Pe@rson
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London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:03 am

When Croatia becomes a member of the EU, which destinations, if any, do you foresee being operated by a low-cost airline from London? There is, I believe, a great deal of potential in this market. So, I could expect a daily service to Zagreb and Dubrovnik and possibly Split (although a five-times-weekly service might be more realistic, at least initially), and lower frequencies to Pula, Zadar and Rijeka, perhaps thrice-weekly, twice-weekly and twice-weekly respectively (could these three sustain higher frequencies from the outset?). I expect, in time, that all these places would receive additional frequencies. UK-Croatia is, I am sure, a big growth market, so it is important to get a foothold as soon as possible. Any opinions?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:07 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
UK-Croatia is, I am sure, a big growth market, so it is important to get a foothold as soon as possible. Any opinions?

True enough, but Croatia- Germany will be a much bigger and faster growing LCC market.

One thing to bear in mind though is that Croatia is likely to increasingly become high end tourism-wise. Property on the coast is becoming very fashionable to buy, and its not a case of your cheap Spain or Cyprus apartments being bought up by any body. Its the rich and famous who are buying there - this may have an impact on the toursim and therefore airline traffic to and from the country.

But Zagreb should not expect to see more service from UK LCCs than say Ljubljana for example. The coast could be a different story of course
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Pe@rson
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:14 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
True enough, but Croatia- Germany will be a much bigger and faster growing LCC market.

Indeed. But still.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
But Zagreb should not expect to see more service from UK LCCs than say Ljubljana for example.

Hmm. I'm sure there would easily be sufficient demand for a 737/319-sized machine on the LON-ZAG route daily.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:22 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
Hmm. I'm sure there would easily be sufficient demand for a 737/319-sized machine on the LON-ZAG route daily.

Oh yeah. But remember, for Croatia, it s the coast thats the big draw for tourists so better to fly to Split or Dubrovnik. And Ljubljana undeniably has more to offer a weekend break visitor than Zagreb - plus Ljubljana serves more of a much smaller country - also the ski resorts in winter too. all I'm saying is look to LJU for a guide as to the max that ZAG would get.

As for the other direction, there are a lot less Croats in the UK than Poles for example, so the VFR traffic would be far lower than the obvious LCC potential we are seeing with Poland now.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Pe@rson
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:27 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
But remember, for Croatia, it s the coast thats the big draw for tourists so better to fly to Split or Dubrovnik. And Ljubljana undeniably has more to offer a weekend break visitor than Zagreb

Yes, but ZAG is still a nice capital city for exploration.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
As for the other direction, there are a lot less Croats in the UK than Poles for example

Nevertheless, I am sure a daily service would be OK.

Regarding Ljubljana, I am surprised that a second-daily service from LON with U2 has not yet began. I am sure it will in the next couple of years.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
jamesontheroad
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:28 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Thread starter):
When Croatia becomes a member of the EU, which destinations, if any, do you foresee being operated by a low-cost airline from London?

Well, Easyjet and Ryanair are the most likely miscreants. FlyBe have been making noises about expanding with routes to the sun with the new Embraers, but I don't expect them to be as likely from London as the big boys (although possibly from their regional bases).

*j*
 
Pe@rson
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting Jamesontheroad (Reply 5):
Well, Easyjet and Ryanair are the most likely miscreants. FlyBe

Yes, that goes without saying.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ssides
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:30 am

Remember, Croatia's joining the EU is still probably at least 5 years away.
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cornish
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Regarding Ljubljana, I am surprised that a second-daily service from LON with U2 has not yet began. I am sure it will in the next couple of years.

Me too - but then I guess such a beautiful country has yet to be discovered by most Brits. Also Ljubljana hardly trips off the tongue, and most Brits wouldn't know which country it is in, like Zagreb. There is still too much potential growth in Prague, Budapest and Krakow. Once that has been exhausted by E.Euro destined Brits then maybe these places and Talinn will see more growth flight wise.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 4):
Yes, but ZAG is still a nice capital city for exploration.

But like LJU - most people don't know that - yet. Unlike PRG or BUD.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
cornish
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:38 am

Should also add that when Croatia joins the EU, expect U2's initial services to be to Zagreb from Berlin, Dortmund, and any other German (or any other Swiss, Austrian or Italian bases they may have by then) etc, etc with maybe one service from Luton or Gatwick.
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Pe@rson
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
But like LJU - most people don't know that - yet.

Precisely. So time it right and you'd get your foot nicely in the door.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
Unlike PRG or BUD.

From an airline and other business POV, it's obviously good, but it's certainly a shame that they are, in the season, so busy.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
cornish
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:42 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 10):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 8):
Unlike PRG or BUD.

From an airline and other business POV, it's obviously good, but it's certainly a shame that they are, in the season, so busy.

Tell me about it - PRG is just too small to handle all its summer tourists - must be a nightmare fo rthe residents. BUD fares much better however as its a much bigger city and has less tourists so is able to absorb them easier and they become less noticeable.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
OO-VEG
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:57 am

Germanwings is already agressively flying on Croatia.
ZAG to CGN/ HAM/STR/SXF
Split to CGN/STR/SXF
Dubrovnik to CGN

I flew them out of ZAG early july, and they had a good load factor. Germanwings is making a jumpstart to cover the German market before other carriers are able to.
 
greenjet
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
As for the other direction, there are a lot less Croats in the UK than Poles for example, so the VFR traffic would be far lower than the obvious LCC potential we are seeing with Poland now.

Yes, but if Croatia joins the EU then the number of Croats living in the UK will increase hugely.

Bulgaria's EU membership should also open lots of routes for LCCs - particularly to Black Sea resorts like Varna.
 
JoFMO
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:00 am

So far Bulgary is a problem for locos. The touristic infrastructure is not as good as in Spain for example. Therefore people still prefer to fly to Bulgary with full charter airlines. They prefer not to look for accomodation by themself.

Bulgaria has to turn itself more into a destination for individual holidays. For the touristic masses Bulgaria is still to 'exotic'.
 
Dougloid
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:56 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
True enough, but Croatia- Germany will be a much bigger and faster growing LCC market.

Birds of a feather no doubt....
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
flycro
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RE: London-Croatia When Croatia Enters EU

Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:36 pm

Germanwings will always have a good headstart in the LCC market as Croats do not need a visa for Germany, whereas they do for the UK. The need for a visa at present limits the flow of traffic, so a scheduled service from the UK acts very much like a charter as it's mainly for Brits with little Croat flow.

Can airports such as Zadar and Pula sustain a year round service to the UK by the LCC?