IL76TD
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UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:21 pm

As of January 1, 2007, no aircraft older than 25 years of age will be allowed to operate to UAE airports.

In addition, regardless of age the following types are banned.

737-200
727-xxx
L1011
707-xxx
A300 only considered on case by case basis.

From the UAE GCAA Annual General Meeting.

[Edited 2005-09-07 14:22:30]
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:44 pm

Well they may as well shut up shop at SHJ.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
JoKeR
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:45 pm

What about the Russian types, IL-18's, An-12's ?

Also, shouldn't the DC-10 be there?
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:42 pm

I don't think that AB6s are concerned as far as the A300 is in the list !!!
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:45 pm

A300F's are operated by FedEx, DHL and MNG to name a few.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:48 pm

What about Iran Air ? , just about every aircraft type they operate will be banned.

I have checked the UAE press and CAA website but I cannot find anything about this announcement.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
mozart
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:23 pm

Interesting... is it because they assume that old aircraft are unsafe or because they think that older aircraft are just noisier?
 
FlySSC
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:26 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 5):
What about Iran Air ? , just about every aircraft type they operate will be banned.

In 2007, "only" the 4 IR's A300B2 will be more than 25 y.o.

The 4 A300-600 and the A310-300 are much "younger".
The A310-200, bought from THY, will be around 22 y.o

This is quite a strange decision to ban an aircraft according to its age ...
The great "age" in years of an aircraft doesn't mean that this a/c is dangerous or risky ...
 
IL76TD
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:23 am

Yea but this is Emirates, generally, things here relating to anything government are done without much thought, even if they try.

It wasn't an announcement, as I said, it was told to us at the GCAA operators meeting, it was not a press conference, it was a closed door meeting, i figured i'd make you all privy to the info as I know alot of people enjoy spotting at SHJ and others for the oldies. You probably won't hear much about it fro a while. I was at the meeting FYI as we are a UAE based operator.

IL-18's and AN-12's are ALL older than 25 years, so they are naturally banned as that part of the clause. The other aircraft may/may not be over 25 years old, they are banned nonetheless.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:22 am

As I said earlier "Goodnight SHJ" .....
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
a300
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:30 am

Well it sounds that it is mainly designed to hurt the Iranians!
Unless they are retiring them soon, Iran Air (IR) has 4 727-200s and Iran Aseman (EP) has another 4. IR's A300-B2Ks were already mentioned. SAHA (IRZ) operates(ed) 707-3J9s into SHJ. I guess there will be a lot of F100 flights (IR and EP)!
Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
 
rossbaku
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:32 am

That's a bit of stupid idea is it not? They really will be throwing away quite a bit of help for the UAE economy if they decide to keep this firm-rooted.

RossBaku
 
JoKeR
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Rossbaku (Reply 11):
That's a bit of stupid idea is it not? They really will be throwing away quite a bit of help for the UAE economy if they decide to keep this firm-rooted.

OR

Eliminate alot of competition for both Emirates and Emirates Sky Cargo?! At present, you have so many cheap cargo options, for example, to get goods out of the UAE, and most of them are shipped out on non-EK flights. This way, many companies will have to concede defeat and guess who wins the game  biggrin 
Kafa, čaj, šraf?
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:25 am

The other airlines will just relocate somewhere else and truck the freight out of the UAE.

Looks like the US Navy will need to move out of BAH, gonna need all that ramp space  Smile
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
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yowza
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 13):
The other airlines will just relocate somewhere else and truck the freight out of the UAE.

Looks like the US Navy will need to move out of BAH, gonna need all that ramp space

I'd love to see that truck ride from the UAE to the ISLAND of Bahrain! Beside they would probably impose some nonsense tarif of cargo trucks after this.

YOWza
 
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lightsaber
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:12 am

Quoting IL76TD (Thread starter):
As of January 1, 2007, no aircraft older than 25 years of age will be allowed to operate to UAE airports.

Whoa! This violates ICAO guidelines and law. Are you sure about this? If so, and 747's, DC-10's etc. are kept out of the UAE, expect *all* UAE flights to be kept out of the USA... For if a country bans aircraft via a manner non-approved by ICAO, other ICAO countries are then free to ignore the ICAO guidelines and band their aircraft at whim.

Now, ICAO guidelines include the noise regulations (with airports allowed to set noise quotas, curfews, etc.), pollution (smoke, CO, NOx with fees and levies allowed on these emissions), aircraft size and weights (e.g., an airport can be limited to class IV or less), navigation, and other sub-rules.

This is like Europe banning low bypass stage 3 aircraft (hushkits). The allowed retaliation legally is pretty broad in scope. In that case the USA backed down, but wasn't required to.

Now, the UAE could legally get rid of the IL-18's, AN-12's and most soviet airframes by requiring State 3 noise regulations. I believe the 707's would be hit by this too.

I doubt this will go through.
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
IL76TD
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:25 pm

They won't ban stage III, as the IL-76 is too vital to their economy.

It does not violate ICAO as it is only absolute for aircraft registered and/or based in UAE as a foreign operator. However, aircraft intending to operate to UAE will be considered on a case by case basis, basically, if the operator has a perfectly clean safety record they will be given a one time landing permit. However you cannot base or operate scheduled service (block permits) with aircraft older than 25 years of age.

"I doubt this will go through."

This isn't proposed, it is already incorporated into UAE Civil Aviation Rules and Regs, so it HAS gone through.

"Now, the UAE could legally get rid of the IL-18's, AN-12's and most soviet airframes by requiring State 3 noise regulations. I believe the 707's would be hit by this too."

