georgiabill
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 11:53 pm

Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:35 am

I have read several articles over the years about tenders to privatized Olympic. I remember when a British consulting group was brought into manage the company, ultimately left after being unable to get concessions from the unions, creditors ect. Wrong fleet, I think the A332's would better serve Olympic than the under utilized A340's, next generation 737's or A320 family aircraft for European routes and rj's for domestic service. In order to compete the bloated work force must be cut, improved cabin service and take advantage of the new airport to better serve the Balkans. On a side note I have flown on Olympic, service was adequate, flight was within 15 min of schedule and the fa was pleasant. I think at this point the only was Olympic survives is with a merger with another carrier like the Air France-KLM. Had LH not invested in Swiss I would have thought that might have been a good possibility.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:42 am

I really hope they can survive, I love there color scheme (and seeing my parents are from Greece). Just asking but why is there an extra olympic ring on there color scheme? Are they not allowed to use only the 5 Olympic Rings?
~Brandon
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:48 am

I have read that OA might liquidate by November if things don't change drastically. Lets hope they survive somehow.

Maybe they should merge with Alitalia. no, just joking
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
ATLFlyer323
Posts: 489
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:52 am

Quoting DeltaWings:
Maybe they should merge with Alitalia. no, just joking


Lol....good one.  rotfl 
~Brandon
Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
 
egmcman
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:06 am

If British Airways couldn't fix OA's problems in 1999 then sadly I think writing is on wall as it last made a profit in 1971 according to the book No Frills by Simon Calder.

cheers

egmcman
 
Avianca
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:15 am

well I didn´t see a big future for Olympic.... They should reconsider all routes that they are serving and get a little smaller than they are now...

The problem that I do not understand, there are many Greek people all over the world and Olympic can not establish any route that makes profit...?

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
DETA737
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:19 am

I'm surprised they've actually lasted this long. I'm not aware of their current situation, but I know they've been close to the brink for quite some time. Perhaps some of our Greek friends could shed some light on the current situation. BTW what are their current longhaul destinations? JFK, YYZ, JNB, is that about right? I know they gave up on Australia some years ago.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:19 am

The problem with OA are the trade unions: if the airline wishes to make changes to its organisation, the unions oppose them, hence they are never made. If positive change is to be made, then something must be done to counter the trade unions. If not, OA will remain as it is or fail.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
flyyul
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:36 am

DETA737,

Im not sure if you conveniently dropped YUL from that list.
 
A342
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:40 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Thread starter):
and rj's for domestic service.

This would only increase operating and aquisition costs. Greece is a rather small contry, turboprop aircraft are enough for domestic flying.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
DETA737
Posts: 617
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:52 am

I didn't even realise they still served YUL. I would have thought that OA would have dropped that route to concentrate on YYZ. It seems that their 4 longhauls are primarily focused on VFR traffic. I was just reading that there is an EU inquiry about the state aid given to the airline and that a report should come out on September 14. Things don't look good and apparently OA will be expected to repay any illegal subsidies.
 
georgiabill
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:22 am

Obviously the future is bleak! Hopefully Aegean or another company will step up and attempt to do what SN has done since the collapse of Sabena
 
Orion737
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:29 am

I rather think Olympic do have a need for a jet aircraft for domestic flights, particualrly for summer routes between Athens and the larger islands like Rhodos, Corfu and Heraklion (Crete).

Also some of the lengths of these inter-island sectors can be quite lengthy. Although Greece has a relativley small population as a whole, the disperal of its population and the topography of the country means that air travel is extremley important to the Greek economy and way of life.

Prior to the 717s, the 732 was used for many years for busy domestic routes even supported by the A300 during busy summer months. An all turboprop fleet for domestic flights would be inadequate.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 10):
I didn't even realise they still served YUL. I would have thought that OA would have dropped that route to concentrate on YYZ.

Olympic 423 operates ATH-YUL-YYZ
 
highflyer9790
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Thread starter):
Wrong fleet, I think the A332's would better serve Olympic than the under utilized A340's, next generation 737's or A320 family aircraft for European routes and rj's for domestic service.

I see where you are coming from for the long haul fleet, but RJs??? the ATR is the perfect aircraft for those small runways in the greek islands, landing in a crosswind, and passenger load.
121
 
scotron11
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:52 pm

The Greek government has been trying for quite a while to get Olympic off their hands. There is a deal for an Greek-American investment company to take over the carrier but it is not clear if it will go ahead because of the European Union. The EU ruled that subsidies Olympic Airlines received, when it was born out of the "old" Olympic Airways, amounted to illegal state aid and the carrier was ordered to repay 160M euros. It never did. The EU is due to rule tomorrow that the carrier received additional "illegal" state aid in the form of leased aircraft which the government purchased and will demand the carrier repay an additional 150M euros.

Also, unions are threatening to shut down all airports if the government shuts down the airline. Perfect Catch22 situation!
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 5):
The problem that I do not understand, there are many Greek people all over the world and Olympic can not establish any route that makes profit...?

It's because OA traditional served it's key markets with low frequency and it's service was inconsistent. Why would I fly OA from MEL or SYD to ATH when they operated 2 or 3pw, when I can fly EK 5pw, TG 3pw, SQ 3pw or GF daily?
These Greeks all round the world are no longer the migrants of the 50's and 60's. They now have a grasp of English, are travel savvy and don't need to language comforts of the flag carrier...

Quoting DETA737 (Reply 6):
Perhaps some of our Greek friends could shed some light on the current situation. BTW what are their current longhaul destinations? JFK, YYZ, JNB, is that about right? I know they gave up on Australia some years ago.

