WNfan333
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:41 pm

US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:47 am

Just wondering if anyone had any info on any possible new routes, cities etc. in the upcoming months after the merge?
Billy
 
jmc1975
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:52 am

In the months following the merger, expect to see a pullback and reduction of unprofitable routes. Since 60 aircraft are being returned, they will be focused on trying to right-size the airline rather than spending additional capital to launch service into new markets.
.......
 
brokenrecord
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:54 am

Agreed. I don't expect we will see new service launches until probably next summer.
 
WNfan333
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:07 am

Wow 60 A/C...Are those going to be US or America West aircraft. Also what about the firm orders these two have. Will those be fulfilled or not?
Billy
 
brokenrecord
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:14 am

Mostly US I think. Older 737's...

Firm orders to Airbus should be fulfillable...
 
jaybird
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:20 am

"they've" said that the merged carrier will be operating under 2 certificates for 2 to 3 years - which means that HP crews have to operate HP aircraft - and US crews have to operate US aircraft. My guess is that they're going to right-size the map first .. cut some routes .. prehaps cut frequencies in some markets .. adjusting to the cut in fleet size. Then once they are operating only under one certificate (US) - that's probably when you'll see more connecting of the dots .. just my thoughts.
 
WNfan333
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:35 am

I hope to see more routes out of MCO. I know it will probaly take a while though.
Billy
 
hz747300
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:39 am

Look for PHX - LGW. But even that may be a year or so off.
Keep on truckin'...
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:02 am

Yeah nothing has been said about new routes. It will probably take a while to start anything new. There may be some adjustments done to exisiting cities.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:05 am

There will likely be some new routes, but they would be replacing other routes that will be disappearing. It's all about profit....we could also see some new routes open up at the expense of flight frequency from other locations.
 
brokenrecord
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:10 am

Brokenrecord just wants US to retake gates A7 and A9 at ORF, and start some routes to compete with WN (i.e., LAS, FLL).  Smile
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:50 pm

I don't know about that, at least not in the near future. ORF is just too close to CLT and especially the focus station at DCA to justify mainline flights to PHX or LAS. I'm seeing mainly a lot of feeder regional service to CLT and DCA and possibly a couple to PIT or BOS. In other words, not much difference. But we'll see.
 
brokenrecord
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:03 pm

I know it's a pipe-dream...

Mainline to BOS would be nice...
 
PVD757
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:13 pm

Look for PVD-PHX rather soon into the merger. PVD-LAS should come later on...
 
apodino
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
I don't know about that, at least not in the near future. ORF is just too close to CLT and especially the focus station at DCA to justify mainline flights to PHX or LAS. I'm seeing mainly a lot of feeder regional service to CLT and DCA and possibly a couple to PIT or BOS. In other words, not much difference. But we'll see.

Its very possible, since ORF will be an Air Wisconsin Crew Base and Maintenance Facility. I look for this to be a significant focus operation for USAirways express. To what degree is anyones guess.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:54 am

Quoting Wnfan333 (Reply 6):
I hope to see more routes out of MCO



Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 10):
Brokenrecord just wants US to retake gates A7 and A9 at ORF, and start some routes to compete with WN (i.e., LAS, FLL). Smile

You people really want US to jump into extremely low-profit, highly served, never-gonna-make-a-buck routes, don't you? LAS, FLL, MCO are NOT routes to start if you want to make money... because the competition is extremely fierce already.
 
exFATboy
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:25 am

I think you'll see some isolated service increases in the initial consolidation, but only if US identifies any underserved markets. Might see some smaller cities in the West connected to an East Coast hub (e.g. FAT, BFL), but any large-scale expansions will likely come after the fleet rationalization is completed.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 13):
Look for PVD-PHX rather soon into the merger. PVD-LAS should come later on...

Hmmm, tough call. PVD-LAS offers better O&D potential, but PVD-PHX would offer better connections to Mexican destinations. Connections to other west coast cities about the same. BUT WN already flies PVD-PHX non-stop. If they launch new PVD service in winter, then I'd say do PHX first for the Mexico connectivity, otherwise I'd go with LAS first - beat WN to the punch, and why get into a direct fight with WN until you have to?
 
