deltaguy767
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Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:30 am

Hello All,
I was wondering with B6 getting their E-190's, DL stating that it will convert more 757's to the Song product, with UA most likely making most of their A-320's TED aircraft, and with WN's longtime success, where will these airines seek to go next? B6 will clearly be able to go into smaller markets with their E-190's. If WN takes orders for more B-737's surely they will expand. However I see a slightly less of an expansion for Song and TED because of their mainline ties. Also feel free to talk about FL and F9. I just was wondering about this because there seems to be so much more potential with Song,TED,and B6, not so much WN as they already pretty much serve most major cities in the US or their surrounding area.

Regards from BDL,
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
B742
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:36 am

Personaly for TED, I think that UA should should make all of their Airbus aircraft (320/319) into the TED brand, and just have the Boeing's as UA! Also add more airbus' to replace the older 737's! But one problem, lack of money!

Song need to receive more 752's, I wonder if they will ever get 737-900ER's or 787's!

I think WN won't stop until they have a hub at every US city!  Wink

Jetblue are to receive 100 EMB-190's, so they have a pretty good expansion comming up!

Rob!  Smile
 
rwsea
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:44 am

I'm guessing Song will connect the dots on its existing routes, perhaps including some of the following:

SFO-FLL
SFO-TPA
SEA-FLL
SEA-MCO
BDL-LAS
BOS-AUA
JFK- Carribbean, Mexico

It would also be great to see some routes launched from new cities including:

PHX-JFK
SAN-JFK
PDX-JFK
DFW-JFK
DFW-BOS
DFW-FLL
DFW-MCO
 
b6sea
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
Jetblue are to receive 100 EMB-190's, so they have a pretty good expansion comming up

My main hope is for DAB service!!! But otherwise I think someday we will see the day when DL just converts its whole product to the Song product and just keeps the DL name and a first class cabin...

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
I think WN won't stop until they have a hub at every US city!

I agree! Maybe expansion to Canada, codesharing with WestJet?? same for B6??

-Chans
 
UAcosCS
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:51 am

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Thread starter):
UA most likely making most of their A-320's TED aircraft

I believe UAL said the wont convert any more A320's to TED. They are tapped out plane wise.

TED will expand to Mexico, and the Caribbean, just my guess. Once the BK process ends I bet they will take delivery of their remaining Airbuses.

Quoting B6sea (Reply 3):
Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
I think WN won't stop until they have a hub at every US city!

I agree! Maybe expansion to Canada, codesharing with WestJet?? Same for B6??

That wont happen. There is more cost involved with Over water planes, and so forth.
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
B742
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 3):

My main hope is for DAB service!!!

Why not, I'm sure JetBlue could fill up a E190 on a daily flight from JFK!

Anyone know where JetBlue plans to base the E190's? Any at EWR?

Quoting B6sea (Reply 3):
I agree! Maybe expansion to Canada, codesharing with WestJet?? same for B6??

I wouldn't be suprised if WN entered the Canadian maket themselves, but I doubt if B6 or WN would codeshare with WestJet!

Would WestJet ever start ops from a city in the US?

Rob!  Smile
 
b6sea
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
I wouldn't be suprised if WN entered the Canadian maket themselves, but I doubt if B6 or WN would codeshare with WestJet!

Would WestJet ever start ops from a city in the US?

Well, David Neelman (sp?) was involved with WestJet, thats the only reason why I say and also WestJet was initially modeled after SW. Also, that way neither airline would have to make a significant investment in flying to Canada.


And, if i understand what you are asking, Westjet currently serves FLL, LAX and various other US cities.

-Chans
 
B742
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 6):

And, if i understand what you are asking, Westjet currently serves FLL, LAX and various other US cities.

Sorry, I ment start up a Hub in the US (like B6 at JFK)!  Wink

Rob!  Smile
 
b6sea
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 7):
Sorry, I ment start up a Hub in the US (like B6 at JFK)!

What do you mean though? like intra-US flights? because that's not legal (cabbotage) but if you mean fly to 5 or 6 canadian cities then I could definately see that from say LAX, SFO, LAS, and MIA.

-Chans
 
B742
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 8):

What do you mean though? like intra-US flights? because that's not legal (cabbotage) but if you mean fly to 5 or 6 canadian cities then I could definately see that from say LAX, SFO, LAS, and MIA.

I mean....
For WestJet to start up a base at (lets say SAN) and then starting flights to cities like JFK,EWR,MCO,MIA,MSY,ORD,BOS,BWI.... along with flying to YYZ,YVR,YUL.....

