ANCFlyer
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AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:12 am

AS announced today (Sunday, 9/11/05) that effective today, with no notice might I add, they have canceled service to SCC on Sundays effective immediately, for the foreseeable future. Previous service was on a 732 Combi.

While canceling service to a small place like SCC doesn't seem like a drastic move, I know of a dozen people at SCC right now, with no ride to ANC. It has impacted each of them with their followon flights from ANC to where ever. I'm sure AS will waive any fees (I hope) for passengers that had to be reaccomodated on a connecting AS flight out of ANC. What about the people that were connecting to a different carrier? Seems they are just SOL - rather a crappy thing for AS to do (getting used to that now though).

Anyone have info as to why they suspended Sunday service to SCC? How long we can anticipate the service to remain suspended?

That leaves SCC without commerical service on Sunday, for now. I foresee Frontier Flying Service changing their schedule to add a SUnday flight, but they fly B1900s . . . must stop in FAI also.

Our "hometown" airline has shat upon us again Alaskans - again.
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TWA902fly
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:16 am

Is there service to SCC on the other 6 days on Alaska - because if you think about it - flying a 737 - and i have been to SCC - to a place like SCC is already a miracle. Maybe is BPAmaco and whoever else is up there pitched out some money, AS will rethink their plan - if theyre not making money - why fly there - and if the oil companies will make money by having AS shuttle their employees up there - why not pay for the benefits?

'902
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jmc1975
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:22 am

...............Where is SCC?
.......
 
luv2fly
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:23 am

I take it SCC is in Alaska though what city is it?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
AeroWesty
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
I take it SCC is in Alaska though what city is it?

Prudhoe Bay/Deadhorse, AK
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ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:34 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 1):
Maybe is BPAmaco and whoever else is up there pitched out some money, AS will rethink their plan - if theyre not making money - why fly there - and if the oil companies will make money by having AS shuttle their employees up there

BP and ConocoPhillips are the big dogs up here. And they generally buy quite a few seats on AS, especially on the weekends when they don't fly 3-4 flights a day with their own 732s.

I'm sure it's an economic issue with AS, as their 732s are getting olders and older. However, to simply cancel the service, today with no notice, and cancel the only service on Sunday is a pretty shitty thing to do.

As I said, our "hometown" airline has screwed Alaskans again.

As for the oil companies, they own three B732s, they are in the database here, and fly 3-4 times a day, every day except Saturday and Sunday (no Saturday flights and one Sunday flight). They are generally full (seats 111 pax). However, as I mentioned, there are very often overflow passengers that ride AS . . .

AS had the contract for ramp, catering and maintenance of the oil company birds until about a year ago when Northern Air Services picked it up. The oil companies call their aviation branch Shared Services Aviation. They maintain 3 B732s, a DHC6 Twin Otter and a Casa up here.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 2):
Where is SCC

Prudhoe Bay/Deadhorse, Alaska
http://www.airnav.com/airport/PASC
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RyDawg82
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:31 am

This was a planned change on the company's winter/spring schedule that took effect today, how do you say it came with no notice? Did you purchase a ticket for Sunday and then find the flight cancelled? Or simply did you just not see a press release outlining every single change made to the fall schedule? I can tell you this was a schedule change and not a spur of the moment cancellation.

-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:08 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
As I said, our "hometown" airline has screwed Alaskans again.

If it makes more economic sense to fly the aircraft elsewhere 1 day a week,
how can this be "screwing Alaskans"?
The 732 will be used for service in the AK market, so obviously there
is a greater need for that aircraft in another market, or there just wasn't
enough demand to operate it on Sundays.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 6):
This was a planned change on the company's winter/spring schedule that took effect today, how do you say it came with no notice?

Because no one up here knew about it, it's not posted on the Alaska.com as far as I can tell . . . I might have missed it.

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 6):
I can tell you this was a schedule change and not a spur of the moment cancellation.

I appreciate the info - and I'll pass the word around up here . . .

Perhaps you can share a link to the "press release" since I can't seem to find anything here:
http://www.alaskasworld.com/newsroom/asnews/default.asp
here:
http://www.alaskasworld.com/newsroom/asnews/archives.asp
or anywhere else on the site . . .

