stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:02 pm

An interesting article in the St. Louis Business Journal, reporting that AA will vacate the B concourse and concentrate all of its operations in the C concourse. It also points out that other airlines in the A concourse have stated that they don't want to move to other gates at Lambert. This is disappointing because I would have thought with all the congestion in the A that maybe a carrier would move to the D, especially, Northwest to add larger aircraft. The only hope to fill the vacant gates, is from other carriers that don't serve Lambert like AirTran and JetBlue. I hope they will announce service soon. Also, has anyone heard anything else on the rumor about Mexicana? Lambert's website still isn't updated, but I expect it to be this week. Here is a link to the article:

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2005/09/05/story5.html
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:44 pm

Holy shit!!! Questions to raise up..


1.Where will the Prop planes go in C? Since it seems every gate there is filled with RJ or Mainline, minues the intl gates, but they are not used. How will the prop flights be loaded and unloaded, through a jetway?

2. Doesn't seem like airlines are interested in moving to D just yet.

3. With the cost of the lease going UP, Southwest will NOT be happy, is a pull out possible now?

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:57 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
1.Where will the Prop planes go in C? Since it seems every gate there is filled with RJ or Mainline, minues the intl gates, but they are not used. How will the prop flights be loaded and unloaded, through a jetway?

Thats a good question. I would guess since they are moving all operations including the probs to the C that they will load and unload the pax's through a jetway. Why not use the gates that aren't used for the RJ's and mainline for something like that. They don't use all of the gates on the C only 20 for mainline/RJ and I think there is something like 30 gates on the C.
 
777STL
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
3. With the cost of the lease going UP, Southwest will NOT be happy, is a pull out possible now?

WN makes good money off of the STL routes, and WN's operation at Lambert is pretty good sized.

NO.
PHX based
 
aa777jr
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:01 pm

Wasn't this the grand plan for AA at STL? I think they made it pretty clear and public they were reducing the amount of gates they were required to have since their TW takeover. Can anyone confirm?

Regards.

edit for spelling.

[Edited 2005-09-05 08:02:11]
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:02 pm

Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
An interesting article in the St. Louis Business Journal, reporting that AA will vacate the B concourse and concentrate all of its operations in the C concourse.

My first prediction has come true.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
2. Doesn't seem like airlines are interested in moving to D just yet.

The airlines just aren't interested, period.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
1.Where will the Prop planes go in C?

My guess is the higher end odd numbered C gates.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
LambertMan
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:08 pm

This was expected as AA obviously doesn't even use the D concourse. In fact, its a welcome sign that they are keeping all of concourse C. Since AA is getting those gate leases off it back, who knows...maybe we'll see the electronic gate displays?

Arpey inferred in a article in the Stl-PD a couple months ago that a re-negotiation of gates may mean extra flights......I don't really see how it would mean extra flights, but I could see terminal improvements.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
1.Where will the Prop planes go in C? Since it seems every gate there is filled with RJ or Mainline, minues the intl gates, but they are not used. How will the prop flights be loaded and unloaded, through a jetway?

That is a pretty good question, I guess we'll have to wait and see. We may see the international gates used again since someone is going to have to go somewhere with the props now using concourse C. I'm sure this is contingent on cleaning up the end of concourse C, because as of right now it is not an attractive option.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
2. Doesn't seem like airlines are interested in moving to D just yet.

No point, really. If NW doesn't want to bring in the A319/320, then its irrelevant. AmericaWest has what I call the bastard gate, one which was thrown together in a world of haste. They are the only carrier besides NW that I could see moving, but with the merger many things are still unclear.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1):
3. With the cost of the lease going UP, Southwest will NOT be happy, is a pull out possible now?

Pullout? Most definitely not. BLV is not a feasible alternative, and as of last spring they were seemingly doing much better out of St. Louis. We've had a net gain of 5 flights in the past 2 years. Not stunning growth, but its better than getting flights cut like the years preceeding. WN isn't happy, I am most certainly not denying this. Maybe they'll slash a few weird flights here and there (i.e. BHM/ABQ), but AA would more than likely pick those up in some regional form.
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 3):
WN makes good money off of the STL routes, and WN's operation at Lambert is pretty good sized.