I think that helps  Wink

Rob!  Smile
 
b6sea
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 9):
I mean....
For WestJet to start up a base at (lets say SAN) and then starting flights to cities like JFK,EWR,MCO,MIA,MSY,ORD,BOS,BWI.... along with flying to YYZ,YVR,YUL.....

OK OK, Gotcha, I'm a little slow today. Yeah, that's not legal as no foreign airline can operate a revenue flight between two US cities (without special permission). Same situation if AS or UA wanted to start a hub in say, YVR... just cant happen. I think this is one of the reasons you don't see Virgin America up and opperating right now.

-Chans
 
FA4B6
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:06 am

I think in terms of B6 you'll see a lot of connecting the dots ... JFK-BOS, BOS-BUF, BOS-IAD, BOS-PBI, BOS-SJU, BUF-MCO, BUF-TPA, SYR-BOS .. stuff like that.

I'd love B6 to start a mexican route, maybe send an e190 JFK-RSW-CUN. The gate we use at RSW is international already and we could have pax connect there from BOS JFK and EWR pretty easily.

I'd LOVE most of all to see B6 begin JFK-EYW, though I dont think its feasible with the 190.

[Edited 2005-09-12 02:08:19]
"Leap! And the net will appear."
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:42 am

just wondering...could an airline fly say FLL-Calgary-Edmonton? And if so could Calgary-Edmonton have local traffic?
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
aa757first
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 12):
just wondering...could an airline fly say FLL-Calgary-Edmonton? And if so could Calgary-Edmonton have local traffic?

I think there is a special freedom they need to operate the first flight, but most governments allow it no problem. But, it could not carry local traffic.

Ehtopian flies Ethiopia to JFK to IAD, for example. People can go Ethiopia to JFK or Ethiopia to IAD after stopping in JFK, but you cannot fly Ethopian from JFK to IAD.

AAndrew
 
UAcosCS
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:31 am

I have heard rumors that B6 have expressed interest in COS. Has anybody else heard this rumor?
We had dreams and songs to sing, It's so lonely round the fields of Athenry.
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:41 am

Quoting UAcosCS (Reply 14):
I have heard rumors that B6 have expressed interest in COS. Has anybody else heard this rumor?

Probably might not happen since they already serve DEN but it might be a possibility.

For B6 well with the 190's can't say where they will deploy them all. Like FA4B6 said, a lot of that stuff probably.

I will post more later.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
nwa757boy
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:00 am

Any chance of Song coming to DTW? I don't know where it could go to or what? maybe SFO? MCO? but im sure NW would have a hissy fit
 
hz747300
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:10 am

I thought that Song and TED were just knocking off mainline routes of their parents? B6 and WN rarely compete, so I would say next would be:

B6 to Tucson
WN to Williams, Chandler, AZ from Salt Lake City & LAX

And I know I would be wrong.
Keep on truckin'...
 
stirling
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:40 am

What are the chances of SONG using other aircraft besides the 752?
It kinda limits their choices of airports does it not?

With jetBlue set to get the Jungle Jets, they have a much bigger bucket of opportunity to draw from....
Delete this User
 
AADC10
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:41 am

I suspect that B6 will initially deploy the EMB-190s to their (required) upstate New York destinations, allowing increased frequencies on those short flights. After that it will be connecting the dots, mostly north-south on the coasts. Residents of smaller cities will be disappointed because there is still lower hanging fruit in the big cities.
 
ssides
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:23 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 1):
I think WN won't stop until they have a hub at every US city!

Actually, this is entirely contrary to WN's expansion and profitability strategy. One of the reasons WN is profitable is because it only flies to cities that have the capability of filling its planes. Today, it's been said that if you can't fill 10 737s a day, you won't be getting WN service (I think this has been exaggerated, but you get the picture). WN hasn't been expanding to places like ICT, ABI, MLN, or PNS ... they've expanded to PHL, ORF, PIT, and BDL.

WN only serves 60 cities, compared to 200+ from most of the majors. You won't see them in "every city" anytime soon.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:46 am

Here's a United press release from earlier this year detailing Ted's last expansion. They converted another nine A320s to Ted to provide the expanded service.

http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,52947-1,00.html
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luv2fly
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 18):
With jetBlue set to get the Jungle Jets, they have a much bigger bucket of opportunity to draw from....

The E190's are considered mainline.....
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:45 am

Song needs to add (more) routes to/from ATL! Those of us in the Southeast (except in FL from Orlando down) have no practical way to use this service. Come on, DL - How about ATL-LAS or something??
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
FLAIRPORT
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 23):
Song needs to add (more) routes to/from ATL! Those of us in the Southeast (except in FL from Orlando down) have no practical way to use this service. Come on, DL - How about ATL-LAS or something??

