gkirk
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BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:38 pm

According to a thread on Pprune
Apparently BMI will replace one of the A330s at MAN with a leased 767. The A330 will move down to LHR...
Seems that BMI are now doing a BA and shall soon be renamed LMI (London Midand International)  Yeah sure
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
oly720man
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:40 pm

Perhaps they'll get the BA one (G-BNWH) when the lease runs out.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:43 pm

I would suspect it'll probably be an Icelandair example.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Airplanepics
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
I would suspect it'll probably be an Icelandair example.

Yay! Another half painted Iclenadair Hybrid!
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:49 pm

And yet another costly fleet type added  Wink
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
JRadier
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:15 pm

Aren't the 757 and 767 in this case from Icelandair (or wichever icelandic company) AMCI-leases? (Aircraft, Maintenance, Crew, Insurance) and thus the carrier only has to provide the pax+cargo. Thus they pay a bit more for the lease, but they don't add another fleet type.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:07 pm

Blimey tha's a surprise.

The surprise being they're actually replacing the A330s rather than just moving them and abandoning the long haul out of MAN  Wink

Unless they do a repeat of their IAD fiasco, where they do this until pulling the route althogether.

I take it the 767 will lose the premium economy product too......
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
jacobin777
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:17 pm

BD seems to be doing rather well on their MAN-ORD route, even though they have some competition with AA, BA, and PK(which is only 2x/weekly and will be going down to 1x/weekly during the winter period)..no reason for them to pull it off..as they have Star Alliance Partner UA there for all other onward connections!
"Up the Irons!"
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:22 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
no reason for them to pull it off..as they have Star Alliance Partner UA there for all other onward connections!

You're right. There is no GOOD reason for them to pull off the route. But as any UK A.netter wil ltell you , this is BMI we're talking about here. Good logic doesn't seem to come into many of their decisions of late  Wink

You also have to understand their mentality of building a long haul network out of LHR at ALL costs.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Yak97
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:34 pm

This wouldn't be the Flyjet aircraft by any chance????
 
ZKOJH
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:35 pm

Are BD going thru all plane's from both A and B!!??!!

Why not just stick too one sorce, not is if they have the money to keep switching between aircraft types, Im all up for them moving the last A330 down to London , which will let the go daily to India, tho they need to keep a min of 2 aircraft at MAN, to keep the longhaul going from MAN,
however was BD not ment to be getting another A330 from EK?? what ever happened to that,
Why don't they just go for a couple of T7's now that might look good at MAN. the thing about BD is there trying to fly the world, and don't have the aircraft to do it with!!
Vietnam time..
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:38 pm

BD need to get their act together, and soon.

I'm now switching my USA long hauls back to UA at LHR, at least I know what im getting with them  Smile



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
mhodgson
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:34 pm

Why do they need another A330 at LHR? How many more routes do they have?

They never cease to amaze me. At first it seemed like a mistake, all these misguided strategies. Now it's almost as though it's part of their business plan!
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:39 pm

London - Centre of the Universe  Yeah sure
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:49 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Thread starter):
Apparently BMI will replace one of the A330s at MAN with a leased 767

And simultaneously BMI will lose its important Premium traffic loyal customer base at MAN. If this is a prelude to BMI leaving MAN, then to be honest, good riddance to them.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
Good logic doesn't seem to come into many of their decisions of late

Replace the word 'many' with 'any'

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
Concorde001
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:32 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 12):
Why do they need another A330 at LHR? How many more routes do they have?

Read the "New ASA between UK and India greed -even More Flights" and you will see that BD is getting ready for flights to BOM and India! Well that is my analysis - the new agreement triples the amount of flights and BD wants to take advantage. Unfortunately, I think BD will probably pull out of MAN by next year as Inidan and British Ministers have suggested that an agreement next year will double the current agreement on flights! A real shame as I think MAN has potential!
 
purplebox
Posts: 187
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:57 am

Why can't BMI increase their fleet with more 332's and keep the business at MAN while still trying to establish non US routes at LHR?

I've used the IAD/ORD flights from MAN many times and there a cut above the others - they are successful so why not use this success as a building block for expansion?

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:44 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 16):
they are successful so why not use this success as a building block for expansion?

Because BMI simply dont understand basic business practise, or customer loyalty

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
egmcman
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 13):
London - Centre of the Universe

It's BMI's decision at the of day even though they have made some strange decisions lately their Headquarters is in Castle Donnington. You forget London is the main centre of business in the UK.