Garri767
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:46 am

hopefully america west express will begin here in amarillo, i have been waiting for an airline OTHER THAN SOUTHWEST to have nonstop to vegas
Two wrongs may not make a right, but three lefts do!
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:48 am

Amarillo would seem to be a logical choice, at least for CR2 if not CR9 service.
 
skymileman
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:48 am

I know it's not going to happen, but America West already flies BIL-PHX and LAS. I think it would be nice to have some commuter service back east to the US hubs since it will all be US eventually anyway. Just a dream.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:34 am

I have a flight to Phoenix from MIA in two weeks on HP, Do you think the flight will be affected in some way?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
stirling
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 7):
Look for PHX - LGW

Why would they want to do that?

What does the new airline gain from this route that cannot already be accomplished through existing flights to existing hubs, and by existing airlines to the primary connecting market from Phoenix: Southern California.

The only thing definite is service to Hawai'i. And even still, I can see this as of primary benefit to satisfy the frequent flyers.....Hawai'i being the number one destination requested on award tickets.

An odd Caribbean destination may pop up here and there....but other than that, US Airways/America West needs to rationalize the network, not make it more byzantine with a myriad of added P2P routes, and redundant hub connectivity to secondary and tertiary markets.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
You people really want US to jump into extremely low-profit, highly served, never-gonna-make-a-buck routes, don't you? LAS, FLL, MCO are NOT routes to start if you want to make money... because the competition is extremely fierce already.

Yep.

60 aircraft gone doesn't bode well for expansion.

I would say service cuts are going to be wide-spread. If anything, the aircraft remaining will be used to bolster existing city-pairs...like PHX-SoCal, NE-Florida, and major business centers to the big 3 hubs etc. (PHX/PHL/CLT)

Any expansion to come will most likely come at the hands of their Express partners. It's called shifting the burden of risk to someone else.

If anything, the new combined carrier needs to address the unanswered forays of Southwest into the most-profitable territories of both airlines.
Expect concentrations of services, not spreading the remaining fleet even thinner.
Key markets will become stronger, marginal markets will be cut.
Delete this User
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 20):
I have a flight to Phoenix from MIA in two weeks on HP, Do you think the flight will be affected in some way?

Affected by what? I'm sure it will operate normally.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
LAS, FLL, MCO are NOT routes to start if you want to make money

LAS from where? I see many people are not understanding that LAS is going to be a hub, not a focus city. The new airline will have four hubs, not three, and PIT will be a large enough operation to almost be hub #5. Either way, LAS is going to remain a stronghold for the airline as it is now.
 
Indy
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:53 am

LAS has to be your biggest focus either way being the #1 O/D per capita airport in the country. But given that its so heavy on O/D can you really call it a hub versus focus city? How does connecting traffic in percentage of total seats compare to that of PHX, CLT and PHL?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:12 am

HP connects at least 30% of its flights through LAS as opposed to PHX. I have routed through LAS to get to the east coast and back just as often as PHX.
 
Indy
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:26 am

Connecting in LAS can't be bad. Hop off the plane and play some slots until its time to catch the connecting flight. Probably the only time you wouldn't complain of a 4 hour layover  Smile
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
HPRamper
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:52 am

I was there for eight hours last week. Played some slots in the terminal, took a jaunt out on the strip and was back in time to get on my plane to PDX
 
ejmmsu
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:06 am

If there is any initial expansion at all, it would most definately be express routes on mid-american cities that are currently only served by one or the other.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
PVD757
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:06 pm

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 16):
Hmmm, tough call. PVD-LAS offers better O&D potential, but PVD-PHX would offer better connections to Mexican destinations. Connections to other west coast cities about the same. BUT WN already flies PVD-PHX non-stop. If they launch new PVD service in winter, then I'd say do PHX first for the Mexico connectivity, otherwise I'd go with LAS first - beat WN to the punch, and why get into a direct fight with WN until you have to

The problem is the yields to LAS are much lower than PHX from PVD. PHX is PVD's 7th largest O & D market while LAS is 11th. PHX is a little closer than LAS which will reduce the fuel burn to do the same basci thing - connect PVD with the HP west coast network/Mexico/Hawaii. WN only has 2 PVD-PHX flights right now, so there is room for a 1X daily US/HP 757...
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:27 am

Stirling:

A PHX-LGW proposition makes a lot of sense. No US carrier flies it and it would compliment the PHL service already. Just a side note, and I'm not sure a lot of people know this, but it is a HUGE pain for us west coasters to fly from say LA to PHL,EWR or JFK to connect on to London. It essentially is a 24 hour trip (you leave LA in the early morning and arrrive London early morning). A flight out of PHX would be perfect for all us west coasters to connect on to and would do better for our bio clocks.