NO.

It's about 64 flights right now. If the costs keep going up, expect the numbers to keep on dropping.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
atrude777
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:19 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 7):
It's about 64 flights right now. If the costs keep going up, expect the numbers to keep on dropping

63, STL is a good operation for Southwest. Southwest WANTS to be succesful at STL, they will do what they can to be succesfull. We will see how much it affects them.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 6):
They are the only carrier besides NW that I could see moving, but with the merger many things are still unclear.

You bring up a good point. With US Airways and America West merging, we may be seeing min 5 daily flights, PHX, PHL, PIT, CLT and LAS? Certainly needs more then one gate, could a move to D help make this easier??

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 6):
WN isn't happy, I am most certainly not denying this. Maybe they'll slash a few weird flights here and there (i.e. BHM/ABQ), but AA would more than likely pick those up in some regional form.

I could see Southwest doing that, but I would be surprised. I never saw the justification of that one daily STL-BHM Flight. It continues on to MCO right?

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 6):
Arpey inferred in a article in the Stl-PD a couple months ago that a re-negotiation of gates may mean extra flights......I don't really see how it would mean extra flights, but I could see terminal improvements.

We DEEPLY need the improvements. Extra flight? Exactly HOW? It seems tight enough now, just wait till the props are moved, and holy crap, C just might look like what it did pre-TWA days.

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 4):
Wasn't this the grand plan for AA at STL? I think they made it pretty clear and public they were reducing the amount of gates they were required to have since their TW takeover. Can anyone confirm?

I believe they did in fact say something. Good point.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 6):
BLV is not a feasible alternative

Think again. All it takes is one carrier to make the trek across the river and there's going to be a mass exodous. PFC's at $3 per passenger to keep ticket prices down and landing fees at $.90 on the 1,000.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 8):
Southwest WANTS to be succesful at STL,

No they don't. They want to be more successful in Chicago.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 8):
I believe they did in fact say something. Good point.

This was never Don Carty's grand plan, mind you.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:32 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 8):
I never saw the justification of that one daily STL-BHM Flight. It continues on to MCO right?

There is not enough O&D demand to warrant the flight between STL-BHM, but the flight is in place more for the benefit of BHM travelers than for STL pax. Actually, it is a very smart move from WN, taking a normal STL-MCO flight, and dropping a stop in BHM in both directions, picking up enough passengers to keep the flights running full. I have flown the BHM-STL and back several times, and it is obvious most of the O&D is between STL-MCO.

Quoting Stl1326 (Thread starter):
reporting that AA will vacate the B concourse and concentrate all of its operations in the C concourse.

No real surprise there, in fact I'm shocked it took them this long. From an operational efficiency and financial standpoint, this move is a no-brainer. A renovated "B" would be a very attractive option for an HP/US/Star Alliance operation, which will be about 35-40 flights per day, adding just a little more fuel to the Lufthansa rumor. I will know I have died and gone to heaven when I see an LH A330 parked at the end of Concourse B....:D
 
burnsie28
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 6):
No point, really. If NW doesn't want to bring in the A319/320, then its irrelevant. AmericaWest has what I call the bastard gate, one which was thrown together in a world of haste. They are the only carrier besides NW that I could see moving, but with the merger many things are still unclear

NW does want to bring the Bus series into STL, so I know NW would be interested in moving, especially since where they are at they cant get a 319/320 into the area.
 
pilotpip
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:41 am

WN isn't going to pay more to stay here. They've proven time and again that plenty of airports are willing to give them what they want at the price they want. NW, and all the others in A aren't going to pay more to be here either. This airport won't realize that charging more for less isn't they way to attract new customers.

BLV will never be a viable alternative for any airline with more than 10 flights per day. They don't have the gates and they don't have the infastructure such as in-ground refueling at the gates for large carriers to add a huge number of flights. It's found it's niche only because St. Clair county is giving that place away. They are charging those carriers no fees and also picking up much of the tab for the ground handling.