DL flies that 1X weekly FLL-ATL-FLL (competeing with themselves might I add as they have mainline flights at the same time)...they don't even sell meald on those flights...just snacks!
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
typhaerion
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:20 am

Quoting B6sea (Reply 3):
My main hope is for DAB service!!!

C'mon everyone!!! Lets All Chant It!!! D-A-B! D-A-B! D-A-B! Lets go more carriers then just CO and DL at DAB, we would love to have you!!!!!

Ahh, if wishes were fishes we all would eat. And unfortunetly, this is but a hopeful wish. I don the lucky socks every morning all the same for more DAB service. Such a nicely set up small airport, like CAK vs CLE. It would be such a great alternate if only a few more people flew out of there.

And for us ERAU people, getting there would be much more exciting. Woohoo, another DL MD-80 or CRJ and CO ERJ. Be still my beating heart.  sarcastic 
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
HBIHLtoEZE
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:56 am

What about a service to Hawaii? Fares are still (even though AQ and HA have sometimes decent advance booking fares) very high. One can fly much cheaper from the West coast to the East coast as to Hawaii (both flights take approximately 5:30 h).

Cheers
Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:59 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 24):
DL flies that 1X weekly FLL-ATL-FLL (competeing with themselves might I add as they have mainline flights at the same time)...they don't even sell meald on those flights...just snacks!

Pure maintenance-only flight with tickets sold. Arrives at ATL on tuesday, spends a day in TOC, and leaves wednesday. It's not even got a standard flight number, like 1278. Instead, it is 9713, which stands for a special flight.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 23):
Song needs to add (more) routes to/from ATL! Those of us in the Southeast (except in FL from Orlando down) have no practical way to use this service. Come on, DL - How about ATL-LAS or something??

Why waste Song from ATL when mainline is handling the job good enough?
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 24):
DL flies that 1X weekly FLL-ATL-FLL (competeing with themselves might I add as they have mainline flights at the same time)...they don't even sell meald on those flights...just snacks!

That is a maintenance positioning flight that they figure, if its gonna fly, ya might as well sell seats on it! Makes sense, huh?

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 23):
Song needs to add (more) routes to/from ATL!

Actually, part of Delta's strategy to sell the Song brand is to use a Song aircraft for substitutions on some high leisure flights, such as ATL-LAS. You won't see a flight number change or anything, just a swap with aircraft, so that those onboard the flight are allowed to experience the Song product. And with Song flying in LAS, it gives them more of a chance to book Song later on if they enjoy the service. Those aircraft are operated with all DL FA's and one Song FA to assist with the IFE demos. I think they have been used on ATL-LAS, ATL-TPA, ATL-LAX and ATL-SEA before. You just have to hope to draw the lucky straw sometimes, so to speak.


OttoPylit
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thelowfarehero
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:40 am

what I would like to see is;

Song: BUR-BOS, BUR-FLL, SNA-JFK, SNA-FLL

Ted: BUR-ORD, SEA-LAS

JetBlue: BUR-IAD, BUR-OAK, JFK-MDW

Southwest: DAB-BWI, CLT-BWI, BUR/LAX/SNA all nonstop to SEA/PDX
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ERJ170
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:50 am

what I would like to see is:

Song: RDU-FLL (2x 757) + 1 ERJ, RDU-MCO (2x 757) + 2 ERJ
Delta: RDU-RSW (1x 738), RDU-CMH (1x E70/ERJ)
JetBlue: RDU-OAK (1x 320), RDU-JFK (4x E90), RDU-BUF (1x E90), RDU-MIA (2x E90)
Southwest: RDU-SAT, RDU-HOU
USAirways: RDU-LAX (1x 757), RDU-NAS (1x E70)
Frontier: RDU-DEN (2x 319), RDU-CUN (4w 318)
Aiming High and going far..
 
BOSPMV
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:25 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 30):
Song: RDU-FLL (2x 757) + 1 ERJ, RDU-MCO (2x 757) + 2 ERJ
Delta: RDU-RSW (1x 738), RDU-CMH (1x E70/ERJ)
JetBlue: RDU-OAK (1x 320), RDU-JFK (4x E90), RDU-BUF (1x E90), RDU-MIA (2x E90)
Southwest: RDU-SAT, RDU-HOU
USAirways: RDU-LAX (1x 757), RDU-NAS (1x E70)
Frontier: RDU-DEN (2x 319), RDU-CUN (4w 318)

pretty lofty wants. Id say the most likely to happen would be the WN flights or perhaps the DL flights.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Where Will Song, Jetblue,TED, And WN Go Next?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:30 am

I can dream..

I would think that perhaps the DL and F9 flights migh make the most sense..
Aiming High and going far..

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