P.S. I know that VS, AA, UA, BA all have n/s from LA to LHR, that will ALWAYS be more preferential, but again a PHX flight might be cheaper and is just another choice.
 
bongo
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:08 am

What is the actual fleet of US Airways? not counting HP fleet
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
BOSPMV
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:54 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:53 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 28):
The problem is the yields to LAS are much lower than PHX from PVD. PHX is PVD's 7th largest O & D market while LAS is 11th. PHX is a little closer than LAS which will reduce the fuel burn to do the same basci thing - connect PVD with the HP west coast network/Mexico/Hawaii. WN only has 2 PVD-PHX flights right now, so there is room for a 1X daily US/HP 757...

you really think there is enough demand to warrant 3 daily flights? 2 737 and one 757? When you consider that HP sends not 757s to either BOS, BDL, JFK or EWR, I highly doubt they are going to send one to asecondary makret like PVD. I think PVD does well with WNs PHX flights and could stand good on a weekly LAS flight.
 
jmc1975
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:11 am

The PHX-PVD O&D average RASM is only 6.78 cents, clearly insufficient to meet the HP/US business plan to justify nonstop service. To break it down further, WN has 68.8 percent market share with a RASM of 6.77 cents. But the here's the kicker......DL has 6.2 percent market share and a RASM of 5.77 cents while connecting via CVG and 5.3 cents while connecting via ATL. No wonder Delta is having problems. Also, expect the days of US A321s at 757s and PVD to be numbered as they will be deployed on more profitable routes with longer stage length.

[Edited 2005-09-05 22:17:27]
.......
 
PVD757
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 31):
you really think there is enough demand to warrant 3 daily flights? 2 737 and one 757? When you consider that HP sends not 757s to either BOS, BDL, JFK or EWR, I highly doubt they are going to send one to asecondary makret like PVD. I think PVD does well with WNs PHX flights and could stand good on a weekly LAS flight.

Who said it would be a HP 757?

And yes, the demand is there. especially since PHX is a huge hub.

Is there is enough demand for 5 daily CLT flights - NO, but the flights are full of passengers going somewhere else...
 
BOSPMV
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:54 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 33):
Who said it would be a HP 757?

here......

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 28):
WN only has 2 PVD-PHX flights right now, so there is room for a 1X daily US/HP 757...

Some people think that third daily flight to PHX and also a daily flight to LAS makes sense, which I believe will only hurt things, as I would assume one of the main reasons WN has the PHX flights is for feeder service to SAN, LAX, LAS, OAK, etc. Having an addition of 2 daily flights to the region will take away from the feeder service from the existing two dailies by WN.

[Edited 2005-09-06 22:19:13]
 
jmc1975
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting BOSPMV (Reply 34):
Some people think that third daily flight to PHX and also a daily flight to LAS makes sense, which I believe will only hurt things, as I would assume one of the main reasons WN has the PHX flights is for feeder service to SAN, LAX, LAS, OAK, etc. Having an addition of 2 daily flights to the region will take away from the feeder service from the existing two dailies by WN.

I agree completely. A HP/US PHX-PVD flight would flood the market and drive yields down even further. As far as flights of similar stage length, you will be far more likely to see a launch of PHL-PDX, which would better utilize the aircraft with much better yields.
.......
 
georgiabill
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:41 pm

Once again PVD757 has over stated the importance of Providence!! A logical(since not served )would be a MHT-PHX route! Taking passengers from north of of 128 in Mass, southeastern Maine, Eastern VT and of course NH. No competition, a good scheduling could be very successful for the new US! Just my thoughts! OH PVD757 in case you missed it Providence isn't the center of the universe! LOL
 
PVD757
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:27 pm

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 36):
Once again PVD757 has over stated the importance of Providence!! A logical(since not served )would be a MHT-PHX route! Taking passengers from north of of 128 in Mass, southeastern Maine, Eastern VT and of course NH. No competition, a good scheduling could be very successful for the new US! Just my thoughts! OH PVD757 in case you missed it Providence isn't the center of the universe! LOL

OK Georgiabill, whatever.

I know the PVD market better than any other air service market, so I therefore put my efforts into discussing what I feel might work there.

As for MHT-PHX it has a bit more than half the demand that PVD-PHX does and a quarter the demand that BOS-PHX does. Talk about not being at the center of the universe!!

PVD is the center of the universe for me - it's my job!!
 
flyboy7974
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43 pm

sidenote, correction, hp is flying the 757 currently to ewr, late afternoon flight from vegas, early morning back westbound, in the schedule til the oct schedule change
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 36):
Once again PVD757 has over stated the importance of Providence!! A logical(since not served )would be a MHT-PHX route!