Yes, the suspension of Australian services was under the direction of the BA consultants. Obviously they couldn't get it right either.
First they suspended Australian ops, and then resumed some months later with SYD only services. Wrong strategy AFAIK.
They should have upped flights with the A343 to 5 or daily, made more of an effort to sell the stopover point in the off season (bangkok), and should have been more aggresive in promoting it's European network in both directions.
 
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mariner
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:53 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 16):
First they suspended Australian ops, and then resumed some months later with SYD only services. Wrong strategy AFAIK.

I agree. If Melbourne really is the second largest Greek city in the world:

http://www.intown.com.au/locals/melbourne/melbourne-greek-precinct.htm

you'd think Olympic could make a go of it.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
lewis
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:04 pm

Just heard on the news about OA that staff morale is very low, they are expecting the company to close soon. 6000 cancellations have been made by passengers. OA says that flights will be OK until tomorrow and a new statement will be issued about the following days on Wednesday.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:37 pm

Quoting Lewis (Reply 18):
Just heard on the news about OA that staff morale is very low, they are expecting the company to close soon. 6000 cancellations have been made by passengers. OA says that flights will be OK until tomorrow and a new statement will be issued about the following days on Wednesday.

Having seen the difficulty of an airline ceasing operations (Ansett Australia), I wish OA employees all the best.

However, moving forward, what is the best way forward.

Will it be a new airline, or is Aegean in a position to expand rapidly and become the "flag" carrier for Greece?
 
lewis
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:07 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 19):
Will it be a new airline, or is Aegean in a position to expand rapidly and become the "flag" carrier for Greece?

Aegean just ordered 8 A320s with 12 option.
 
OA269
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 1999 12:20 am

RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:33 pm

After the recent order of A320s from Aegean it's for sure that they're not interensted in purchasing any part of Olympic, either Catering or handling, nor mentioning any widebody A340. They clearly target and for me can be adequate for covering the domestic routes (let's not mention competition and prices).

Lewis, the morale of course is very low now. But as typical Greeks they didn't care in the past, when they had their rich salaries and used to suck this company simply because it's a state company and money would come in from taxpayers no matter what. And I'm mainly talking about unions that are the strongest part of labour. Despite PASOK clearly caused this situation, since 1997 (Prime Minster Simitis) they were constantly trying to sell it but always failed due to the unions.

My general opinion for Olympic does not differ from any other state company in Greece. As I mentioned many times already here, it's all about the Greek attitude (nootropia). Very unprofessional,with no vision,sneaky but also very pig-headed. We are far from seeing our job as extension of ourselves and way of improving, we only adopt the "3 hours left till 2 o'clock to go home" attitude.

I personally support the closure and next day reopening with much less staff and much better terms to go on. It could also be a clear message from gonvernment for us to start thinking in more productive private sector terms.
 
OA269
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 1999 12:20 am

RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:36 am

PS coincidence? I will fly with 269 on Thursday 15th, now it's already Wednesday and in the middle of meetings-government for the future of OA and OA unions for strikes and blocking of AIA. I will let you know what happened whether I finally fly or not.
 
iakobos
Posts: 3255
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:20 pm

Here we go...568 times 1 million Euro.

http://news.ert.gr/en/newsDetails.asp?ID=10967
 
georgiabill
Posts: 753
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:51 am

I would say if the EU makes Olympic repay funds to the Greek Government I would assume that would kill any deal to sell the company. So sad another national airline bankrupt and my guess soon to be a memory RIP OLYMPIC!!!!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:17 am

As sad as it seems, the closure of Olympic might finally allow the creating of a strong and viable Greek airline based on commercial realities.

Olympic for decades has been nothing more then a government social service with bloated staffing and indifferent service.

Whether Aegean or a whole new airline rises to become "The airline of Greece", the country deserves much better then the fiasco called Olympic.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ovelix
Posts: 606
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RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:43 pm

The "swiss" model has already been adopted three years ago. "Olympic Airways" bacame "Olympic Airlines" and the fiasco continued for three more years.

What is outrageous is that OA in the few past years did not pay any taxes (the greek state turned a blind eye over this) and did not pay social security for the employees (which is BTW a crime).

Well, the OA administration was ALWAYS appointed by the government since 1975 when the airline was bought from Onassis. And they were almost always failed MP's and politicians without a proffession. Good riddance.

The main problem for OA is that the personnel cannot be fired at all whatever the reason. They are civil servants and they are protected by law. Who, in his right mind, would buy such a company?

Any private airline with the problems and mismanagement of OA would have gone bankrupt loooong ago. I don't wanna pay their fat cat salaries any more.

They should close it completely and give the opportunity to other private companies to take over without dirty management and government appointed officials.
 
olympicbis
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 6:32 pm

RE: Olympic, What Is The Future?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:21 pm

One more step further into surrealism : there was a demonstration by some OA staff at Athens airport yesterday, AGAINST privatisation ! Of course, they do not want to lose their " civil servant" privileges, as in a private - owned Company, it would mean that they would have to start real WORK, something which seems inconceivable for so many among them...

Responsibilities for OAs fiasco are multiple, with the successive Greek governements from 1975 being the first cause of it as Ovelix points out.

Substantial part of OA staff are of course also to blame for their attitude all these years, especially among cockpit and cabin crew, some of them tending to consider themselves some kind of "untouchables" who could virtually always have the upper hand each time the unefficient management - politically appointed -would come up with some obscure reorganisation.
Well, congratulations to all of them, there are the results, and whatever happens, they will have to blame themselves only.