Quoting Yak97 (Reply 9):
This wouldn't be the Flyjet aircraft by any chance????

Hi welcome to the discussion. In answer your question no as they only operate 757's.

cheers
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:05 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 16):
Why can't BMI increase their fleet with more 332's and keep the business at MAN while still trying to establish non US routes at LHR?

Because it would cost them money!
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
CalAir
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:26 pm

Actually EGMCman FJE have a former government a/c on order coming soon. A 767-200ER. All I can say is I hope they dont lease it from them, FJE aren't renouned for looking after their planes.
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
egmcman
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:01 pm

Quoting CalAir (Reply 20):
Actually EGMCman FJE have a former government a/c on order coming soon. A 767-200ER. All I can say is I hope they dont lease it from them, FJE aren't renowned for looking after their planes.

Thanks for that info, who does their aircraft engineering?

cheers
 
col
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:17 pm

Another nail in the coffin of BMI at MAN. So we are down to CO and the 762, and US with the 333. The rest of the offerings for keeping you occupied is poor. Can BMI sink any lower into the stupidity barrel, my guess is - Oh yes!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting Col (Reply 22):
Can BMI sink any lower into the stupidity barrel, my guess is - Oh yes!

its a shame though isn't it. BMI no longer surprise us. Hopefully VS will expand their services (as rumoured) at MAN, so that the North West retains and develops more Long Haul traffic.

7LBAC111
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
purplebox
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:29 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 19):
Because it would cost them money!

Without spending some money and being bold they won't ever get out of the current downward spiral.

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
planesarecool
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 18):
It's BMI's decision at the of day even though they have made some strange decisions lately their Headquarters is in Castle Donnington. You forget London is the main centre of business in the UK.

Agreed 100%. London is the capital, so it only makes sense to move aircraft there if there is demand there. And with additional Mumbai flights and the new Riyadh flights, there is obviously demand.

How is this non-sensical at all? London-India is a hot route at the moment, and BMI obviously think that demand is there to expand (if that's even what they're doing, as there's nothing in their timetable). Plus now that British Airways dropped their Saudi routes, there was potential for Bmi to start Riyadh flights, as without their 3 weekly services, there would have just been 3 SV flights linking the two.

On another note, weren't BMI supposed to be getting an ex-Emirates A330 this year? So why would they need a B767 as well?
 
jacobin777
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 16):

I've used the IAD/ORD flights from MAN many times and there a cut above the others - they are successful so why not use this success as a building block for expansion?



Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):

You're right. There is no GOOD reason for them to pull off the route. But as any UK A.netter wil ltell you , this is BMI we're talking about here. Good logic doesn't seem to come into many of their decisions of late  Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
dutchjet
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:25 am

BMI continues to be full of surprises - anything is possible.

On a serious note, for some "niche" longhaul routes, the A332 is too much aircraft and airplanes like the 757/767 make more sense. Thus, maybe BMI is looking at the 767 to fly some lower demand longhaul routes, say out of MAN, but who knows after the 757 fiasco this summer? The 757 on the IAD-MAN should have worked, and it would have if the aircraft was properly configured and BMI was committed to the route......CO has been extremely successful with using the 757 on lower demand transatlantic so why couldnt BMI?
 
gilesdavies
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:36 am

STOP PRESS!

BMI have decided to transfer their whole A330 fleet to LTN and will be operating their US flights from there as a way to over come the Bemuda II agreement with flights operating out of LHR.

This is to compliment their new LTN-BRU flights!  rotfl 
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:20 am

No offence to Indians, but how is London-India High yield? One would think it would mostly be people imiigrating/emmigrating between UK/India i.e. cheap fares
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:37 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 29):
No offence to Indians, but how is London-India High yield? One would think it would mostly be people imiigrating/emmigrating between UK/India i.e. cheap fares

Whilst there is a fair amount of discounted economy VFR traffic on LON-BOM/DEL/MAA, Club and FIRST do very well and often have high volumes of full fare pax.
 
Concorde001
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 29):
No offence to Indians, but how is London-India High yield? One would think it would mostly be people imiigrating/emmigrating between UK/India i.e. cheap fares

London - India is very high yield. It was always the case pre 2000 when only AI and BA were only allowed to fly between the two cities direct - massive demand and low supply = high fares.
But even know, India is still pretty high yield. Not everyone flying from LON to India is immigrating/emmigrating - there are 2-3 million people from the Indian subcontinent living in Britain! Also, if you look at the BBC website and read the recent article about UK population, you will see that Indians are the most successful and the most wealthiest ethnic minority in Britain.

