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Braybuddy
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2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:24 pm

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y193/Braybuddy/A380s.jpg

Sorry about the poor quality of the pic, but this is a shot of the second and third A380s this morning (12/9) at Toulouse. One clearly has the Airbus house tail, the other is a white tail. I distinctly remember a Singapore tail being unloaded off a Super Guppy some months back. Seeing that Singapore is going to be the first customer to fly the aircraft, why was this not put on one of the above aircraft?
 
Alessandro
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:49 pm

Cool pic, I heard that the 2nd A380 is supposed to fly in october, anyone can confirm this?
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JBLUA320
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:52 pm

Maybe they have the 3rd one in primer so they can paint it directly into the colors of its future operator?

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Udo
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 2):
Maybe they have the 3rd one in primer so they can paint it directly into the colors of its future operator?

What about the old rumors to paint an A380 in Emirates colors for the Dubai Air Show?


Regards
Udo

[Edited 2005-09-12 15:55:36]
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HAWK21M
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:55 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
Seeing that Singapore is going to be the first customer to fly the aircraft, why was this not put on one of the above aircraft

Yeah.What happened to that Vertical Stablizer in SQ colours.
regds
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Geo772
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:56 pm

If I were an airline executive I don't think I would want an early test aircraft to have my airlines livery. Later on during the test flight program when the final test aircraft will later go onto commercial service then I can imagine them in the final carriers livery.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
Thorben
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:58 pm

According to the production list they're both not reserved for any customer yet.

Quoting Udo (Reply 3):
What about the old rumors to paint an A380 in Emirates colors for the Dubai Air Show?

That's what I was thinking, too. Easier to paint it into Emirates colors when it is white.
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LordHowe
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:12 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Thread starter):
that Singapore is going to be the first customer to fly the aircraft, why was this not put on one of the above aircraft?

Because SQ gets nr. 4!

Regards,
LordHowe
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eha
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:48 am

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 7):
Because SQ gets nr. 4!

What do you mean by Nr 4 ?

MSN4 and MSN2 are next to be handed over to Flight test dept, second half of this month.

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EDDM
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:06 am

Funny.. why didn't they take down the "A380 Generation" poster after the first flight ceremony?


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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting LordHowe (Reply 7):
Because SQ gets nr. 4!

Nope, to put this straight, SIA will have MSN 003, 005, 006, 008...

MSN 004 & 002 & 007 will be next on the flight tests, and should be handed over to ETD after some months. A will keep only MSN 001.
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shamrock350
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:23 am

EDDM, what do you mean why can't the poster stay up?
 
LordHowe
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 10):
Nope, to put this straight, SIA will have MSN 003, 005, 006, 008...

MSN 004 & 002 & 007 will be next on the flight tests, and should be handed over to ETD after some months. A will keep only MSN 001.

Thanks Knoxibus for correction!

I thought that I had read somewhere that nr. 4 would be SQs. So Nr. 3 is Singapore Airlines - OK!

Regards,
LordHowe
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gigneil
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 4):
Yeah.What happened to that Vertical Stablizer in SQ colours.

It will go on MSN 003

Quoting EDDM (Reply 9):
Funny.. why didn't they take down the "A380 Generation" poster after the first flight ceremony?

Why would they?

N
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting Eha (Reply 8):
MSN4 and MSN2 are next to be handed over to Flight test dept, second half of this month.

If that's the case, why the white tail on one of the aircraft?
 
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 5):
If I were an airline executive I don't think I would want an early test aircraft to have my airlines livery

That is the exact opposite attitude that UA had during 777 testing. Of the five 777s involved in the testing procedures, one was painted in house Boeing colors, while the other four I believe were in the full United paint scheme. United tried to milk the media coverage of the plane as free advertising. People would see a beautiful brand new plane landing and then see the United logo on the side of it and hopefully make the conclusion that they would want to fly United to get to fly on such a wonderful new plane. Think of how many photos have been published of the A380. Wouldn't you want the free advertising saying that you would be the one to operate this brand new amazing piece of modern machinery?
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 14):
If that's the case, why the white tail on one of the aircraft?

