BA380
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VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:28 pm

When Virgin commences service to Montego Bay (MBJ) from London, what efect do you think this will have on Air Jamaica's prestige 'Atlantic Limousine' service from LHR-MBJ?

I would have thought this would be very bad news for AJ. This is the last remaining prestige, long haul service. Surely VS will take a large chunk out of their business?

I appreciate that VS prob won't be flying every day initially, but still...
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:44 pm

I can only speculate on this, but JM has been in pretty deep financial trouble for the past months, and their small longhaul fleet of only 3 (now 2 IIRC) A340s isn't that cheap either. Sure JM has a good following in the Caribbean, but if VS offers low fares and is able to pull pax of JM's UK flights, those flights' future might be in strong doubt, especially if the demand on those routes doesn't justify the need for the small A340 subfleet anymore.
 
BA380
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:50 pm

that's my thinking. I reckon (looking at load factors in the past) that London-MBJ can sustain daily ops, but if AJ lose loads to VS it will get hairy for them. I can't work out how many times VS are proposing to fly LGW to MBJ, but perhaps they will increase it if AJ pulls out longer-term?

I can imagine AJ selling the 340s and exiting the route completely in the medium term.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting BA380 (Reply 2):
I can imagine AJ selling the 340s and exiting the route completely in the medium term.

Me too. It's definitely more likely than JM replacing their A340s with 777s, as has been rumored some months ago. Plus, it could save JM lots of money, and they could still channel their pax through ATL on DL.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:11 am

If VS are only flying the route from LGW maybe there'll still be enough of a distinction from JM flying into LHR. I'd pay an extra £20 or so (and many would pay more) to fly from LHR rather than LGW. Hopefully there's still enough differentiation to keep the route viable.
 
BA380
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:45 am

maybe, but I reckon a lot pf package holidays (not least Virginholidays!) will switch at VS at LGW.

Unless VS's entry grows the market for UK-MBJ - possible! - it would hurt AJ
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
lazyshaun
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:56 am

Quote:
and their small longhaul fleet of only 3 (now 2 IIRC)

Nope, just the 1 now. They gave two of their 340's to AC, which I think they leased to them.

It is a great shame if JM lose money and have to close the route, as their one of the best liveries around at Heathrow these days!

I think it is/was very unlikely for JM to aquire 777's, especially in their financial position.

ZSOFN, I think some people would find it easier to get on a plane from Gatwick than Heathrow because of Londons traffic
I came. I saw. I conquered
 
BA380
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:02 am

agree on the livery - one of my favourite ones, too.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 6):
ZSOFN, I think some people would find it easier to get on a plane from Gatwick than Heathrow because of Londons traffic

I completely disagree. Who drives through the centre of London to get to LHR? And who doesn't have to negotiate the M25 to get to Gatwick? Can you get the tube there? There's a reason slots at LHR are like gold dust and why transatlantic bilaterals only exist there.
 
2travel2know
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:10 am

VS will do well, sure they're doing OK in HAV and I wouldn't be surprised if they soon fly to POP, PUJ or even SDQ.
Back to Jamaica, Which route has better yields? MBJ - London or KIN - London?
MBJ - LHR by JM and future MBJ - LGW by VS seem to be a leisure routes.
Maybe the solution for JM would be like what Trinidad & Tobago did between POS and TAB (like to compare those with KIN and MBJ respectively on Jamaica) BW flies out of POS (highyield) and VS flies out of TAB (leisure traffic) to London.
Some suggestions If JM wants to save money but still keep the London route: they should get rid of A340, get a A330 or A310 (since they like Airbus), "sell" their LHR slots and move to STN or LTN (!), and concentrate in the KIN-London trafficmarket.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 9):
and move to STN or LTN

They'd lose connecting traffic if they did this, and for sure yields would fall. Plus they'd be the only scheduled long haul traffic at these places - makes no sense to me. I think what you say about the low yield/high yield thing with BW / VS makes sense though. I think JM need to do all they can to keep their costs low enough to maintain the LHR slot whilst offering a superior product than VS out of LGW. I'm sure it can be done...
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:21 pm

A332 best fit for AJ no question.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
BA380
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 10):
I think JM need to do all they can to keep their costs low enough to maintain the LHR slot whilst offering a superior product than VS out of LGW. I'm sure it can be done...

I am not at all sure it can be done (superior product to VS) -- don't get me wrong, I have a soft spot for JM, but the food is poor, there are no seatback IFE screens etc. They would need to raise their game to compete head-to-head with VS if route, time and price were identical.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:09 am

Quoting BA380 (Reply 12):
I am not at all sure it can be done

I'm not sure either. VS has done a good job of offering cheap economy fares whilst the product is quite good (apart from the legroom), and for high yield passengers (of which there are probably fewer as it's predominantly a leisure route) VS has an excellent product, with economy plus and upper class. I would say the key for JM would be to offer something similar to economy plus, charge slightly higher fares and maximise their differentiation.

Hmm... Not likely is it?
 
A342
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:14 am

What kind of equipment will be used on the VS flights?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
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Richard28
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RE: VS To MBJ - Effect On Air Jamaica

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:23 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 14):
What kind of equipment will be used on the VS flights?

Boeing 747-400 in the Gatwick configuration (14J)

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