Third, landing fees are nowhere near $.90 per 1000 lbs. As of 7/1/05 the rates here are .00556 cents per 1000 pounds above 65,000 mlw. They have gone up significantly since 2003 but the increases happen about every 3-4 months. All of the 121 carriers except FX on the field have contracted rates that I would assume are below this otherwise it wouldn't be in their best intrest to make the contractual agreements.
DMI
 
stl1326
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:42 am

Didn't they take all of the jetways out of the B Concourse? I was surprised by the move out of the B concourse, but in a financial standpoint its a good move. I just can't wait to see how they are going to load and unload pax's from the props on the C.
 
stl1326
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 11):
NW does want to bring the Bus series into STL, so I know NW would be interested in moving, especially since where they are at they cant get a 319/320 into the area.

What I was thinking that they could move somewhere else on the A concourse or add another gate that can accommodate the larger aircraft.
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 13):
Didn't they take all of the jetways out of the B Concourse?

There may be one or two left standing, but I believe they are on the east side of "B". Even with the new tower taking up a significant amount of space at the western base of "B", this concourse could easily reaccomodate 6-7 jetways..
 
HPRamper
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 8):
we may be seeing min 5 daily flights, PHX, PHL, PIT, CLT and LAS? Certainly needs more then one gate

I wouldn't say so, at PDX there are nine flights to PHX and LAS and seven of them go out of one gate. One other gate - D4 - is used only for two RJs in the early morning RON rush, for the rest of the day D3 is used for all outgoing flights. So they could easily use only one gate for all this. They'd need to be close enough together to justify keeping all employees in-house though. No more than an hour in between departure and arrival. But I'd really like to see more of a presence there by the new US. STL would make a great stopover link between the eastern and western hubs, a good RON spot. Flight comes in from CLT, overnights and continues in the morning to PHX. Beautiful.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 8):
Southwest WANTS to be succesful at STL

I was under the impression they'd like to be successful everywhere? haha

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 12):
BLV will never be a viable alternative for any airline with more than 10 flights per day

So, even though it breaks the mold, the new US could feasibly move in, although that would take away the possibility of them using the newly-open space at STL for the much-talked-about mythical midwest focus city they so badly need.
 
FlewGSW
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:42 am

AA at STL has been testing a rolling gate strategy that might be expanded to DFW and ORD soon.

The idea is to utilize gates C2, C6, C10, C14, C18, C22 at the same time leaving the other gates empty.
Then for the next complex use C4, C8, C12, C16, C20, C24.
If a flight is running late from the previous complex you don't affect inbound flights awaiting a gate.

It might also mean that you only need one ground crew to service 2 gates.

I understand that having one ground crew per two gates is how WN does most of their airports.

Also, look for AA in STL to soon post flights to depart and arrive on the 5 minutes (again I think this is what WN does system wide). If it works at STL then you might see this expand to the entire AA (and maybe Eagle too) network.
 
LambertMan
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting FlewGSW (Reply 17):
AA at STL has been testing a rolling gate strategy that might be expanded to DFW and ORD soon.

The idea is to utilize gates C2, C6, C10, C14, C18, C22 at the same time leaving the other gates empty.
Then for the next complex use C4, C8, C12, C16, C20, C24.
If a flight is running late from the previous complex you don't affect inbound flights awaiting a gate.

Interesting.....they sometimes use gate C28 as well at peak periods. And of course, we always have the phantom plane(s) that dock at the high, odd numbered C gates. Wink
 
ultrapig
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:58 am

Good points-

But "Colonel Bogey" Leonord Griggs who ran Lambert into the ground for years and could not keep the place clean or the roofs from leading has now retired but is working for BLV-Let's see what good he does in screwing his former employer
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:12 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 18):
Interesting.....they sometimes use gate C28 as well at peak periods.

So I take it that the International capable gates (C30,32,34,36) are not being used at this point? Sounds like the entire eastern end of the "C" is empty. As STLGph stated earlier, the "high odd number" sounds like where they are headed, keeps 'em out of sight and I'm sure there is more ramp space available than on the even side, closer to the taxiways...
 
atrude777
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 20):
So I take it that the International capable gates (C30,32,34,36) are not being used at this point? Sounds like the entire eastern end of the "C" is empty. As STLGph stated earlier, the "high odd number" sounds like where they are headed, keeps 'em out of sight and I'm sure there is more ramp space available than on the even side, closer to the taxiways...

