SBE727
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:38 pm

Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:13 am

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me if say a croatian carrier like Air Adriatic or Dubrovnik Airlines would be able to base their aircraft in the uk and operate to other destinations within europe and not just croatia.

Iknow there are some rules on this but not sure what countries are allowed to do this.

Anyone give some info

cheers

sbe727
 
smitten
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:41 pm

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:03 pm

AFAIK..
On a charter basis they could do that, as the company that charters the aircraft decides where they send the aircraft.

If they wanted to operate on a scheduled basis, that would depend on the "freedom" rights between the two countries involved.

Correct me if I am wrong though...

Mark
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:11 pm

Even QF operates regular charters to BCN, IST even Venice during the Summer months. I think it is for a cruise operator.
 
bananaboy
Posts: 1466
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:14 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 2):
Even QF operates regular charters to BCN, IST even Venice during the Summer months. I think it is for a cruise operator.

Of course... that would be for Royal Caribbean.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:41 pm

The best example is probably Air Malta which bases 3 A320s at BHX, BRS and MAN.

Malta is now in the EU, however Croatia is not yet, so that may have something to do with it.

Regards

Mike
 
cornish
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:49 pm

As Croatia is a non-EU carrier, it would not be able to base aircraft in the UK and operate SCHEDULED routes to other countries - even Croatia. Once Croatia joins the EU, then it would be able to operate scheduled services to anywhere within the EU, but not outside - unless of course some sort of EU wide new open skies agreements had been agreed with other non-EU countries by then.
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Orion737
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:52 pm

What about the lovely, highly reliable and superior services provided by Viking airlines out of East Midands?

7 hour delay and a £3.00 cheese sandwich anyone?
 
ollyhuk
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 1:45 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting Bananaboy (Reply 3):
Of course... that would be for Royal Caribbean.

It was for Princess Cruises when we flew from LHR to Venice to join Golden Princess
 
bananaboy
Posts: 1466
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:58 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting Ollyhuk (Reply 7):
It was for Princess Cruises when we flew from LHR to Venice to join Golden Princess

My mistake.. though I am pretty sure QF were used by Royal Caribbean over the past few years as well.

Mark
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
mhodgson
Posts: 4673
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:47 pm

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:40 pm

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
What about the lovely, highly reliable and superior services provided by Viking airlines out of East Midands?

They are EU based (Swedish IIRC) and operate on behalf of air Scandic who I believe have a UK AOC anyway.
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speedbirdegjj
Posts: 401
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:01 pm

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:56 pm

I remember when this YAK 42  Wow! was based at Manchester for the summer season, possibly 1995 or 96 IIRC.


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Orion737
Posts: 3044
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:25 pm

Me too. I remember the Yak42 and the furore which greeted its introduction on Manchester holiday flights.

I was studying for my COTOP exam at the time and I remember reading inthe TTG about the tour operators who were going mad because they thought they were getting a GBAirways 732 for their charter passengers and the seat broker had seconded the Yak in at the last minute.

The Yak did not make for a particularly attractive alternative for either the tour ops or their passengers. I remember a quote from the seat broker who said that the Yak was introduced as a temporary measure due to lack of suitable aircraft and was not a 'get rich quick scheme'

He also said that the Yak had operated 'tolerably well' on charter flights from Man.

I probably have the cutting from the time somewhere with my course notes as I followed the story closley at the time.

Fancy going on your holidays from Manchester and finding a Yak 42 waiting to take you!!
 
diesel1
Posts: 1482
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:30 pm

Plenty of history of non UK carriers basing aircraft at UK airports and then operating to destinations other than their home country.

This started in earnest back in the early 1990s

Carriers like European Airlines (with A300s) and Air Ops (with Tristars) could be seen at LGW and MAN

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Airports like NCL and CWL also saw non UK airline based units

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NCL

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CWL

Sometimes the airlines were not from the EU either - an example is this
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Today the practice is still widespread - as previously mentioned, Viking's MD80s and Air Malta's A320s are just two examples.

Operations by non EU airlines from the UK to EU countries are less common - one example is Trade Air's F100 which operates from BRS to OLB (took over a series originally planned to operate on Euromanx) and Skyservice's A319 operating to various destinations on behalf of Air Scandic.

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Many of the operators seem to have disappeared as quickly as they arrived...

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There have also been more than a few stories regarding the standard of service provided by these airlines too....

As well as the airlines mentioneed there are plenty of other airlines who have based aircraft in the UK, that weren't initially UK based.

(PC problems meant it's taken ages to post this.. so apologies for any overlap with what is written in other posts)
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Orion737
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:32 pm

The Yak 42 has to be the best though. I remember that Yak42 based at Manchester for holiday flights for a variety ofUK tour operators. Kosmar was one operator which was suppose to take an allocation on the Yak but they bought in seats from another operator, at great expense as they did not think the Yak would go down well with their passengers!
 
gkirk
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:33 pm

I remember the Nordic European Tristars at NCL.
South Atlantic Airways got busted in some drug smuggling scandal weren't they?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2291
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:46 am

Anyone remember the Gambia Airways DC8's operating charters from MAN, or the Lionair/Caribbean Airways B747's operating for Airtours

Quoting Diesel1 (Reply 12):
Skyservice's A319 operating to various destinations on behalf of Air Scandic

I think you will find that they can get away with this. Air Scandic has some connection to My Travel(who else would charter such cr*p??) as does Skyservice IIRC
 
diesel1
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 9:11 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:08 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 15):
Air Scandic has some connection to My Travel

Not the case, other than as a supplier.

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 15):
Anyone remember the Gambia Airways DC8's operating charters from MAN

Not DC-8s iirc, but 707. AFAIK, the Gambian 707s were operated by an Irish company (Omega) who did a fair amount of business doing subcharters and acmi flights.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 14):
South Atlantic Airways got busted in some drug smuggling scandal weren't they?

Certainly some scandal, remember reading that there were suggested links to terrorist organisations and/or money laundering
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SBE727
Topic Author
Posts: 384
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2001 10:38 pm

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:37 am

thx for all the replies there guys.

keep em comming

cheers

sbe727
 
planesailing
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:57 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 9):
air Scandic who I believe have a UK AOC anyway.

Air Scandic do not have an AOC. Air Cordial, who used to fly the A300's used too, but they asked for it to be revoked for some reason.
 
Scanwing
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:06 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:09 pm

Nordic Airlink had a plane based in Bristol in 2002. Also Transjet used to have some MD80s in UK.



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Candid76
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 5:10 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:44 pm

Well if I found out I was flying on a Yak42 I'd be delighted! But I bet I'd be in a large minority!

Air Malta no longer base an A320 at MAN (not this summer anyway) but one example of a non-UK based aircraft is Futura, who operate a 737-800 (either EIDJT or DJU) to a range of holiday destinations from MAN. Then there are the multitude of Icelandic registered aircraft (they're easy to tell as they are usually delayed!) but most of these are operated on UK AOCs.

There have always been examples of non-UK holiday jets based at UK airports, many of which are mentioned above. I remember the Transwede MD87s a few years ago - I used to check them in.

Let's have more Yak42s!
 
CalAir
Posts: 292
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RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:58 am

Transjet! Now theres an airline that flew a colourful career!!
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
diesel1
Posts: 1482
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 9:11 am

RE: Foreign Charters Based In The Uk

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am

SBE727

A couple of others...

Spanair... from MME I think
Air d'Evasion, a French DC-8 operator from LGW a good few years ago

Air Atlanta already mentioned, but Islandsflug operated through the UK long before they became part of the Avion group

Futura from BFS as well
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