JoFMO
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CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:11 am

Just read on luchtzak.be that CSA will give up EWR and consolidate their flights in JFK.

Why that? Hasn't their SkyTeam partner CO a hub in EWR?

Is Prague served from any other SkyTeam hub in North America?
 
Avianca
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CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:38 am

Quoting JoFMO (Thread starter):
Just read on luchtzak.be that CSA will give up EWR and consolidate their flights in JFK.

Why that? Hasn't their SkyTeam partner CO a hub in EWR?

Is Prague served from any other SkyTeam hub in North America?

sounds strange...any more information regarding this?
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dutchjet
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CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:50 am

This is a surprise move, will CSA consolidate their NYC operations at JFK and work more closely with DL?

There are strong rumors that CO is looking at launching EWR-Prague with the next round of European expansion.......some thought that the route would be included for the Summer 2005 schedule (did not happen) and now the rumor is that Prague will be a new destination for the Summer 2006 schedule.....flown with the 757-200 with Winglets.

Is it possible that CSA will drop their own flight into EWR and code-share with CO on its new EWR-PRG flight? That could explains what is going on here.....CSA will concentrate on JFK and CO will fly the EWR route. Maybe this is a clue that CO will in fact launch service to PRG in the near future.
 
JoFMO
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CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:08 am

 
MAH4546
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:45 am

Not the first time this has happened. CSA dropped EWR after 9/11, and resumed it about a year or so later.
a.
 
flyguy1
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There are strong rumors that CO is looking at launching EWR-Prague with the next round of European expansion.......some thought that the route would be included for the Summer 2005 schedule (did not happen) and now the rumor is that Prague will be a new destination for the Summer 2006 schedule.....flown with the 757-200 with Winglets.

Is it possible that CSA will drop their own flight into EWR and code-share with CO on its new EWR-PRG flight? That could explains what is going on here.....CSA will concentrate on JFK and CO will fly the EWR route. Maybe this is a clue that CO will in fact launch service to PRG in the near future.

Will JFK get extra frequencies due to this? I'm sure the EWR spotters are not happy. The last thing they want is another CO 757.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
flyyul
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:03 am

These are going to increase Montreal to 4 weekly next summer, and 5 weekly to Toronto.

This is confirmed and loaded in res systems.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
There are strong rumors that CO is looking at launching EWR-Prague with the next round of European expansion.......some thought that the route would be included for the Summer 2005 schedule (did not happen) and now the rumor is that Prague will be a new destination for the Summer 2006 schedule.....flown with the 757-200 with Winglets.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think 757-200s range would allow it... From what I remember watching 757s range charts, the farthest they can go with full pax load + reserves is western Germany...

edit: just took another look at the range circle from NY posted on Boeing's website... It might actually make it if it's fitted with winglets. Is it still going to make the westbound flight to EWR though??

[Edited 2005-09-13 03:16:50]
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STT757
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:09 am

Strong possibility CO will be announcing EWR-Prague in the next couple of months.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Not the first time this has happened. CSA dropped EWR after 9/11, and resumed it about a year or so later.

CSA quit EWR first time not because of 9/11 but because they joined SkyTeam and as a result of that their c/s partner for intra-US flights changed from CO to DL (CO was not ST member back then).

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 2):
Is it possible that CSA will drop their own flight into EWR and code-share with CO on its new EWR-PRG flight? That could explains what is going on here.....CSA will concentrate on JFK and CO will fly the EWR route. Maybe this is a clue that CO will in fact launch service to PRG in the near future.

That sounds very likely. CSA seems to be not exactly rushing its decision to go ahead with badly needed replacement of its long-haul fleet - despite being in much better financial shape then LOT.
 
MAH4546
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:36 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 9):

CSA quit EWR first time not because of 9/11 but because they joined SkyTeam and as a result of that their c/s partner for intra-US flights changed from CO to DL (CO was not ST member back then).

All I said was that CSA dropped EWR after 9/11, which they did. I never stated any reason for it, but thanks for the info. However, I have a hard time believing that 9/11 did not have something to do with it. CSA re-started EWR even before CO joined skyTeam.
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HT
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:20 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 7):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think 757-200s range would allow it... From what I remember watching 757s range charts, the farthest they can go with full pax load + reserves is western Germany...

edit: just took another look at the range circle from NY posted on Boeing's website... It might actually make it if it's fitted with winglets. Is it still going to make the westbound flight to EWR though??

With EWR-PRG @ 4095 mi being even 115 mi longer than EWR-TXL, which already has faced problems with range on CO´s B752W´s, it can be assumed that service to PRG will be even more challenging (especially on the westbound flight). Even if CO has a good staff at EWR who re-books delayed pax (due to a tech stop en-route) quite efficiently, personally I "wouldn´t be amused" as a pax if this happens frequently (but unscheduled).
-HT
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panamair
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:19 pm

If OK's intentions are to consolidate operations in the NYC area, forcing them to choose either EWR or JFK, then JFK would be the obvious choice because of the closer ties with DL. As already mentioned, their domestic US codeshares are with DL, and OK and DL did obtain Anti-Trust Immunity (ATI) as part of the overall SkyTeam ATI agreement among AF, AZ, OK, DL, and KE.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:42 pm

Quoting STT757:
"Strong possibility CO will be announcing EWR-Prague in the next couple of months."