Thanks!
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
as739x
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:54 am

ANCFlyer, why do we have to post that we are dropping a flight to a city 1 day a week? No one had tickets because this was a planned change. But if you'd like, I will get a hold of marketing/planning and have them put a sign on the road leading into SCC that AS will drop the Sunday flight. Though that idea may go over like a fart in church! To ask AS to change like this is unthinkable. QX just stopped their Sunday morning flights to PDX from SFO to and no one showed up for the flight this morning! Please hold you bitterness of AS to yourself and the next schedule change is in October if I am not mistaken. Keep and eye on SCC changes.

Now to the real point. The 732's are truely on the latter end of their life and every down minute helps. Sunday loads to SCC must not have been holding and economically it was better for AS to sit or reroute the plane. Period!

ASSFO

By the way. United stopped there SFO-PVR/SJD flights with no notice. We got some of their pax last week. But I didnt see anything on the web or a sign leading into the airport.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:25 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
ANCFlyer, why do we have to post that we are dropping a flight to a city 1 day a week?

Ahh, the ONLY flight to that city that day 400 miles from no where. That's the only reason, really.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
But if you'd like, I will get a hold of marketing/planning and have them put a sign on the road leading into SCC that AS will drop the Sunday flight

Thanks! That'd be nice.  wink 

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
Please hold you bitterness of AS to yourself and the next schedule change is in October if I am not mistaken.

Why, AS service on the ground and in the air is a shadow of it's former self and believe me, I thoroughly enjoyed my travel on AS, but the crappy attitude and degraded service are but two examples of how AS has let itself go.

The reputation AS had through the 1990s and early 2000s was without question, an impeccable one, consistently on the top of the charts in all the rankings, and everyone envied AS. And now, they have proven to be a challenge for many people. Yes there are bitter travelers out here, and until AS improves again, there will continue to be. You can accept that, or not. Doesn't matter to me, really, I don't fly AS anyway any more . . .

But since Alaska was my "hometown" airline and I don't like the direction it's gone in the last few years . . . other than the very nice 738s . . . which finally caught up to them this summer with some exceptionally bad press and a hell of a lot of disgruntled very loyal AS fliers . . . I voice my opinion like many other fliers.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
By the way. United stopped there SFO-PVR/SJD flights with no notice. We got some of their pax last week. But I didnt see anything on the web or a sign leading into the airport

And I could care less about that - in several veins, not the least of which are the additional available flight from SFO-PVR/SJD provided by other carriers and I'm not headfing to PVR on UA any time in the near future. But not to worry, I read the sarcasm in your post.
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RyDawg82
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:30 am

Of further note, this isn't the first time AS has stopped serving SCC on Sundays. I can recall earlier this year, or maybe it was last were AS55/AS54 operated X7.

Again this was a planned change, AS also dropped ANC-SEA to 16 flights a day from aprox 20-25 flights a day, no need for a press release to state the business and seasonal needs of an airline, that's what a schedule change is for. With the great invention of computer reservation systems, I can assure you no one showed up to the SCC counter this morning, unless of course they just assumed nothing changes and attempted to standby home earlier.

-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
COERJ145
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:49 am

Couldn't AS deploy some Q400s/CR7s twice daily to restore service to SCC?
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
Couldn't AS deploy some Q400s/CR7s twice daily to restore service to SCC?

AS just isn't flying there on Sundays!
How do you restore service to something that hasn't been unrestored?
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
stirling
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:33 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
Couldn't AS deploy some Q400s/CR7s twice daily to restore service to SCC?

Those are only in the lower 48.....it wouldn't be economically feasible to send the fleet type all the way up North To Alaska, for just one flight a week...if the flight was so important, Alaska would still have it.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
I will get a hold of marketing/planning and have them put a sign on the road leading into SCC that AS will drop the Sunday flight. Though that idea may go over like a fart in church!

GOD I Love you for that! And here I thought I was the only one who said that!
Whenever I say that; people just look at me like I just stepped on a baby kitten's head.....or, like I just farted in church.
Keep spreadin' the Love.
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Chugach
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:42 pm

AS has made several cutbacks to intra-Alaska service in the winters, I suspect mostly due to the dwindling 732's. In fact, the milk run flights through SE Alaska (AS 64/65 and AS 61/66) are now entirely 734/73G. The morning flight to Barrow last winter was cut down to three or four flights a week (the afternoon flight stayed daily)....the early morning flights from ANC to Kodiak and Bethel were combined into a triangle ANC-BET-ADQ-ANC routing. I also think they send one 734 a day up to Nome and Kotzebue as well now. So, long story short, SCC isn't the only one.

