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clickhappy
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9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:30 am

Does anyone have a list of other flights that may have been hijacked on 9/11, but were grounded by the FAA?

Here is a list, if anyone has any more info on these, or others, please post

American Airlines Flight 43
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1550993.stm

Knives and box cutters were found on two separate canceled Delta Airlines
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,175953,00.html

Two knives were found on an Air Canada flight
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/15/inv.air.canada/index.html

American Airlines Flight 160
A box cutter knife was found under a seat cushion on American Airlines Flight 160, a 767 that would have flown from San Diego to New York on the morning of 9/11 but for the air ban. [Chicago Tribune, 9/23/01]

CO flights?
Knives of the same type used in the successful hijackings were found taped to the backs of fold-down trays on a Continental Airlines flight from Newark. [Guardian, 9/19/01]
 
OPNLguy
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:35 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
Does anyone have a list of other flights that may have been hijacked on 9/11, but were grounded by the FAA?

Only one I was aware of was this one, not by FAA, but by the dispatcher and captain of UA23...

Link in this message/thread...

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ral_aviation/read.main/2321794/#29
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
GOAQ
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:21 pm

Where was AA Flt. 43 from Boston going to that morning. I don't remember a flight 43 out of Boston. Unless it was a transatlantic flight. Paris? London?

If I remember back than, all transcon flights on AA, DL, UA were widebodies, 767s. I was working AA flt.195 the morning of 9/11. Which was pushed back a little before 9a.m. and after flt.11 hit the WTC. Our 767-300 3-class that morning to SFO, which was an equipment substitution was a light load.

Only the man above will know if that flight had any hijackers or any of the other transcon flights for that matter. Thank goodness the FAA grounded all flights soon after that morning. If not I may not be here typing this response.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:09 am

I personally dispute the suspision for AA Flt 160 as Al Queda's plan was to crash aircraft with full or close to full fuel. But that's just me.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
c680
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:48 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 3):
I personally dispute the suspision for AA Flt 160 as Al Queda's plan was to crash aircraft with full or close to full fuel. But that's just me.

Who ever said they would crash it in NYC? - plenty of good targets in California too!
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wdleiser
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting C680 (Reply 4):

But it has been stated that their plan was to fly planes FULL of fuel to cause the most damage. That is why they got the widebody longhauls that were early flights which had less people but plenty of fuel.
 
c680
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:08 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 5):

According to the first Message, AA160 was a B767 From San Diego to New York.
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FlyingTexan
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:21 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Thread starter):
CO flights?

IIRC, a Continental mainline flight EWR-SAT diverted to STL. Several got off, boarded Amtrak to San Antonio and were later arrested with some obscene amount of cash and box cutters.

Please correct and/or add any info if anyone knows.
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OPNLguy
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:26 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 7):

IIRC, a Continental mainline flight EWR-SAT diverted to STL. Several got off, boarded Amtrak to San Antonio and were later arrested with some obscene amount of cash and box cutters.

I seem to recall a flight (into STL?) and some guys ending up in Ft. Worth via train. Same incident? Some details are fuzzy after four years....
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
RobertS975
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:34 am

I have never heard any factual followup to those initial stories that other aircraft were likely to have been hijacked that day. It would have been a simple matter to identify those passengers on flights that were cancelled that never asked for their money back and never asked to be rebooked on another flight after the planes started flying again.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:40 am

How would it have been "a simple matter" if they were using fake ID and assumed identities?
 
planespotting
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:11 pm

yeah, like OPNLguy said, i've only heard of UAL23, which grounded itself in Newark (i think), and had a gaggle of guys run off the flight when it got back to the gate...
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Bluewave 707
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:22 pm

Wasn't there supposed to be a 2nd wave of attacks on the west coast, and midwest?

By the way, before 11 Sep, it was legal to carry a 3-inch blade (or less) pocket knife on board. Not anymore ...
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NWrr
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting GOAQ (Reply 2):
If I remember back than, all transcon flights on AA, DL, UA were widebodies, 767s.

Most were, but not all. AA77 was a 757.
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LH423
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:02 pm

Quoting GOAQ (Reply 2):
Where was AA Flt. 43 from Boston going to that morning. I don't remember a flight 43 out of Boston. Unless it was a transatlantic flight. Paris? London?

I believe it was AA154, the morning LHR flight. Rumours have circulated that the plane had cancelled that morning and there was a large group of Arab men that were very angry that the flight was cancelled. Of course, none of this is substantiated and I suppose we'll never know but that has been on the table for some time. At the time, AA154/155 was still operated by a B767-323ER.

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brettbrett21
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 12):

By the way, before 11 Sep, it was legal to carry a 3-inch blade (or less) pocket knife on board. Not anymore ...

That is unbelievable. How can people be so stupid!?! Really, that is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Was this just confined to the US or were there similar rules in Europe and the rest of the world?

Brett
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GOAQ
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:38 am

To NWrr:

I should have been more clear, I meant all transcons out of Boston. Sorry for the mix up.

LH423:

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't think there was an AA flt.43 out of Boston. I do remember the LHR flight that morning though. Again thanks for verifying.

GOAQ
 
spacecadet
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:07 am

Wasn't there supposed to be a 2nd wave of attacks on the west coast, and midwest?