Here are just some facts:
- *British Asians make up just four per cent of the population but contribute 103 billion pounds or ten per cent of the country's economic output.
*Source - Economic Times
- the most successful ethnic minority in Britain*
*Source BBC News
 
David_itl
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 25):
Agreed 100%. London is the capital, so it only makes sense to move aircraft there if there is demand there

Why aren't you demanding that ALL regional routes are pulled from all airlines as there will ALWAYS be bigger demand from London?

BD is going to be a very, very poor 3rd at LHR - concentrating efforts at MAN would be a lot better given that most long-haul competition from MAN operates just single daily (or less) plus now that BA is doing a tactical withdrawal, BD have a chance to build up a bigger network of services which, combined with existing Star Alliance services, should be able to produce some feed for long-haul routes.

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 25):
the new Riyadh flights, there is obviously demand



Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 25):
Plus now that British Airways dropped their Saudi routes,

So what is it please? Is there demand there or not as I don't beleive BA would give up a LHR long-haul service if it wasn't making money. BD is going to lose money trying to build up this service and will probably be a couple of years at the minimum before generating a return on the route.

David
 
planesarecool
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
So what is it please? Is there demand there or not as I don't beleive BA would give up a LHR long-haul service if it wasn't making money. BD is going to lose money trying to build up this service and will probably be a couple of years at the minimum before generating a return on the route.

British Airways operated 4 weekly flights to Riyadh and 4 to Jeddah. They couldn't FILL planes, so that factor as well as the heightened security concerns (due to some shooting in Saudi Arabia) led them to drop it all together. BMI are operating 3 weekly flights, 5 less than BA.

Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
Why aren't you demanding that ALL regional routes are pulled from all airlines as there will ALWAYS be bigger demand from London?

Eh? Did i say that? I said that if the A330 is needed at Heathrow, which is BMI's main base, then they are likely to move it there. I'm talking about an A330 being replaced by a B767, not all regional routes being stopped?

Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
BD is going to lose money trying to build up this service and will probably be a couple of years at the minimum before generating a return on the route

And you know best, don't you? Running an airline isn't like a toy, you can't just change it when and how you feel. BMI would have thought this through thoroughly and if they really believed that this route was going to be a complete failure, i'm sure they would have never started it.

And has anybody any confirmed info about what this B767 is going to be operating? If not, then stop digging at BMI until you do.

Again, as a side note, does anybody know about this 4th A330 they're supposedly getting from Emirates?
 
Demoose
Posts: 1891
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 33):
BMI would have thought this through thoroughly and if they really believed that this route was going to be a complete failure, i'm sure they would have never started it.

This is bmi we are talking about, their track record would suggest otherwise.
Take a ride...fly across the sky
 
flybmi330
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 33):
And has anybody any confirmed info about what this B767 is going to be operating? If not, then stop digging at BMI until you do.

Again, as a side note, does anybody know about this 4th A330 they're supposedly getting from Emirates?

I was at the meeting on thursday morning in Manchester. Nigel Turner confirmed there are NO more 330s on order, and if bmi did order one, the earliest delivery date is spring 2007.

When asked why bmi have not ordered any more 330s he suggested we can't afford them, hence the leased 767.

767 to be based in MAN, operating LAS and BGI.

330 to operate ORD, because ' we don't want to ruin that route' (his exact words!!!)

So, guess they don't care about ruining the LAS/BGI routes then?

The feeling in MAN is that by 2007 bmi will have only one l/haul route ex-MAN, and that will be ORD.
 
planesarecool
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:05 am

I guess thats because ORD is a business route, and there are many codeshare flights to get there via Heathrow. AA have their code on almost all BA flights to Manchester from Heathrow and UA, with BMI. So if the biz pax aren't happy then they have plenty of alternatives. Also their loyal passengers may start to use the AA flight instead.

Barbados and Las Vegas are predominantly leisure routes. There is no competion on these routes, except charter airlines, so they have nothing really to lose or gain.
 
aamd11
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 1):
Perhaps they'll get the BA one (G-BNWH) when the lease runs out.

I'm sure BA's 763s are all owned, not leased.
 
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Richard28
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting Flybmi330 (Reply 35):
330 to operate ORD, because ' we don't want to ruin that route' (his exact words!!!)