The gates you mentioned are NOT being used for boarding or deplaning, simply for RON , and others as LambertMan said.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 15):
There may be one or two left standing, but I believe they are on the east side of "B". Even with the new tower taking up a significant amount of space at the western base of "B", this concourse could easily reaccomodate 6-7 jetways..

There are NO jetways at B Concourse. I fly into and out of there quite a bit, and have been to every single gate, and no jetways, we all board by doors, where we take stairs into the tarmac, and then we board the props by the stairs from the plane.

What I am guessing, is if they utilize the intl gates, for the prop boarding, they may use 5 flights per jetway. Board thru the jetway, then their are stairs from the jetway to the ground, and we walk onto the tarmac onto the planes. Sounds easy enough.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
commavia
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:01 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 20):
So I take it that the International capable gates (C30,32,34,36) are not being used at this point? Sounds like the entire eastern end of the "C" is empty.

When I was at STL a few months back, all of the gates on Terminal C above approximately C24/C25 were completely empty and abandoned. It looked like a construction site -- supplies and equipment in the boarding areas, seats removed and stacked from the floor. The remainder of C was pretty busy, albeit mostly with RJs. I think (not sure) that AA is pretty much keeping all mainline flying at C1-C12, with C15-C23 used for the RJs.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
I think (not sure) that AA is pretty much keeping all mainline flying at C1-C12, with C15-C23 used for the RJs.

I thought all mainline was on the even gates (north side) while the RJ's were on the odds (south).

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 21):
There are NO jetways at B Concourse.

It's been about three or four years since I passed thru "B", I parked at the closest gate to the terminal and it was equipped with a jetway. Didn't know if they were still there or not. It has been ages since there has been any major mainline jet operations on Concourse B, would be nice to see that place come alive again. Back in the 70's American operated from this concourse, highlighted by the daily DC-10 to Mexico..
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 23):
I thought all mainline was on the even gates (north side) while the RJ's were on the odds (south).

That is correct, for the most part. A couple gates at the very end of the south side of C are used for mainline, but the vast majority of mainline uses the north end. The 2nd MD80 BOS flight comes in at C38, as me and my parents (DUB-BOS-STL) have used it a few times.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 22):
When I was at STL a few months back, all of the gates on Terminal C above approximately C24/C25 were completely empty and abandoned.

For AA to begin using the former international gates for something more than RON, something must be done. Alex has some pictures of the current state of the gates and they just aren't an option, as of right now anyway. Over the past couple of years new carpet, signage, etc. has been installed in concourse C, none of which has been applied to the high numbered gates.
 
BHMNONREV
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 24):
For AA to begin using the former international gates for something more than RON, something must be done. Alex has some pictures of the current state of the gates and they just aren't an option, as of right now anyway.

Are you speaking of inside the terminal, or rampside? Has AA really let that area go that badly since the 11/03 downsizing?

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 24):
Over the past couple of years new carpet, signage, etc. has been installed in concourse C, none of which has been applied to the high numbered gates.

I'm trying to picture "C" in my mind, but where did they stop with the new carpet? Around the area where the floor angles up, where the peoplemovers are located? And where exactly are the Brooks Bros and Chili's going up at?
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 24):
For AA to begin using the former international gates for something more than RON, something must be done. Alex has some pictures of the current state of the gates and they just aren't an option, as of right now anyway. Over the past couple of years new carpet, signage, etc. has been installed in concourse C, none of which has been applied to the high numbered gates.

I will find them, let me load them up.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 25):
Are you speaking of inside the terminal, or rampside? Has AA really let that area go that badly since the 11/03 downsizing?

Yep, it is a disgrace.

I found the pictures, these are recent as of July 8th, 2005.
http://img298.imageshack.us/img298/1893/phoenixandla0109nc.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9104/phoenixandla0097bq.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9859/phoenixandla0088be.jpg

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3914/phoenixandla0073rk.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4583/phoenixandla0063pi.jpg

As you can see AA has completely abanded the end of C. I am flying out of STL September 17th, in two weeks. I will be sure to swing by the C concourse and check out the gate areas , as well as the new stores.