Seems like you are criticizing a so called biased person while being biased yourself! Just because an airlines doesnt fly the route, doesnt make it "logical" for an airline to start it. Take away BOS and MHT is a very small market. If US was SSSOOO sucessful in MHT would they be reducing down to a meager 8 daily mainline flghts and dropping PIT all together? Not saying it wont happen, but its one thing to support the home airport, another thing to be biased and criticise others. I havent lived in PVD territory for over 4 years now, by people like myself and PVD757 do this for a career and know what the market can and cannot support, its not a bias since we back it up with numbers. Too many hobbyists and arm chair CEOs out there think that servies to their airport are "logical" or overdue since no one serves it, when in all likelyhood there is a reason for it,....the right market condidtions dont exists!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
BOSPMV
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:54 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 36):
Once again PVD757 has over stated the importance of Providence!! A logical(since not served )would be a MHT-PHX route! Taking passengers from north of of 128 in Mass, southeastern Maine, Eastern VT and of course NH. No competition, a good scheduling could be very successful for the new US! Just my thoughts! OH PVD757 in case you missed it Providence isn't the center of the universe! LOL

I am willing to be that there are more people in norfolh county than in essex county, Norfolk is much closer to PVD. So if you want to say that, then you could also say that PVD would attract more people from the southern part of the 495 area and the southern parts of 95. PVD would be a better choice out of the 2 for any airline looking to penetrate the New England market. It's pretty simple, Providence is a larger city, larger metro area, more big business, more colleges, closer to the Metro Boston area, thus it can pull more people away from BOS than MHT can.
 
AirRyan
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RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:58 am

Here's a combined US Airways and America West route map...

http://www.americawest.com/common/resources/_downloads/combo_map.pdf
 
ssides
Posts: 3248
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2001 12:57 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:53 am

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 7):
Look for PHX - LGW. But even that may be a year or so off.

Wouldn't this force BA to switch its PHX service from LHR to LGW? Not that it would stop HP, but ...
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 41):
Here's a combined US Airways and America West route map..

The map leaves off the Big Sky routes in Montana and Idaho...I wonder if they are dropping that codeshare?
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:39 am

Yeah, BA would have to move its flight to GTW if a 2nd carrier starts the route to London. PHX is not a designated point for LHR traffic.
 
hz747300
Posts: 1906
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:06 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 42):
Wouldn't this force BA to switch its PHX service from LHR to LGW? Not that it would stop HP, but ...

Yes, and I think that works to HP/US's advantage. However, we would need to know how many passengers connect from BA's LHR to the rest of Europe. If it is less than 30% then HP/US will win the business and take the route. If it is more, then HP/US has nothing to offer because they cannot fly the route to LHR and use BMI's connections. I think that BA would drop the route if they had to move it back to LGW, and if you want to see Europe, allow two hours for the connection and book with Easyjet from Gatwick.

Like I said though, I think this route is a good 12 months post merger off. PHX-FRA may work, but LH could not make it work, and they received no help from the Arizona government who yanked its commerce office out of Germany to promote AZ business and tourism a few months after the service started. The difference now being both cities will be Star Alliance hubs--in this case I think it means little, and I think the route would be good for 4x weekly at best. And HP/US being the local hero make good, I think they would receive better support from the Arizona government.

In the twelve years I lived in Arizona, I only met three German nationals and they were all at ASU--granted most of my time in AZ was in Safford/Thatcher, where only Mormon missionaries have any desire to leave the country.
Keep on truckin'...
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:21 am

I heard at the time PHX was started by LH that Phoenix has some dot.com companies. After the bubble bursted the flight was still full with tourists, but the high yielding passengers were the problem.
I personally know of some computer specialists from Siemens-Nixdorf who frequently went to Phoenix.
Hasn't LH it's pilot training department in Phoenix? I think I saw it in TV that they send all their training pilots for several weeks to Arizona before they become certificated pilots.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:27 am

What about plans for ANC...???? ANC is a goldmine if they do it right....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
hz747300
Posts: 1906
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:28 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 46):
Hasn't LH it's pilot training department in Phoenix? I think I saw it in TV that they send all their training pilots for several weeks to Arizona before they become certificated pilots.

It's about 20-30 miles outside of Phoenix in a small community called Maricopa.
Keep on truckin'...
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: US Airways/America West Routes

Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 47):
What about plans for ANC...???? ANC is a goldmine if they do it right....

HP already serves ANC from PHX.

N

[Edited 2005-09-08 04:51:06]

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