I think once the 734 combi's come up online, service may be restored to its original levels. Considering the dwindling reliability of the 732's these days, I actually commend AS for pulling a few combi flights off the schedule if it helps to improve overall reliability.

Now, if AS would get off its schnide and offer a daytime ANC-PDX flight through the winter to supplement the redeye, both myself and my company would be very happy campers Big grin
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RyDawg82
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:22 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 15):
Now, if AS would get off its schnide and offer a daytime ANC-PDX flight through the winter to supplement the redeye, both myself and my company would be very happy campers 

Amen! I can't stress enough how well this market is for AS, such a strong performer 3x daily in the summer, then reduced to 1x redeye in the winter with usually very strong load factor...Such a shame...Wonder what it will take to finally get this one noticed by the powers that be.
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
as739x
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:14 pm

ANCFlyer, well I don't mean to be to sarcastic, but it just gets under the skin of AS employee's that have to hear the bitching from Alaskan's. Alaska is just like any other region that is dominated by one airline, things will just not be cheap. Please realize we are running a BUSINESS! If Alaska continues to fly routes or flights that lose money then we just get in more financial trouble then we are trying to avoid now. I'd love to see how the state of Alaska would survive without AS. Have fun running ANC-FAI-SCC on a Era Dash or Frontier B1900. OK...sorry I got sarcastic again. Back on track.

First, yes SCC only service 1 day a week will be cut, but again there was not money there. We just can not afford to fly a -200C up there and not make some money on it. We are in a period of were at least 2 -200's are in checks at a time ( as of today N740AS and N745AS are out of service for scheduled MX). The -400C are not out yet,so scheduling is very tight. Remember these -200 fly ALOT! Not a lot of down time. Keeping it on the ground or doing short flight to increase down time and maintance will improve the A/C reliability.


Second,Sorry..the sign leading into the airport is never going to happen!

Third, I agree with you on customer perspective! Yes. I as well as many employee's think that our advantage of great service has gone off track. But its a business and the airline industry is not your typical business. These LCC come around and we have to ,shall I say stoope to their level to compete. We offer the same price on a ticket from SEA-LAX as WN, but offer more services which cost money. Who do you think is going to make money on the flight?

ANCFlyer...I'm sorry for your feeling and as an employee I wish there was more I could do for you to think different of us, but the fact is there are so many variables in the industry out of Alaska's control that we just can't be the mirror image of the AS we were when there were less airlines and more regulations. And yes the UA example of their Mexico flights was a sarcastic remark, but was also making a point. They did the same thing with cutting the flight, though I see your point as to other ways of getting there. But that wasn't my point. They did in fact have people show up and find out there was no flights. So Im sorry that we cut or SCC flight on Sundays, but I think I made my point to the fact that is a business decision and there were way for the SCC people to know it was going to happen.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 17):
Have fun running ANC-FAI-SCC on a Era Dash

Ha Ha - I know, I fly a Dash 8 to work occasionally . . . what a pain . .. weight restricted, only 22 pax max, I agree . . . . the blasted thing never warms up in the winter . . . sometimes I take that flight ANC-FAI-GBH. It goes restricted because Era didn't want to contract with an FBO at FAI for fuel, so they take enough for roundtrip from ANC.

My concern, AS739X, is that unlike just about everywhere else in the nation, if a airline cuts a service to any place up here, except ANC or FAI, that means there is NO service. Most places only get one flight a day. Even though the population of Deadhorse is registerd by census at 7 full time residents, at any given time there are 5000+ oil workers, fireman, cops, cooks, blah, blah. We DO notice when there isn't an AS73 on the apron at SCC.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 17):
Second,Sorry..the sign leading into the airport is never going to happen!

Dangit . . .   

I will look forward to the day when the smiling Eskimo on Alaska's tail is again indicative of the attitude throughout the entire company . . .

I understand your perspective and appreciate you sharing it with me (us). Tis not an easy time for airlines these days . . .