By the way the D concourse looked much nicer then before.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9981/phoenixandla0058dl.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6379/phoenixandla0048ix.jpg


Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:32 am

That's sad, the end of C used to be one of the nicest parts of the airport.
PHX based
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:57 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:45 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 27):
That's sad, the end of C used to be one of the nicest parts of the airport.

what's really sad is that no one has figured out how to turn lambert into a super-important mid-west hub. it's got such a great location. who would have thunk it would have fallen this far? no one has made up for the loss of TWA, really.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:48 am

Appalling is the only word I can come up with, thanks for uploading the pics Alex. Are you going to take any more when you fly on the 17th? I would like to see what the rest of "C" looks like, the "renovated" parts...

Quoting 777STL (Reply 27):
That's sad, the end of C used to be one of the nicest parts of the airport.

So true. When TW was flying dailies to LGW, CDG and FRA the end of "C" would be absolutely packed every night, that 2nd pic looks very depressing...
 crying 
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 29):
Appalling is the only word I can come up with, thanks for uploading the pics Alex. Are you going to take any more when you fly on the 17th? I would like to see what the rest of "C" looks like, the "renovated" parts...

Yes, my flight leaves from STL on Southwest Airlines at 1:00pm so i will get there about 10:00am and give myself some times to tour C, and grab some more pictures. I plan to grab some more of the CNBCStore, Brooks, and the carpeting (if I can recognize it haha) and others, if you all have any specific request on what you want me to take a picture of please let me know, and I will take note of it when I fly out on the 17th.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 29):
So true. When TW was flying dailies to LGW, CDG and FRA the end of "C" would be absolutely packed every night, that 2nd pic looks very depressing...

How is this for a tear jerker, I sat down in the corner, all by myself. Just thinking back to "the days" I sat near G-38 where Flight 1 from HNL usually pulled up. Faintly, in my head I would hear "Flight 1 from HNL now arriving, customs......" Now it is no more. I lone pilot walks by on his cell phone. I can actually hear him , and what he is saying, and he is across the airport. If it was back in the days, I would never be able to hear that pilot yakking on his cell phone. Walking around that area of C is so despressing. I looked down on the ground and saw the "could have beens" I saw an A318 marked on the ground. For when TWA had ordered the A318. I also saw the has-beens, a faded L1011 and 747 on the ground. A 767. All of them faded and scratched away  Sad.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 28):
no one has made up for the loss of TWA, really.

Sadly, I do not think anyone ever will. STL will never become the airport it was back in 98 and beyond.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 27):
That's sad, the end of C used to be one of the nicest parts of the airport.

I agree.

Hope I didn't make anyone start crying or anything haha. I know i got some tear jerkers coming through
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:19 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 29):
Appalling is the only word I can come up with, thanks for uploading the pics Alex. Are you going to take any more when you fly on the 17th? I would like to see what the rest of "C" looks like, the "renovated" parts...

I was in the C concourse when I was going to Chicago in Aug. and the concourse looks very nice and was very busy. I should have taken some pictures. They have open a Brooks Brothers, MSNBC shop, Chili's, and were working on a new Wolfgang Puck and some other kind of shop. The shops in the concourse really makes a difference in appearance. They are really doing a good job of trying to renovate the C. I also walked through the D and it was a sad site to see. The only nice part of it was the Frontier gates where they actually cleaned the area up. All the shops/restaurants that use to be in the D were all closed up.
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 12):
BLV will never be a viable alternative for any airline with more than 10 flights per day. They don't have the gates and they don't have the infastructure such as in-ground refueling at the gates for large carriers to add a huge number of flights. It's found it's niche only because St. Clair county is giving that place away.

watch them.

and it's found its niche because the carriers can charge significantly less to get the kids to Disney and the parents to Vegas.