It just isn't done yet.

N
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
It just isn't done yet.

N

Yet the other one, which hasn't been painted, has the Airbus house colours on its tail. I'm confused!
 
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
Yet the other one, which hasn't been painted, has the Airbus house colours on its tail. I'm confused!

Im sure I read above that MSN 003 will be going to SQ. Also the poster stated that 002 is an Airbus flight test aircraft. Why do people not read earlier posts.

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Braybuddy
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 18):
Why do people not read earlier posts.

If you'd read my post I wondered why, if MSN 004 and 002 are the next two, and both of them are Airbus test aircraft, as Knoxibus above says, why are the two tails different? Gigneil says the white tail isn't done yet, so why does the unpainted one have a finished tail, yet the white one doesn't. Okay, the tail on the unpainted one was obviously finished before mounting, yet the other one wasn't.

On a (slightly) related topic, I've often seen pics of unpainted aircraft, mostly 737s with painted rudders. A few people have asked about this and the standard reply was that the rudders need to be fully painted beforehand for balance purposes. Yet in the Airbus factory, none of the unpainted aircraft we saw had painted rudders.
 
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 17):
Yet the other one, which hasn't been painted, has the Airbus house colours on its tail. I'm confused!

Lets say you are the C.E.O for SQ, and you as being a launch customer for a totally new aircraft type. Would you want the plane flying around in flight testing wearing your livery? What if the plane were to crash? Do you know what would be all over the news? A SQ A380 has crashed, even though it was not a revenue flight and you have not taken delivery of your first plane yet. Most of the flying public is morons, they would not know that this was a flight test, they would assume SQ flies unsafe planes. Can you say bad press? Just as airlines are quick to pull/blackout their markings off of a crashed plane, why? They don't want to have the picture posted all over showing one of their down airliners. Now from what I gather, the one tail that has the Airbus house colors on it is staying with Airbus, the others will be going to various airlines once the flight testing is complete. At that time, you will see the liverys put on.
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 19):
mostly 737s with painted rudders.

My guess on that is the 737 line is a established line that they know the in's and out's of while the A380 is a new design type and as you know you have to crawl before you walk taking one step at a time. Down the line I am sure you will see painted rudders on A380's
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Braybuddy
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:06 am

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 20):
Would you want the plane flying around in flight testing wearing your livery?

According to RoseFlyer above, UA did just that with the 777. I'd be inclined to agree with him: airlines are gluttons for exposure. It's extremely unlikely a test aircraft would crash nowadays so they were obviously willing to take a chance.

Quoting AAFLT1871 (Reply 21):
A380 is a new design type and as you know you have to crawl before you walk taking one step at a time.

The ones we saw were A340s and A320s.

[Edited 2005-09-13 01:26:56]
 
Ruscoe
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:17 am

Unless it has changed I read that MSN 001 and 002 are not going to be rewired, so if this is the case 002 will not be able to go to an airline either.,

MSN 004 is suppossed to be the first "production standard" aircraft with enhanced RR engines, and non steel wheels. If this is still the case what happens with MSN 003?

Ruscoe
 
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:51 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 22):
The ones we saw were A340s and A320s.

When I toured the A330/340 facility in TLS in March '04, there were painted tails on most of the planes under construction in the bays (incidentally, I think I saw EgyptAir's first A330 under construction Big grin). Not all of them, but most of them had painted tails. To someone who knows very little about the manufacturing process, it seemed to me that there was no rhyme or reason. My best guess is that it might have something to do with availability of the paint shop.
 
RedChili
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
Wouldn't you want the free advertising saying that you would be the one to operate this brand new amazing piece of modern machinery?

But why should Airbus give up the possibility of advertising themselves for free? I think that most answers concerning this question simply forget that Airbus wants to use the A380 to tell the world that we're making the biggest airplane in the world. Flying the test A380s in Airbus colors gives them a lot of good publicity, and I don't see any reason why they should give that possibility to SQ instead.