[Edited 2005-09-12 17:11:06]
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tzsfo
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 17):
ANCFlyer, well I don't mean to be to sarcastic, but it just gets under the skin of AS employee's that have to hear the bitching from Alaskan's. Alaska is just like any other region that is dominated by one airline, things will just not be cheap. Please realize we are running a BUSINESS! If Alaska continues to fly routes or flights that lose money then we just get in more financial trouble then we are trying to avoid now. I'd love to see how the state of Alaska would survive without AS. Have fun running ANC-FAI-SCC on a Era Dash or Frontier B1900. OK...sorry I got sarcastic again. Back on track.

Well that is one way to look at it. Another way is that the market will drive the service. AS is there to run a business - true. But if AS was gone, somebody else would fill the gap - quickly.

Now on to the "bitching Alaskans"....As a former Southeast resident (and AS employee) I believe you can watch with pretty good reliability the fare changes in southeast and the rest of Alaska. They correlate almost exactly with fare sales in the lower 48. Now if this isn't price gouging - I don't know what is. I wouldn't mind paying 800 dollars round-trip for a 600 mile trip if the service was good. But AS service has went downhill in the last few years. Almost in direct relation to their labor relations.

I just find it ridiculous that people in the lower 48 call us "bitching Alaskans" when they have never experienced it. It's easy to sit in SFO and tell the Alaskans to stop complaining - but it is harder to be in OME or OTZ and say the same thing.

But don't worry ASSFO - we're still friends.... Smile
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ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting TZSFO (Reply 19):
I just find it ridiculous that people in the lower 48 call us "bitching Alaskans" when they have never experienced it. It's easy to sit in SFO and tell the Alaskans to stop complaining - but it is harder to be in OME or OTZ and say the same thing.

I wasn't going to go there with this thread - I get tired of trying to explain that flying across Alaska isn't like flying across Tennessee, or Texas, or Florida . . . if the plane is cancelled we just can't simply drive there. Further, I'll quite agree . . . whether AS employees like it or not; many, many Alaskans feel gouged by the fares up here, and also feel as though every time there is a fare sale in the lower 48, we pay the price through increased fares.

I know it drives EA_CO_AS up a wall to hear that, likely AS739X as well. That said, there's no proof to the contrary as far as the general flying public goes. Of course we get 'decent' fares ANC-SEA . . . there's competition. Who competes with AS on ANC-OTZ? ANC-BRW? ANC-JNU/KTN/SIT? So, while it is not necessarily MY feelings, it IS the feelings of many up here that our "hometown" airline takes advantage of the fact they are the ONLY game in town . . .
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SHUPirate1
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:49 am

ANCFlyer-I suppose, if all else fails, you could always just hire a team of sled-dogs and get to and from civilization that way...

Then again, at 626 miles, or 373 miles if you flew to Fairbanks and then dogsledded the rest of the way, somehow I have a feeling you'd rather not, and I'd totally understand.
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SHUPirate1
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:04 am

ANCFlyer-There's also the Dalton Highway if you want to drive up there, although it isn't recommended.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Lono
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
MY feelings, it IS the feelings of many up here that our "hometown" airline takes advantage of the fact they are the ONLY game in town . . .

AND
Having lived here for ever.... It is hard to keep smiling along with that Eskimo they have on the tail.... When you know the fares we pay subsidize AS's ability to compete in the lower 48... And we get treated badly for our efforts.... Service levels at AS are the worst I have ever seen them....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 22):
ANCFlyer-There's also the Dalton Highway if you want to drive up there, although it isn't recommended

I have driven it - but never, ever in my personal vehicle . . . not a chance. 481 miles, Deadhorse to Fairbanks, some pavement, mostly not, 12-15 hours at a minimum.
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as739x
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:53 am

Again you guys, I never said that I disagree! But you live in Alaska and its not the only place in the world or even in the US this happens. If you can rope another airline to servce the market then things would change. TZSFO, I just has a conversation with you know who, and have been explained the attitude. And again I stress that I understand as much as a lower 48'er can. But this was started over a 1 flight a week being cut. Its Business!

ASSFO

No hard feeling ANC and TZ...its just my take!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Chugach
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting RyDawg82 (Reply 16):
Amen! I can't stress enough how well this market is for AS, such a strong performer 3x daily in the summer, then reduced to 1x redeye in the winter with usually very strong load factor...Such a shame...Wonder what it will take to finally get this one noticed by the powers that be.
-R

My father offered an interesting theory several years back as to why there aren't more ANC-PDX flights on AS: They want to supplement the Horizon shuttle between Portland and Seattle. Who knows how true that is, but if you get on a QX shuttle between PDX-SEA at almost any point in the day, you will see people connecting on to various Alaska destinations.