Quoting Tockeyhockey (Reply 28):
what's really sad is that no one has figured out how to turn lambert into a super-important mid-west hub. it's got such a great location. who would have thunk it would have fallen this far?

it's terminal and airfield design just isn't hub-friendly.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
vega
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 10):
A renovated "B" would be a very attractive option for an HP/US/Star Alliance operation, which will be about 35-40 flights per day, adding just a little more fuel to the Lufthansa rumor

Seems like a good opportunity for USAirways (after the merger) to refine it's network and move into STL as their mid-point hub and leave PIT out of the picture. I can't understand how PIT is going to benefit the current plan as a "major focus city". A more logical plan would seem to be PHX-STL-PHL as Hubs and CLT, LAS as "Focus Cities". This plan of course, completely ignores the politics involved in doing such a move (i.e., downgrading CLT and PIT). With this plan, both PHX and STL would be able to acquire some direct Europe/Caribbean services with PHL retaining the bulk of those flights with connecting services from STL and a couple of PHX non-stops. US would then be able to greatly reduce the number of non-stop east-west coast flights, which would seem important for a LCC to succeed. Anyway, it's a thought.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
midway7
Posts: 146
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:29 am

The B Concourse did have (3) jetways at B2, B4, and B6. These were there up to the TWA / AA merger. I believe TWA used these for early arriving RON's as well as irregular ops. Most of the time they were occupied by 727, D9S, and M80's. These jetways disappeared with AA.

Back in the day, the concourse was shared by TWA and Ozark. Ozark had the first four gates and TWA had the end gates. I have some old pics of the gates filled with Ozark D9S and TWA 727's and 72S's.

I think at its max, it had (9) jetways parking narrowbody aircraft.

I always thought this was one of the better parts of the airport.
 
lowecur
Posts: 512
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:42 am

Don't think for one second that Gary Kelly won't build a terminal at BLV. If he is willing to spend a hundred million at Boeing Field, he'll threaten to do the same at BLV.
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:59 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Seems like a good opportunity for USAirways (after the merger) to refine it's network and move into STL as their mid-point hub and leave PIT out of the picture. I can't understand how PIT is going to benefit the current plan as a "major focus city"

The same way CLE benefits CO despite being "down the road" from EWR in terms of air traffic. PIT would be used for Midwest/Great Lakes connections (and EAS since PHL is WAY too congested for that) and to relieve congestion at PHL. If a pax has to connect, its going to cost relatively the same to connect in PIT as PHL, and in many instances it'll be shorter in terms of total miles travelled due to PIT's position geographically. Additionally, PIT is MUCH more appealing to travellers making a connection than the disgrace that is PHL.

As for STL... no offense, but having just been in STL for business about a month ago, it's not the most well-kept facility. Likewise, why would US leave a place where they've got people, name recognition, and infrastructure to move into what currently amounts to their system as a normal out-station. The transition costs would probably be huge.
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 35):
Don't think for one second that Gary Kelly won't build a terminal at BLV. If he is willing to spend a hundred million at Boeing Field, he'll threaten to do the same at BLV.

exactly. but the price would be significantly lower since facilities already exist. it's just a matter of adding gates/floor space.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:45 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 36):
As for STL... no offense, but having just been in STL for business about a month ago, it's not the most well-kept facility.

No offense taken sir. We Lambert Field aficionados are aware we have a crappy facility, especially the concourses off the main terminal. East Terminal occupied by WN however, is state of the art. As STLGph stated earlier, we are also hampered by a bad runway layout, which will change somewhat with the new runway coming on line in April 2006. But the fact remains that STL is not a very attractive facility for potential airlines to open a focus operation...
 
HPRamper
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:52 am

I heard the new runway layout won't be very good either...as it will extend straight away from the terminal making for a very long taxi time in some instances. Correct me if I've heard wrong.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9057
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 39):
I heard the new runway layout won't be very good either...as it will extend straight away from the terminal making for a very long taxi time in some instances. Correct me if I've heard wrong.

close. put a good half mile to mile between the terminal and the start of the runway.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 38):
But the fact remains that STL is not a very attractive facility for potential airlines to open a focus operation...

I think we should build that new terminal I proposed ;p
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
IslipWN
Posts: 1082
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:52 pm

Why aren't any airlines interested in terminal D?