No, that was one of the many myths that still surround 9/11. There is no evidence of a second wave of attacks. It wouldn't even make sense to think there could be; the terrorists themselves planned all of the attacks to be simultaneous because they knew once they started, all flights would be grounded and a flight 93-type scenario could happen to any planes still in the air (the tapes of flight 93 demonstrate pretty clearly that the terrorists had planned for the possibility that they might have to abandon their targets).

In fact there's no real evidence to support the idea that any of the other flights mentioned so far were supposed to be used by terrorists. As others have pointed out, it was legal to carry knives and box cutters on airplanes at the time and it's no big stretch to think that a few passengers on a few of the thousands of planes around the country would have left one or two on board at some point. I remember reading at the time that these box cutters were "hidden" on these planes, but the way it was described seemed to me more likely that they just fell out of carry-on bags either in the overhead bins or under the seat and got lodged in places that were likely to be missed by the cleaning crew. Those blades could have been on those planes for months, if not years.

In the video tapes that leaked out of meetings bin Laden had with his underlings after the attacks, no mention is made of any other flights either. There is no statement to the effect of "man, that was great, but if only those five other flights had gotten off the ground..." There is only celebration on those tapes, in fact bin Laden himself says on one of them that the attack caused greater destruction than anyone hoped.

There's not much doubt in my mind that there were only supposed to be four flights. There were probably supposed to be 20 hijackers instead of 19, but they still managed to get all four flights up and three of them unfortunately managed to hit their targets. That's bad enough, why do some people almost seem to have a need to believe it was supposed to be even worse?
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daron4000
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:37 am

Quoting Brettbrett21 (Reply 15):
That is unbelievable. How can people be so stupid!?! Really, that is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Was this just confined to the US or were there similar rules in Europe and the rest of the world?

Actually, when I was on a BA flight intra-Europe 757 in the very late 90's, the captain let my go into the cockpit....DURING THE FLIGHT! Yes, I'm being serious, that is how lax the laws were. It seemed so cool to me, and now, it only seems stupid, especially when the airlines were preaching safety, safety, safety.
 
AA54Heavy
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 18):
Actually, when I was on a BA flight intra-Europe 757 in the very late 90's, the captain let my go into the cockpit....DURING THE FLIGHT! Yes, I'm being serious, that is how lax the laws were. It seemed so cool to me, and now, it only seems stupid, especially when the airlines were preaching safety, safety, safety.

Same thing happened to me, in Summer 2001, I flew PHX-LGW...I asked the flight attendant if I could visit the cockpit upon arrival in LGW, and she said sure thing. Just prior to our descent into London the flight attendant came back to my seat and asked me to follow her. She took me to the cockpit, and I sat in the jump seat and chatted with the reserve captain while the pilot/FO were making their preparations for arrival. I took pictures and everything and chilled there for like 10 minutes or so...very cool, but very much in perspective now.
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CHI787ORD
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting Bluewave 707 (Reply 12):
Wasn't there supposed to be a 2nd wave of attacks on the west coast, and midwest?

I remember hearing in 2001 that the Air Canada flight from YYZ-NYC was planned to hit the Sears Tower in Chicago. However the flight was canceled and the supposed terrorists fled the country somehow.

I've also heard that Flight 93 was originally suppose to hit the Sears Tower as well, but there was a flight plan mixup by the terrorists.
 
F9Fan
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:51 pm

There were rumors that there were plans to hijack as many as ten planes and crash them into targets in Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Seattle as well as New York and Washington, DC, with an eleventh plane to be hijacked and after it landed safely, the hijackers would release a statement and let everyone go. However, Al Quida realized that this plan was way to grandiose and logistically difficult to complete, so they went with the scaled back version of hijacking four planes and crashing them into the World Trade Center, the White House, and the capitol building (the Pentagon was an alternate target because the White House is very difficult to spot from the air because of the foliage nearby.)

There was a report that a plane bound for SAT that was diverted to STL where everyone then boarded an Amtrak train for the completion of the trip had a couple people arrested in what was thought to be another possible hijack team. However, these people were later cleared and released. There was also a DL flight from BOS to SFO (I think) that was confused with UA 93 and was assumed hijacked, but it landed safely in CLE. It was later determined this was just a case of mistaken identity.
 
hawk44
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:42 pm

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 17):
There were probably supposed to be 20 hijackers instead of 19

This is correct the 20th hijacker in reality was a man named Ramzi bin al-Shibh who was not able to get a visa into the United States.

I wonder what flight Zacarias Moussaoui was supposed to be on, was he supposed to fly on 9/11 or was he supposed to be part of an attack later on?

Quoting F9fan (Reply 21):
There was also a DL flight from BOS to SFO (I think) that was confused with UA 93 and was assumed hijacked

Not 100% sure of the destination or the origin but I do remember that fighters were going to be scrambled for a DL flight which was being mistaken for flight 93

Hawk44
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Adam T.
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:22 pm

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there planned attacks on London on Sept. 11 as well.
 
ba757
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RE: 9/11 Flights That Did Not Take Off

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting Adam T. (Reply 23):
I seem to recall reading somewhere that there planned attacks on London on Sept. 11 as well.

Indeed, I remember that too.

Two BA flights from LHR to MAN wasn't it? 757? Common cockpit with the aircraft used in the American attacks.

Adam