But I agree, it is surprising how much the ANC-PDX market is ignored by AS. The connecting possibilities at PDX for QX flights around the northwest and AS flights to CA, LAS, and PHX could probably justify an extra flight by themselves, and relieve pressure on the SEA hub at the same time. Nevermind the O&D traffic that hates taking the redeye.

Here's to hoping that AS wakes up to this...hopefully they will once the additional 738's come on line.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 25):
No hard feeling ANC and TZ...its just my take!

I quite agree AS739X . . . like I said, your perspective is welcome . . .

 biggrin 
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stirling
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:57 am

What I find most incredible about this situation is that, the best aircraft to replace a Boeing 737-200.....is another Boeing 737-200!

Isn't that the reason why this is happening in the first place? Because of the dwindling supply; and the never-ending demand for it's services?

Hasn't Boeing developed a "Un-Developed Runway" version of the 737NG? Such as a modified 737-600....with the little compressed air nozzles under the nacelles to blow FOD out of the intake's path?
Can it be done?
and if it has...
Why hasn't AS got some?
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Further, I'll quite agree . . . whether AS employees like it or not; many, many Alaskans feel gouged by the fares up here, and also feel as though every time there is a fare sale in the lower 48, we pay the price through increased fares.

I know it drives EA_CO_AS up a wall to hear that, likely AS739X as well.

Where did you get THAT idea?  Wink

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
Who competes with AS on ANC-OTZ? ANC-BRW? ANC-JNU/KTN/SIT? So, while it is not necessarily MY feelings, it IS the feelings of many up here that our "hometown" airline takes advantage of the fact they are the ONLY game in town . . .

I can understand the feelings and perception of those who live in Alaska, but the reality is that if AS were making money hand over fist up there you'd see the competition entering the market full-force.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:16 am

It's too bad that AS wasn't willing to buy any 737-700C's...and I think a lot has to do with the FAA's position on movable bulkheads on the combis. I don't think there is gravel kit made for the hi-bypass engines.

Doesn't AS tone down AK services for the winter typically?
 
Chugach
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:30 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 30):
Doesn't AS tone down AK services for the winter typically?

Not as much as you might think. I think the only route that sees significant reductions is ANC-Dillingham and ANC-King Salmon, and it's really not much of a difference for passengers since PenAir has both of those towns served well from Anchorage. Other than that, I think ANC-Bethel goes from 4x daily to 3x daily, and ANC-OME-OTZ also goes from 4x daily to 3x daily. I can't think of any other reductions off the top of my head, other than ANC-FAI losing a couple of flights in the winter due to the traffic decrease. Oh, and ANC-JNU goes to 3x daily in the winter, down from 4x.
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qxq400
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RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
Couldn't AS deploy some Q400s/CR7s twice daily to restore service to SCC?

NO!!!!!!!!!!! We are in desprate need of about 10 more Q400/CR7s already!
We can not handle the business we have down here. Not tomention starting Alaska service!
Welcome baby Madison Renee
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:04 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
I can understand the feelings and perception of those who live in Alaska, but the reality is that if AS were making money hand over fist up there you'd see the competition entering the market full-force.

I agree, Alaska is not making money hand over fist, but AS does makes money up here. They have no problem filling the planes with passengers/cargo.

Quoting Chugach (Reply 31):
ANC-OME-OTZ also goes from 4x daily to 3x daily.

Actually, We do not loose any flights during the winter. We receive 2 -200 combis and a -400. Plus quite a few freighters at nights.

Quoting Lono (Reply 23):
Service levels at AS are the worst I have ever seen them....

Agreed


Adam
AS is still my favorite  Smile
 
tzsfo
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:07 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:07 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
I can understand the feelings and perception of those who live in Alaska, but the reality is that if AS were making money hand over fist up there you'd see the competition entering the market full-force.

Well - I don't really agree with that  Wink

Because let's take KTN for our first instance - Taquan tried to service the market a few years back with a Cessna Citation 2X daily. What did AS do? Immediately slash the fares to crazy levels (were talking 200 dollars roundtrip) until the day after Taquan killed the service and then the fares were higher that ever. They also canceled Taquan's interline agreement and jumpseat privliges while the service lasted. Bit extreme??