Actually, turboprop aircraft under a certain MTOW are exempt, per ICAO, from noise regs, which is why AN-12 and IL-18 can still operate to FRA/OST/etc. without exemption.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:33 pm

Quoting : YOWza

"I'd love to see that truck ride to the ISLAND of Bahrain"

Quite easy really and happens 1000's of times a day across the 26 km King Fahd Causeway which links Bahrain to Saudi Arabia and thus the whole of the Middle East. To facilitate further growth two new causeways are being built linking Bahrain with Qatar and from Saudi Arabia to Egypt.

A well known "yellow" express company now runs trucks to Europe via IST from Bahrain on a daily basis.

As for "tariffs on cargo trucks" , the UAE is a member of the GCC and no tariffs are, or can be, levied.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
rampkontroler
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:38 pm

Obviously this would not include their own governmental 747-SP's...or would it? I'm looking at one now!
 
Alessandro
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:38 pm

Can Oman grab some of the biz?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
jacobin777
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 8):
Yea but this is Emirates, generally, things here relating to anything government are done without much thought, even if they try.

what a brilliant comment that was  butthead ......thats why it has one of the fastest growing cities in the world, and The Emirates Govt. knows DXB oil/gas is running out soon so they decided to make it into a first class tourist city amongst other things such as golf..

so less thought that even Tiger Woods competes in the Dubai Classic....

get out of your hole
"Up the Irons!"
 
IL76TD
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:27 pm

Hey, Jacobin777, I live here in Dubai, where do you live???

1) The government likes you to believe it is the fastest growing city in the world, it isn't even in the top 10, and isn't even the fastest growing in the middle east (Doha, Qatar is #1). Besides, even if a city (Dubai) of 1,000,000 people is fast growing, at the end of the day it is still only 1,000,000 people, which is nothing.

2) This is not a first class tourist destination by any means. Possibly in 15-25 years, but at this point it is one big dusty constrution site with horrible, HORRIBLE, urban planning (roads, traffic, utilites).

3) You may say, there is all this construction someobody is interested in the place...there is is difference between market construction and desperation construction. The government is the owner of and developer of 90% of the 'projects' in dubai. Is there any demand for 200,000 new apartments in the next 2 years, nope (supply/demand equality is estimated to take 15-20 years due to oversupply of the market). Basically the dubai property market is a big scam (could go into it further but it takes a while) propogated by the government to pad their pockets.

As you clearly don't live here, you don't get a first hand experience of how backwards the government is here.

You need to get your head out of your ass and learn a little before mouthing off. The emirates government doesn't give a crap what happens to dubai, as Abu Dhabi (Ruling Emirate) and Sharjah have plenty of oil/gas for the near and far future, and each emirate operates as its own entity.

Mark my words, dubai in 10-20 years will be a ghost town, not some massive metropolis in the middle east...
 
EurostarVA
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:59 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 17):
To facilitate further growth two new causeways are being built linking Bahrain with Qatar and from Saudi Arabia to Egypt

Causeway being built between Egypt and Saudi Arabia  Wow! I must have missed its announcement ! Would be nice to drive for hours over a bridge....lol.

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 21):
Mark my words, dubai in 10-20 years will be a ghost town, not some massive metropolis in the middle east...

Quite a grim and negative outlook. Well, Dubai 30 years ago was....nothing. Now it's a high-tech, forward-thinking and booming city (in world standards) that was only in the rulers' dreams 30 years ago. Perhaps the real estate market will cool for a lot of reasons in a few years, but the overall picture you painted is exaggerated pessimism.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
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scbriml
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:02 pm

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 21):
isn't even the fastest growing in the middle east (Doha, Qatar is #1).

I've spent quite a bit of time in both Dubai and Doha, and I know which one I'd rather spend more time in. Clue, it isn't Doha.

Quoting IL76TD (Reply 16):
It does not violate ICAO as it is only absolute for aircraft registered and/or based in UAE as a foreign operator.

OK, that's more reasonable. So, are you talking about an operator like Phoenix? Do they still have any IL-18s, or are they all 737/767 now? I haven't been to SHJ for over a year.

I'll be visiting in November for the Dubai air show, and intend to get a couple of days at SHJ. How is the building work going? Is the fire station still in the same place?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
HiJazzey
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:51 pm

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 22):
Causeway being built between Egypt and Saudi Arabia Wow! I must have missed its announcement ! Would be nice to drive for hours over a bridge....lol.

The proposed bridge is over the straights of Tiran, so it would be shorter than the King Fahad Causeway if built. But it never will be, despite the efforts of the Egyptian government, because the Saudi government isn't willing to put up the huge capital costs.
 
CV580Freak
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:45 pm

I thought it was a Saudi idea to promote tourism and pilgrimages ?
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
HiJazzey
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:39 pm

Nope. The main beneficiary is Egypt. The bridge would provide road access to Sharm ash Sheikh for travelers from the Arabian peninsula and Levant.
 
IL76TD
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 23):

Yes, the firestation is in the same spot and I don't know of any plans to move it, unless that is part of the new terminal plans.

The construction seems to be going along at the typical arabic pace, extremely slow (even for sharjah). They have made a pretty decent traffic nightmare both civilian side and airside, closing the service road which ran straight through the cargo and passenger terminal area.
 
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Fly-K
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RE: UAE - End Of The Oldies!

Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:48 pm

SHJ's website says the ramp permit scheme is suspended until further notice due to airport expansion. Can we expect it to return at all? It would be such a shame, I was looking forward to next winter! Sitting under the approach can be a bit boring in SHJ...
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...