out about the process of events that brought about this disaster. Building levees is not the job of the City of New Orleans, it is the job of the Army Corps of Engineers. Who does what work is different throughout the country, in this area of the lower Mississippi the ACE is responsible. Likewise, the funding for the ACE does not come from local or state government, it comes form the federal government. And as things clear up we see that funding for the ACE hasn't been near what they requested for even the specific task of reinforcing the New Orleans levees.

I've never said the city should have no responsibility. But throw a hurricane at ANY city, not just in the United States but in the world, add flooding anywhere from five feet to 20 feet for the next two days and you will always have a catastrophe like this, and the authorities will be just as helpless. New Orleans just happened to get it bad because it is located in the worst location possible for a city - 70% under sea level and in a hurricane-prone area of the Gulf. Thus such a disaster would be highly unlikely anywhere else in the country if not the world.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:19 pm

Quoting VHXLR8 (Reply 15):
Most likely it would be crews who volunteer to work the relief flights in their own time; as was what happened with the evacuation flights after the tsunami.

The Australian Government should have arranged for one of the Qantas 744's sitting at LAX to go in and evacuate the 50 or so Australians that were trapped there along with any Kiwis or other foreign nationals that were stranded there. It only took our TV reporters a couple of days to go in and track down the vast majority of our nationals there so it would have been relatively easy to get word to people to go to the airport and wait there rather than go to elsewhere. We also should have ignored the American Government and sent in Consular Officials with an armed escort to co-ordinate. At times like this you don't piss fart around with diplomatic niceties while anything could be happening to your people. Go in, get them and get out. If the American Government doesn't want assistance with its own citizens then the least we should have done is go and get ours.
 
kanebear
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 33):
We also should have ignored the American Government and sent in Consular Officials with an armed escort to co-ordinate

I can see that headline... Australia invades New Orleans. No, seriously; as for the Aussies stuck in NO... you couldn'tve taken a large enough force in there to avoid a lynching unless you went in with the National Guard. Trust me, if you tried to get 50 people out while leaving everyone else behind you'dve had a lot of hurt and dead people on your hands and an international relations fiasco on your hands. Exactly how many people would you take in to get your people out?
 
dfwagt
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:39 pm

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:26 pm

I don't think that MSY can handle at 744 at this time. AA is running 4 MD-80s in and out of there a day right now. I work at AA, and I am headed to help with the evacs this weekend.
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 34):
you couldn'tve taken a large enough force in there to avoid a lynching unless you went in with the National Guard.

Which is why you don't take them all at once. We had our 2 principle commercial TV netorks doing stories about how their journalists were arranging for Australians to be privately evacuated from New Orleands under armed guard. If they can do that unofficially, then much more could have been done with a little bit of quiet support and logistics from our government.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 34):
Exactly how many people would you take in to get your people out?

It took 1 journalist, 1 truck and 1 armed guard to evacuate 6 people out of there with Channel 7. Once they did it of course Channel 9 decided they needed a scoop and did the same thing. As I said above, if 2 TV networks can do it our government could have done it as well especially considering the great track record we have in getting our citizens out of trouble spots by air evacuation.
 
6thfreedom
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:38 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 3):
Maybe they should bring back some troops and equipment from Iraq so they can look after their own.

We have more than enough equipment and men at home. Grow up and get off it.



Quoting PropilotjW (Reply 3):
I am sorry but i agree with 6thfreedom on this one. US Airlines have MORE than enough "resources" to help out our own people.

Obviously I was a little too direct in my earlier post, hence the deletion.

My point is that as the wealthiest country in the world, the USA should be in a position to look after itself.

Apologies if I offended anyone..
 
kanebear
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 36):
It took 1 journalist, 1 truck and 1 armed guard to evacuate 6 people out of there with Channel 7. Once they did it of course Channel 9 decided they needed a scoop and did the same thing. As I said above, if 2 TV networks can do it our government could have done it as well especially considering the great track record we have in getting our citizens out of trouble spots by air evacuation.

IMO the journalist was the key. They never would've gotten in and/or would've had their vehicle commandeered. Good show on not getting brutalized by the crowds.
 
QantasffCL
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:17 am

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:00 pm

Qantas is always there working behind the scenes, always without a shove from the politically correct, conservative AUS government. They send dedicated daily services following Bali Bombing, Asian Tsunami and Cyclone Tracy. They are the only non-government subsidised/owned airline to be in to be rated 5th in the world (Skytrax 2005) and be in the top 3 most profitable airline in the world and the top 10 or 15 revenue wise. Perfect mix!

Did any Yankee Doodle airline attempt anything. I think not! Personally I think America has a population that is to large to make things work easily. Australia can implement and manage things easier considering it has say 5 major cities and only 20million.

America spends the most per person on health and education in the world yet lags behing most of western europe....
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting Jjbiv (Reply 8):
I believe that the international carrier restrictions only apply to revenue flights, which these obviously would not be.

No, it applies to all flights. revenue or not. Though the US DOT has granted an exemption to foregin airlines to operate domestic relief flights:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p82/344301.pdf
a.
 
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NWOrientDC10
Posts: 1283
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RE: Could QF 744's Help New Orleans?

Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 37):
Obviously I was a little too direct in my earlier post, hence the deletion.

My point is that as the wealthiest country in the world, the USA should be in a position to look after itself.

Apologies if I offended anyone..

No apologies necessary, 6thfreedom...

I agree wholeheartedly. Disasters tend to bring out the best  Smile(and unfortunately, the worst Sad) in us here in the states.

BTW, I'm politically incorrect and d*&# proud of it!

Good day to all

Russell
Things aren't always as they seem