What about JNU and it's short lived DL service? Same thing...another airline enters the market and AS cuts the prices to below market levels and then raises the fares in another Alaska (state) market to cover the difference until the competition goes away and then the locals are back to paying extreme fares for minimal service....

Sorry...I just couldn't let this thread die....
It takes nerves of steel to stay neurotic. — Herb Kelleher
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:11 pm

Hey TZSFO,

I agree with your post 100% It looks like the same stuff happened to MarkAir here in Nome, that happened to Taquan in KTN. Alaska can be very ruthless when it comes to protecting there monopoly here in Alaska.

Adam
 
HikesWithEyes
Posts: 623
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:54 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:07 pm

Quoting TZSFO (Reply 34):
What about JNU and it's short lived DL service? Same thing...another airline enters the market and AS cuts the prices to below market levels and then raises the fares in another Alaska (state) market to cover the difference until the competition goes away and then the locals are back to paying extreme fares for minimal service....

DL was also known for making one shot at an arrival in foggy JNU and
then hightailing it off to FAI.
AS has invested a significant amount of money in RNP/GPS technology
that makes it much more likely that JNU will get its daily flight schedule.
AS also does a lot of backtracking and flagstops in the Southeast, things
that cost money (crew,fuel issues).
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2004 5:47 pm

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:38 pm

TZSFO.... Taquan

Very close to actuality... I am happy to see some actually was watching this effort!!!
Taquan actually spent a few million going from a 135 to a 121 carrier and was successful and became AirOne.... I was there and was responsible for JNU, SIT, WRG and PSG training and I was the JNU station Manager and Northern AS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE Marketing Manager.... The original idea was for us to feed AS in KTN and JNU because AS was wanting out of the SIT, WRG,PSG and GST markets with their 737 service.... Well we were very successful and got sideways with AS and they squashed us!!!... Re-niged of the code share agreement(we ran out of $$$!!!)The service was with JS132's not Citations.... Cool little A/C and the FAA actually added more personnel to JNU to help this effort... It was very cool to watch a 121 being born.... not so cool to kill it though..

TZSFO...
What about JNU and it's short lived DL service? Same thing...another airline enters the market and AS cuts the prices to below market levels and then raises the fares in another Alaska (state) market to cover the difference until the competition goes away and then the locals are back to paying extreme fares for minimal service....

Sorry...I just couldn't let this thread die....

Again very close... as I was there to see this!!!! The "short lived DL" service was another example of how DL was unable to compete in the west... after the WA/DL merger the seasoned WA pilots seniority was less than the DL pilot roster and as such we lost the captains who could fly up here... we would fly over one too many times and lost our business to AS...

HikesWithEyes....
DL was also known for making one shot at an arrival in foggy JNU and
then hightailing it off to FAI.
AS has invested a significant amount of money in RNP/GPS technology
that makes it much more likely that JNU will get its daily flight schedule.
AS also does a lot of backtracking and flagstops in the Southeast, things
that cost money (crew,fuel issues).

Don't forget DL "hightailing" to KTN and SEA going south..!!!! It was sad to see the business Western built up go by-by... Reason for one shot approaches was DL had no back up A/C like AS had (has)....

I have worked in JNU with no less than 4 121 carriers doing battle with AS.... WC,WA,DL and AirOne... and AS handed us our ass all 4 times... they are quite excellent... and I thought I would pass on some insider information...!!

Welcome to my RU list TXSFO and HikesWithEyes
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:33 pm

Alot of the reason why DL pulled out and never returned to JNU was that they had insufficient navigation equipment to tackle JNU's extreme weather conditions. Paul Bowers, the airport manager in JNU at the time, once told me that alot of times the aircraft would just continue on to FAI and arrange to have pax taken to JNU on AS.

I was in Rapid City in the summer of 2002, and I noticed that the DL ticket counter had a route map on the wall that still depicted JNU service. Anybody know if it is still there?
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: AS Suspends Sunday Service To SCC

Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:39 pm

Oops...sorry Lono...you had already mentioned that.

Has anybody up here ever taken the Air North service out of FAI or JNU? I would do it in a heartbeat, if they flew to Yellowknife. I would rather drive to Whitehorse.

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