Also, might we sometime in the future see a STL-ZRH route?
 
stlgph
Posts: 9057
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:28 pm

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 41):
Why aren't any airlines interested in terminal D?

cost to renovate facilities. then you battle AA ground traffic.

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 41):
Also, might we sometime in the future see a STL-ZRH route?

no
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 36):
PIT is MUCH more appealing to travellers making a connection than the disgrace that is PHL.

Please do me a favor and don't reply to my posts. Your replies to any posting with PHL in them are like listening to a broken record.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:46 pm

Concerning US, PIT, and STL:

US needs a Midwest presence to help with their new coast operations. That is one reason why the PSA marriage didn't work. Now, is STL the place to go? I don't know, I am not running the show. But what I do know is that PIT cannot be used as a Midwest hub. I hate to say it, but PIT is dead. It is a great airport in a faltering city. Pittsburgh cannot support a hub anymore. Simple as that.

Tornado82,

I realize you don't like US. I think everybody realizes that. I don't mind people not liking an airline. I for one dislike many. However, WE GET YOUR POINT! PHL sucks, I realize that, but PIT is dead and PHL will have to do. You have to look at it from a business point-of-view. Where would you have your economical hub, PIT or PHL?

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
stlgph
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:58 pm

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 44):
Now, is STL the place to go?

As long as AA has a large presence here and Southwest maintains the size it is up to as of now, trying to just dive on in here and make a splash....won't happen.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 45):
As long as AA has a large presence here and Southwest maintains the size it is up to as of now, trying to just dive on in here and make a splash....won't happen.

US moving into STL would be the one time where WN/AA agree on something... they'll both move quick and hard to squash the new intruder, and it'll be ugly.
 
FA4B6
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:56 pm

Maybe when B6 gets the 190s, by next year you'll see STL-JFK, STL-BOS, and maybe a Florida route and/or a California route. B6 needs something in between MSY and DEN and STL seems like a great place to start, especially now with all this space and the low cost of operating there.
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:42 am

Quoting FA4B6 (Reply 47):
Maybe when B6 gets the 190s, by next year you'll see STL-JFK, STL-BOS, and maybe a Florida route and/or a California route. B6 needs something in between MSY and AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN and STL seems like a great place to start, especially now with all this space and the low cost of operating there.

Dl and AA have 5 flights between STL-JFK all with RJ's.
If B6 comes in with the 190, They may be succesful, it seems B6 WANTS to come to STL but the A320 is "to big" So I am quite sure we will see them with the 190.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 46):
US moving into STL would be the one time where WN/AA agree on something... they'll both move quick and hard to squash the new intruder, and it'll be ugly.

I am split 50/50 on this. AA is giving up its gates at D AND B with the possibility of another airline coming in and making good use of them. I do not think AA will be so quick to defend STL if US Airways comes in. WN however, we only have N/S to PHX and LAS, we have no n/s to PHL, PIT. IF US airways did come in, I bet WN would make a PHL/PIT n/s.

Quoting IslipWN (Reply 41):
Also, might we sometime in the future see a STL-ZRH route?

Joe- TWA was planning to do this with the A330 that it had ordered. There was enough connecting opportunies to allow a n/s STL-ZRH. Loads and Yields I think would be horrible now if AA or any airline started a STL-ZRH, with absolutely no connecting.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 39):
I heard the new runway layout won't be very good either...as it will extend straight away from the terminal making for a very long taxi time in some instances. Correct me if I've heard wrong.

I think the only airline to voice complaints is Southwest because it is the farthest away from the new runway. They are known for quick taxi times and if they are forced to take off from the new runway it would be a really long taxi, especially when they take off to the east and land to the west on the new runway.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4603
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RE: AA Dropping 25 Of Its 56 Gates At Lambert

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:00 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 40):
put a good half mile to mile between the terminal and the start of the runway

Am I to understand the new runway will be built to the northwest of the existing runway/terminal - if so, what is the logic in that? What of the old runways, will both remain? It seems flight paths would conflict if three remained in operation.

Also, why is a new runway needed period?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+lo...98&spn=0.032364,0.058545&t=k&hl=en