pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:20 am

I know that in the United States, the FAA regulations require a minimum of 1 flight attendant for every 50 passengers. In another thread a person said that in Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) requires 1 flight attendant for every 36 passengers.

So this has me wondering. What do other countries say is the minimum number of FAs required on each flight?

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:26 am

19 and less=0
20-50=1
50-100=2
100-150=3
and so on
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:34 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):
19 and less=0
20-50=1
50-100=2
100-150=3
and so on

Right. but the number of seats on board an a/c is not the only factor :
The law requires also one F/A by pair of main doors; The most "restrictive" factor has to be applied :

ex : An A319LR equipped in a single 45 Business Class seats will require a minimum of 2 F/A, though there are less than 50 seats.
 
VHXLR8
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:40 pm

Quoting Pilottim747 (Thread starter):
In another thread a person said that in Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) requires 1 flight attendant for every 36 passengers.

This is true, plus there also needs to be 1 F/A per door
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 2):
The law requires also one F/A by pair of main doors; The most "restrictive" factor has to be applied

Ah, I hadnt thought about an aircraft like the A319CJ. But it makes sense.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:53 pm

You must have the F/A as per pax number above, and the 1 F/A per pair of doors. Emergency windows excepted. Plus, you must be able to demonstrate the the regulatory authorities that you can evacuate a full aircraft using that number of F/As using 50% of the available exits within *forgot how long*...

You can have 10F/As in a 732 but if they can't evacuate it in that period, then you need more  Smile J/K

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:35 pm

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 1):

Are you saying if 18 Pax capacity,No F/A required.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:02 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 6):
Are you saying if 18 Pax capacity,No F/A required.

Yes, absolutely !

That's why aircraft like Twin-otters DHC-6/Emb 110 with 16/17 seats or so have no F/A on board


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stephan Klos Pugatch
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Martin Krupka

 
FlagshipAZ
Posts: 3192
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:40 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:00 am

Just to clarify something here regarding the US system of flight attendent ratio per passengers. It is one F/A per 50 seats, regardless if there is passengers sitting in those seats. If the aircraft has a seat 51, then 2 F/As are required.
JdwFloyd, if I can tweak your numbers a bit here, it should read like this.
0-19 = 0
20-50 = 1
51-100 = 2
101-150 = 3
151-200 = 4
201-250 = 5
You get the idea. So for example, a 763 with 216 seats installed still requires 5 F/As even if there is only 108 revenue passengers aboard. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:11 am

We have the ridiculous situation in the UK. BMI have to carry 2 flight attendants on a 49 seat ERJ145 yet only have to provide 3 on a full loaded 149 seat 733!!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:32 am

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 5):
that you can evacuate a full aircraft using that number of F/As using 50% of the available exits within *forgot how long*...

90 seconds

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 9):
BMI have to carry 2 flight attendants on a 49 seat ERJ145

Why? Is there a rear main door? In the US, ERJ135/145 and CRJ200s run with 1 F/A
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:47 am

I dont know why! It is the case though. Bet its killing BMI's pig that they have to carry 2 cabin attendants on the ERJ145. They have cut back the FAs to the bare minimum on other aircraft even though the staff have more work now to do with the time-consuming task of on-board sales.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:12 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 8):
It is one F/A per 50 seats, regardless if there is passengers sitting in those seats



Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 8):
So for example, a 763 with 216 seats installed still requires 5 F/As even if there is only 108 revenue passengers aboard.

Actually, if a F/A is not available for any reason (strike, flu epidemic, whatever), an airline can limit the number of PAX on board according to the number of F/A available.

Example : Your airline is based at CDG and operates a 168 seats A320.
168 seats = 4 F/A.
Your plane is leaving CDG to MAD with 168 PAX and 4 F/A.
In MAD, during the 1 hour stopover, one of the F/A breaks his leg and is taken to the hospital.
Your plane will be able to return to CDG with only 3 F/A (the rule of 1 F/A for each pair of main door is respected) but with a maximum of 150 PAX on board.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:32 pm

With larger aircraft such as those with more than 2 pairs of entry doors/emergency exit DOORs... you can carry less FAs if you can effectively seal unused portions of the cabin from pax/crew use during the flight... However, I am not sure...

N1120... yes 90 secs  Smile

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5183
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 13):
With larger aircraft such as those with more than 2 pairs of entry doors/emergency exit DOORs... you can carry less FAs if you can effectively seal unused portions of the cabin from pax/crew use during the flight... However, I am not sure...

You are right.

You can operate a B747 with only 5 F/A (1 F/A for each pair of doors on the main deck) and a limitation of 250 PAX on the main deck . No F/A and No PAX at the upper deck.

You can even operate a B747-300/400 with only 1 F/A :

Less than 50 PAX, all seated at the upper deck. No PAX & No F/A on the main deck.
It happened once on AF :

In Sept.1993, when AF's B744 F-GITA ended its landing at PPT half in the lagoon ...

AF sent another B744 with a maintenance/engineer team to PPT. No one on the main deck. 28 Persons seating at the upper deck (Business Class) and 2 F/A. A good friend of mine was one of them.

[Edited 2005-09-13 11:41:27]
 
atco2b
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 5:20 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:52 pm

In July when travelling with BA from LGW-MAN, our 734 had 17 passengers, and 5 cabin crew! I presume this is standard with BA, and also predict that the next sectors for the crew (MAN-LGW, LGW-EDI, EDI-LGW) needed the extra help  Smile
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:03 pm

I feel sorry for the cabin staff of BMI who now with reduced numbers, have to provide a pay on-board service on full flights out of LHR - BRU, CDG etc. Those girls better get themselves some Lucozade and a pair of roller skates!
 
pilottim747
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2001 2:34 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:41 pm

So it looks like most countries have the 1:50 minimum ratio. Are there other countries like Australia that have a stricter ratio?

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6458
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:44 am

Here in Indonesia, a couple of airlines have gone to 3 F/As for 732s, and 4 on the MD82... AWAir goes for 3 F/As for 733s...

Garuda have used 5 F/As for all their 737 flights including -500s... however I think the -500 have 4 now... and GA-Citilink has 3 only...

So for a 1 hr flight, it's food drinks and sales by 3 F/As on the 732 for a few airlines here...

On the other end, another airline was once witnessed to have had 8 F/As on an MD82... with full pax... the "extra" F/As came out of the rear galley after take off... now where did they sit? the galley floor? *shaking my head*

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
cslusarc
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: The Minimum Number Of FAs Onboard Required By Law

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:19 am

No one has mentioned CANADA:

19 seats or fewer = NO FA
20-50 seats = 1 FA (this is an exemption to the 1:40 PAX rule)
51-80 pax = 2 FA
81-120 pax = 3 FA
121-160 pax = 4 FA
...... and so on with a 1:40 PAX ratio

example:
- a 735 or 736 configured with 120 pax (all-Y) or 100 pax (12J/88Y) requires 3 FAs, but a 124 pax (all-Y) 732 requires 4 FAs.
--cslusarc from YWG