And by the way, the only test frame flying so far will remain in the Airbus fleet anyway. The next three frames to fly will, I believe, go to Etihad, and I don't think that Etihad would agree to paint their planes in the SQ colors.
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knoxibus
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:39 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 25):
and I don't think that Etihad would agree to paint their planes in the SQ colors

Well as long as they belong to Airbus, I don't see why for the time being ETD can say yea or nay to which color these a/c should be painted in.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 23):
so if this is the case 002 will not be able to go to an airline either.,

I still confirm for the moment that MSN 0002, 0004 and 0007 (and then 0009) will go to ETD.

As for the tails, MSN 0003 already has the SQ tail in the final assembly line IIRC.

MSN 0002 will do the early long flights, so I guess it is necessary to have the Airbus logos on it for publicity when it will fly around the world from April next year.

As for MSN 0004, and since there is the appearance of the A380 in Dubai and Australia before year end, they might be able to put a quick paint job as mentioned above, to please one or two customers.

Generally, with Airbus, the tails are painted horizontally before fitting on the aircraft.
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Gary2880
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:48 pm

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 10):
MSN 004 & 002 & 007 will be next on the flight tests, and should be handed over to ETD after some months. A will keep only MSN 001.

is it cheaper for ETD to buy the test A380s that airbus have had a play with instead of brand new ones? only ask as thats the only reason i can see that Etihad would get the first few ?

someone correct me!
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astuteman
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting BOS2LAF (Reply 24):
When I toured the A330/340 facility in TLS in March '04, there were painted tails on most of the planes under construction in the bays (incidentally, I think I saw EgyptAir's first A330 under construction ). Not all of them, but most of them had painted tails. To someone who knows very little about the manufacturing process, it seemed to me that there was no rhyme or reason. My best guess is that it might have something to do with availability of the paint shop.



Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 26):
Generally, with Airbus, the tails are painted horizontally before fitting on the aircraft.

From a production engineering viewpoint, it is far easier to manhandle, and paint a tail (particularly one as immense as the A380) whilst it is horizontal, and definitely before it is attached to the aircraft. I'm guessing the tail arrives at the assembly line as an outfitted module, with many systems already installed.

Don't know if this applies to aircraft, but in Submarine construction, we are frequently required to pressure test structures (low pressure structures...), before they are painted, in order to prove the leak tightness before we've "bunged up the leaks with paint...". I've no idea if that's why the aircraft fuse sections get painted much later, but its a possibility. Anyone able to comment?
A
 
jush
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:12 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 15):
That is the exact opposite attitude that UA had during 777 testing. Of the five 777s involved in the testing procedures, one was painted in house Boeing colors, while the other four I believe were in the full United paint scheme. United tried to milk the media coverage of the plane as free advertising. People would see a beautiful brand new plane landing and then see the United logo on the side of it and hopefully make the conclusion that they would want to fly United to get to fly on such a wonderful new plane. Think of how many photos have been published of the A380. Wouldn't you want the free advertising saying that you would be the one to operate this brand new amazing piece of modern machinery?

I'll second that. That is almost free advertisement and the risk of losing reputation is quite small so why not do this. I hope to see the A380 in Emirates livery in Dubai. Would be rather beautiful.

Regards
jush
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eha
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:06 pm

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 14):

If that's the case, why the white tail on one of the aircraft?

Frankly I do not know, but I know for sure, that MSN 04 and MSN 02 are to be handed over to Flight test dpt, this month.

E.
 
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breiz
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RE: 2nd & 3rd A380s - Why The Different Paint Jobs?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:48 am

Some possible explanations :

- F-WXXL is prototype no. 2 (c/n 002)and as such is most probably already subject to modifications. Painting it straight away would have only delay the start of these modifications.
F-WXXL will be no.3 to fly and will go to Hamburg/Finkenwerder to receive standard cabin interior.
It will then be used to test the cabin systems.
Painting it is no hurry.

- F-WWDD is prototype no. 3 (c/n 004), but no. 2 to fly (confusing hey?).
As it will fly around as much as F-WWOW, Airbus plans may be to apply the right stickers when going to Dubai, Sydney or wherever there is a customer.
Hence the white bird.
Well maybe.

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