I was wondering when DL or CO would be doing this. It seems CS's A310's underserve the USA-PRG market a bit.
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JAGflyer
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:19 am

Why would CSA need to operate an A310 to JFK and EWR? Can the people travelling to/thru PRG not go to JFK? The two airports are not that far apart. How good were the loads on CSA for the EWR-PRG route anyway?
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LH459
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 14):
Why would CSA need to operate an A310 to JFK and EWR? Can the people travelling to/thru PRG not go to JFK? The two airports are not that far apart. How good were the loads on CSA for the EWR-PRG route anyway?

EWR-PRG was taking a lot of connecting pax through the CO feed, which is much stronger than the DL feed at JFK. From what I've seen in the CRS, both flights seem to do very well!
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LRGT
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting HT (Reply 11):
With EWR-PRG @ 4095 mi being even 115 mi longer than EWR-TXL, which already has faced problems with range on CO´s B752W´s, it can be assumed that service to PRG will be even more challenging (especially on the westbound flight). Even if CO has a good staff at EWR who re-books delayed pax (due to a tech stop en-route) quite efficiently, personally I "wouldn´t be amused" as a pax if this happens frequently (but unscheduled).
-HT

I think it is time for CO to bite the bullet and come out with a 2nd seating arrangement for the 767-200's.......as we all know they seat LESS than the 757-200's because of a huge BusinessFirst cabin, but PRG and certain longer range markets have very week premium traffic and thus favor the 757-200's, even though they can't fly that far! They need to realize that these routes NEED a 767, so just re-configure a few to serve these markets!
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STT757
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:48 am

CO's 767-200s are perfectly suited for routes like Geneva and Zurich where CO has high demand for Business First Seats.
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LRGT
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:04 am

Quoting Lrgt (Reply 16):
so just re-configure a few to serve these markets!

I was only suggesting re-configuration of a few to operate these long flights they are futilely trying to do with a 757
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CO2BGR
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:51 am

The CO 762 Actually seat more than the B/F 752's, which is the alternative flying internationally, but less than the domestic 752s
B/F 752 16/156 Total 172
dom 752 24/159 total 182
B/F 762 25/149 total 174
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tsnamm
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:46 am

PRG is a good cargo market...hopefully CO scheduling would allocate a widebody(767) if they decide to go...as far as I know DME is the next European dest, but things change quick...CSA may want to deploy their A310 to another city, considering EWR/JFK the same dest...
 
777gk
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:19 am

Our longhaul 757s are operating at dispatch reliability rates in excess of 98%. Hardly futile.

The rare instances of fuel stops are results of irregular operations (weather, traffic management, etc.) which affect all inbound Europe-US flights, and forces even 767s and A330s down on occasion. This is an exception not the rule.

The 767-200s operate on premium-intensive routes in which we generally sell most of our BusinessFirst seats. Cargo is also a key consideration, but if cargo was the driving force behind viability of a route, chances are we would find a way to get a 777 in there so long as pax levels and yields were sustainable. As we know, the '67 is not an ideal freight hauler. Prague, while surely capable of generating solid yields, is hardly a Geneva or Brussels, therefore EWR-PRG would be a strong 757 candidate for the next round of transatlantic expansion.

Also note that the 757s, starting next year, will operate with a 16/159 configuration for a total of 175 seats, one more than the 762.

[Edited 2005-09-14 02:21:36]
 
tsnamm
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting 777gk (Reply 21):
As we know, the '67 is not an ideal freight hauler. Prague, while surely capable of generating solid yields, is hardly a Geneva or Brussels, therefore EWR-PRG would be a strong 757 candidate for the next round of transatlantic expansion.

its certainly more ideal than any narrow body a/c...GVA generates very little cargo biz, especially export...PRG would definitely be better...
 
LRGT
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting 777gk (Reply 21):
The 767-200s operate on premium-intensive routes in which we generally sell most of our BusinessFirst seats.

Do you disagree or agree with my statement that CO needs to have a separate 767-200 seating arrangement for routes that are not as premium-intensive, but that the 757 can't reach?

You do have this already with the -400's (smart).



LT
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Checo77
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:35 am

A really surprising news. Pretty weird to see CSA drop a market with so big connection chances to US, Lat Am and Caribean. Definitely, CO will start a service to PRG, since there would be high demand for it.
As another matter, CSA should change their A310s NOW for a newer technology. Their financial situation is extremely stable, so why waiting?
Hope to see a CO 762 in PRG soon.
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Adam
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RCS763AV
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:25 pm

I always thought it was weird that LO and OK flew to both airports. Its a very costly manner. AV did it and now they only fly to JFK for costs. Finally OK got organized.

Also, I think CO asked them to go to JFK so they could launch EWR-PRG...just a thought.
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: CSA Gives Up EWR

Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 25):
I always thought it was weird that LO and OK flew to both airports. Its a very costly manner.

CSA's entire long-haul "network" does not make too much sense. YUL+YYZ, JFK, too bad the tsunami killed the CMB+MLE (via DXB) route, which was quite successful.
They allocated 2 out of their 4 A310s for winter charter flights to South America and the A310 was used a lot this summer for medium haul charter flights because the delivery of one of the A321 was delayed.