toering
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:42 am

Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:37 pm

With newer airplanes coming out and using better technology, is the Flight Engineer's profession becoming a job of the past? It's my understanding that Fed Ex had MDC update all of their DC-10 cockpits (back in the 80s) to a "modern Flight Deck" if you will, to eliminate the Flight Engineer, Are other airlines following suit? What Engineer jobs will be out there in say...... 20 or even 10 years?
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:40 pm

Yes. Eventually all the three pilot aircraft will be replaced by two pilot aircraft.
Proud OOTSK member
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 2452
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:49 pm

Yes, the PFE is a dying breed. Many pilots are still getting the FE ground school though. It is a good training tool. It gets you familar with heavy jet systems and how to learn for a type rating.
 
padcrasher
Posts: 1815
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:17 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:50 pm

What's a flight engineer?... Smile
 
UPS Pilot
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:17 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:52 pm

Yes they are. Alot of guys over manditory retirement age go to the FE position as well. Why pay for 3 when you can now do the same with 2.
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:10 am

Yes - you can blame it on technology!  Smile
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:15 am

Quoting Padcrasher (Reply 3):
What's a flight engineer?...

It's the guy who has to get out on the wing to fix the engine, if there is an in-flight shutdown.  Wink

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
trident3
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:10 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:16 am

But technology is not as good at fixing the coffee machine or doing the Times crossword!
"We are the warrior race-Tough men in the toughest sport." Brian Noble, Head Coach, Great Britain Rugby League.
 
User avatar
Btriple7
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:58 am

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting Toering (Thread starter):
Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

It already is dead.

I can't think of any major airlines that are hiring flight engineers.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
RogerThat
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:13 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:50 am

You can thank the pilots union for killing off the FE profession. Their insistence on using pilots in the FE's seat put the nails in the coffin long before technology ever did.

2 or 3 years ago, the last 2 striper retired from AA. Last time I remember seeing one was in the early '90s on a AA DC10-30. He was flying from DFW to HNL then onto SYD.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6460
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:21 am

You think the FE is a dying breed? How about another sideways flyer?


Navigator! Last flew as one in 2003 ! LOL Still needed... though not for mainline operations!

F/Es are still needed though in much smaller numbers... there are still 727s, L1011s, DC10s, 742/3s and numerous other FE required planes till flying, though in dwindling numbers... Some companies are struggling to get F/Es due to a lot of them with adequate experience are reaching their mandatory retirement age...

Who would have thought that "many" Navigators are still around...  Smile

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
RogerThat
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:13 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:32 am

Navigators flying in the 21st century? Who'd have thunk it.

What next? Wireless operators? Morse code?
 
afay1
Posts: 1206
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 2:37 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:04 pm

Several Antonov and Ilyushin aircraft, operated by major airlines, are coming off the line with FE positions...
 
mandala499
Posts: 6460
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Is The Flight Engineer A Dying Profession?

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:07 pm

RogerThat... LOL
I knew that would raise some eyebrows  Smile

The Navigator in this case would operate the master control of an automatic survey camera system, linked to an INS and DGPS with WAAS... Necessary for maintaining flight lines accurate to 25 - 50m at 7000ft and 110KIAS... The faster the easier actually, but the camera won't keep up LOL.

Navigator's function in this case is also the Mission Commander... where as long as we're not on the ground or in the take-off and approach phases, the captain can only intervene in weather and fuel aspects. (we annoyed a few capts that way... but some F/Os use us as paybacks to their Capts.)

Ever talked down your own plane using the onboard DGPS and INS below approach weather minimas? U'd loose your voice by the end of the approach and the ATC was impressed but scared to bits... I don't fancy doing that regularly again... even for Demos...

What next? Well, no plans for morse codes but we can carry a wireless (HF radio) operator sometimes...

Our AF C130s still carry navigators (map, pencil, a couple of stopwatches and a strong throat)... Needed for low level "blind flying"... Now they're a different breed altogether!

Cheers,

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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