So, guess they don't care about ruining the LAS/BGI routes then?

ooo!

that does suggest that management see the non A330 longhaul flights as inferior (just like the BD pax apparently!)
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:09 am

Planesarecool:
EDI-EWR
GLA-EWR
GLA-ORD
GLA-PHL
MAN-ORD
MAN-etc

Every non London route should be pulled?

Guess what, everyone outside of London hates using LHR and LGW, something which CO and now AA are using to their advantage
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
planesarecool
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:24 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 39):
Planesarecool:
EDI-EWR
GLA-EWR
GLA-ORD
GLA-PHL
MAN-ORD
MAN-etc

Every non London route should be pulled?

Guess what, everyone outside of London hates using LHR and LGW, something which CO and now AA are using to their advantage

What the hell are you talking about? Try reading what i said again, nothing to do with non London routes being pulled. I say that maybe it isn't a "bad idea" that the A330 is being sent down to London in replacement of a B767 and you're assuming that i think all non-London routes should be stopped?

All i said is that maybe if there are extra flights to Mumbai from Heathrow then it would be better for an A330 to operate them and put a B767 on the leisure routes. I haven't even mentioned Edinburgh, Glasgow, American Airlines or Continental or any routes being "pulled"

[Edited 2005-09-11 01:33:37]
 
A340600
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:44 am

Another loopy jump further into madness for BMI then.

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 1):
Perhaps they'll get the BA one (G-BNWH) when the lease runs out.

All of BA's 767's are fully-owned

Quoting Flybmi330 (Reply 35):
767 to be based in MAN, operating LAS and BGI.

330 to operate ORD, because ' we don't want to ruin that route' (his exact words!!!)

So, guess they don't care about ruining the LAS/BGI routes then?

The feeling in MAN is that by 2007 bmi will have only one l/haul route ex-MAN, and that will be ORD

What?! BMI actually say, 'we don't want to ruin that route' as in they admit they're ruining some. This airline is getting madder by the week. They'll steal G-BOAC and operate it MAN-IOM at this rate!

Sam
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
dutchjet
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:58 am

It is so odd that many (including some of BMI's managment) blame the failure of the MAN-IAD route on the downgrade from the A332 to the 757 - it simply does not make any sense....airlines change equipment on routes all of the time, if the A332 was too big for the MAN-IAD route, then the 757 should have worked out just fine. Pax are looking for transportation between two cities, not a ride on a specific aircraft type.

That being said, if BMI was serious about the MAN-IAD route and wanted to make a success of the route with 757 service, they should have made sure that the product offered on the 757 was equivalent to the product offered on the A332. It can be done....just look at CO, their BusinessFirst product on the 757 is the same as that offered on the 767/777 fleet.

My opinion is that, from the beginning, BMI was never serious about MAN - BMI has always wanted to operate longhaul out of LHR and could not start LHR-US operations due to Bermuda 2 and went to MAN as a second choice. The madness at BMI continues.......its such a shame, British Midland was such a good airline and becoming a real success story until they totally lost focus.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:19 am

Such a shame. BMI could've been such an asset to MAN. What with BA withdrawing services there as well, is there something we don't know? It makes little sense to me. I thought the fashion was point to point?

I can understand the desire to be a "major" at LHR, but surely increasing ops at an already maxed-out hub like LHR is madness. The competition's so stiff there. Think of LHR as an elite hub. Why try an muscle in there with what will most likely be an inferior product with a higher cost base due to new long-haul operations? You've always got to find a niche. In this case, MAN is IDEAL! BMI WHAT ARE YOU DOING????
 
HiJazzey
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:36 am

LHR-RUH is a promising route for BMI. The yield is high, as it is a business destination, and there's LOTS of demand. For example, a friend of mine, who's going on a business trip to Jeddah, struggled to find a seat. In the end, he's flying bmi to Riyadh tomorrow and connecting from there to Jeddah.
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:08 pm

Just a rumour, but bmi may be looking at JED, I heard from a source....
 
tartan
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:08 am

RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:09 pm

Quoting Flybmi330 (Reply 35):
767 to be based in MAN, operating LAS and BGI.

Does anyone know when this will happen?
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: BMI To Get A Leased 767?

Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:26 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 43):
What with BA withdrawing services there as well

anyone know which routes BA is pulling off from MAN?

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 43):
MAN is IDEAL! BMI WHAT ARE YOU DOING????

I know...BD could have made MAN into their fortress and offered MANY routes off of there..like a previous poster said, many Brits detest going out of LHR/LGW and with the good amount of O&D pax out of the MAN/LBA/BHX region, BD could have done very well...
"Up the Irons!"

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