N808NW
Topic Author
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NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:41 am

As you may of heard N855NW hit another aircraft at PDX a couple of weeks ago, so it seems mechanics repaired it without placing a new winglet on.

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When will it get a new winglet? I'm guessing not any time soon with the current situation their in, but who knows.


-Jason  swirl 
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jdwfloyd
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:43 am

I doubt it will be doing many revenue flts with out it, so as soon as the new mx guys can glue one on it will be fixed.
 
Btriple7
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:47 am

This remark under the picture says that the plane is missing a winglet only on the left wing. Wouldn't this affect the pilots control of the aircraft? It seems there would be a lot of air disturbance on the left side and not on the right.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
gigneil
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:53 am

Pretty much all aircraft are dispatchable while missing a winglet.

N
 
LAXintl
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:53 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 2):
This remark under the picture says that the plane is missing a winglet only on the left wing. Wouldn't this affect the pilots control of the aircraft? It seems there would be a lot of air disturbance on the left side and not on the right.

I doubt a pilot would ever even notice it. There however is a slight fuel burn performance penalty fror the missing winglet.
If you check out the database you'll find several photos of wiglets missing on A320s, B744s etc...
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HPRamper
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:57 am

The other day I flew on an HP A320 that was missing half a winglet. Thought it strange but it was simply taped over so obviously it isn't a big deal. Of course it will be fixed in time.
 
Carpethead
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:38 pm

All seven A332 are needed to fly those Asian routes until a couple more are delivered this fall. N855NW will probably fly this way until NW can scrounge up a 742 or two out of MHV (to cover for the GUM mishap) or an additional DC-10.
 
redtailmsp
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:59 pm

Performance penalty wise, there is a one percent increase in the fuel burn with one winglet missing. There is also a take-off weight penalty which is, I think, about 11000lbs off the structural weight of the aircraft. This does not cause any real problems for NWA out of SEA/PDX/SFO or anywhere in the Orient where it can take off at NWA's certified max take-off weight of 513700 lbs under most conditions. The offending winglet is being replaced temporarily by one sourced from Airbus that should be fitted soon. The winglet will be repaired and returned to service in good time - the winglets are composite material. A pilot who flew this aircraft said that the aircraft flew normally with perhaps a one degree left wing down.
 
baw716
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:04 pm

Winglets increase performance. Absent that, you just lose some.
Ergo, weight or fuel penalty, plus some trim performance. Depending on the aircraft, it could be a little, or a lot. The A330 is pretty flexible in this respect.
An aircraft like, say, the MD11, is not. Lose a winglet on the MD11 and its grounded.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
brightcedars
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:29 pm

Reminds me of an A300... Strange sight.
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globetrekker
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:36 pm

An airplane missing a winglet is not that uncommon...........


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Rotate
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:15 pm


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this doesnt affect the plane at all ....

Robin
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rootsair
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 6:19 pm

incredible no one has mentioned how less sexy the A330 looks w/o its winglet. There it looks like a 767

Really the A330 without winglets is like a woman without make up that has just woken up early in the morning
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
flpuck6
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:59 pm

An AF A340 (LZT) has also come into our airport without one winglet ... it had a run-in with a DL 777 at CVG (rather the DL777 pushed back into the AF A340). The aircraft flew without one winglet for a day or two. The only penalisation was in the fuel burn.
Bonjour Chef!
 
as739x
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:46 pm

RootsAir..your 100% correct. Its looks very blaa! Looks like an A300 thought to me.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Morvious
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 8):
An aircraft like, say, the MD11, is not. Lose a winglet on the MD11 and its grounded.

Isn't that because the nav and strobe lights are mounted on the winglet? So it needs the winglet to have lights on it!?
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
SafetyDude
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
(to cover for the GUM mishap)

What was the GUM mishap?

-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
aviatortj
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:15 am

I think the plane looks better without it.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
as soon as the new mx guys can glue one on it will be fixed.

So maybe they'll glue the other one for good measure, and neither will hold.  Wink
 
acidradio
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:47 am

When did NW buy the A300? I know they are into old birds, but this?
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
AirRuss
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:16 am

Quoting SafetyDude (Reply 16):
What was the GUM mishap?

Nose gear collapse on 8/19.

See: Northwest 747 Nosegear Collapse At GUM (by A340Spotter Aug 19 2005 in Civil Aviation)
 
cloudyapple
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:27 am

BTW A319/A320/A321s have wingfences. They aren't called winglets. And the A380s.

And the A320-100s have no wingfences at all.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
Geo772
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:17 am

Not having a winglet fitted is usually very unpopular with passengers. They have come to expect that one wing should look the same as the other.

Also the performance penalty that some aircraft take is quite severe for missing a winglet. Not just fuel burn but MTOW and enroute climb penalties can mean the difference between the aircraft making money and not.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
N1120A
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
All seven A332 are needed to fly those Asian routes until a couple more are delivered this fall. N855NW will probably fly this way until NW can scrounge up a 742 or two out of MHV (to cover for the GUM mishap) or an additional DC-10.

I doubt that would happen. It doesn't take all that much time to replace a winglet and NW is not going to go through the process of reactivating a sitting aircraft when it will still be a less efficient way to go

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
incredible no one has mentioned how less sexy the A330 looks w/o its winglet.

Actually, while I love winglets and their look, I think the wing looks very sharp sans winglet
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CalAir
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:11 am

Hehe. Wow, a NW A300B4!! Looks very good I think!
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
jetmatt777
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:32 am

i havent heard of a 747 without winglets before
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m404
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:33 am

How did this accident happen? Was it during pushback? In other words was it caused by inexperienced ground crews driving the tug while replacing the striking mechanics? Many close calls have resulted from these new crews.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
Tornado82
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting M404 (Reply 25):
How did this accident happen? Was it during pushback? In other words was it caused by inexperienced ground crews driving the tug while replacing the striking mechanics? Many close calls have resulted from these new crews.

Well at least we made it to reply #25 before someone negatively mentioned replacement workers and whatnot.  sarcastic 

How close to the "limits" is an A330 crossing the Pacific for the fuel/performance effects of this uniwinglet bird? I wouldn't think too close, but with fuel prices every gallon counts.

NW should just replace that A330 with an Avro for the day of repairs, 4 engines 4 longhaul, right? You wouldn't ever have this kind of problem with the DC9!!  Wink
 
JrMafia90
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RE: NW A332 Without Winglet

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:42 am

It looks like it could be part of the Boeing family now.

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