September11
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Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:19 am

I am little behind .. little TV, no internet, limited newspaper/magazine reading ... now I want to catch up here by starting this thread   

Can anyone answer my questions below regarding AA M82/M83...

Last aircraft retired?

Next aircraft to be retired?

Any stored/parked the last few weeks?

Any retrieved and returned to fleet the last few weeks?

Latest incident?

and recent "Airline" media news focusing on AA M82s/M83s? (like announcements, route upgrades/downgrades, information, etc)

if you will, many thanks

Kyle

[Edited 2005-09-13 02:48:23]
Airliners.net of the Future
 
LMP737
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:38 am

Can't really answer any of your questions off the top of my head. However AA is in the process of replacing the "steam gauge" ADI/HSI on the older MD-82's with LCD's. The "steam gauge" ADI/HSI are getting more and more expensive to repair. By replacing them with LCD's AA hopes to save around $36 million a year in maintenance and training costs.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
commavia
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:40 am

One major event currently taking place vis a vis AA and its MD80 fleet is the interior refurbishments. AA is in the process of bringing all of its TWA MD80s up to AA interior standards. The seats are getting new covers. The cabin divider is getting a static, solid wall, versus the cloth flap like in the TWA days. The walls are getting AA standard laminates.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:45 am

Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.
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LMP737
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:10 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 3):
Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.

Do you have insider info?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Last aircraft retired?

Next aircraft to be retired?

Any stored/parked the last few weeks?

Any retrieved and returned to fleet the last few weeks?

Latest incident?

Nothing has really changed in the past year or so regarding the MD-80 fleet. No aircraft have been parked or retired since the decision to park and not return the 30-ish former TWA MD-80's. The only MD-80's that have ever left the fleet have been former TWA aircraft that the leases were rejected on. With the exception of the AA MD-80 written off in LIT, all original AA MD-80's are in active service, and will be for the forseeable future.

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 3):
Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.

I don't put any stock in this unsupported rumor. Unless you have some real credible source, I wouldn't believe it. AA's aircraft are heavily utilized, they cannot just hack of 90 aircraft and still maintain anywhere near their present operation. Sounds like galley chatter to me.
 
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 3):
Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.

Source?  stirthepot 
Seriously, if oil stays high, I would expect some capacity to be removed from the system. However, Would AA really ground ~10% of their capacity? That's dramatic.

Of course, we all know that "When will AA replace those MD-80's" is the next a.net "When will NW replace the DC-9's" thread!  duck 

Lightsaber
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qqflyboy
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
AA and its MD80 fleet is the interior refurbishments.

This project was completed a few months ago... thank goodness. It was a much needed re-do to standardized the fleet.

Currently there are 336 MD-80s in service with AA.

I have not heard of AA grounding any MD-80s due to oil prices, but AA has acknowledged studying swapping out engines for more fuel efficient ones. This is not the same as the recent "update" of the engines to eek out a little more thrust. New engines isn't likely to happen, but at least AA is studying its feasibility.
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MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 7):
Currently there are 336 MD-80s in service with AA

That stat never ceases to amaze me..
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:51 am

>> That stat never ceases to amaze me..

Well heck... WN has over +425 737 flying!

>> I have not heard of AA grounding any MD-80s due to oil prices, but AA has acknowledged studying swapping out engines for more fuel efficient ones. This is not the same as the recent "update" of the engines to eek out a little more thrust. New engines isn't likely to happen, but at least AA is studying its feasibility.

It was mentioned some time ago that several engines (PW6000, Tay, BR715) were under consideration as a means to reduce fuel burn. The fuel savings would be quite substantial, and with a fleet of ~330 MD-80, AA could easily have enough business to make a re-engine program feasable. Considerations are obviously amortization time, but IMO, these airframes have pleanty of life left...
 
777wt
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Latest incident?

That would have to be the AA's MD-80 in LAS. On landing, the right wingtip scrapped the ground. It was reported to be from a sudden crosswind.
No injuries, plane continued to land and stop safety.

It was caught on video too. Showed the wingtip hitting the gound and making an dirt dust trail following it.
 
September11
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:45 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 10):


It was caught on video too. Showed the wingtip hitting the gound and making an dirt dust trail following it.

yeah, someone posted a thread with video link here. I was curious if there was (or two) other incident after that one.

330 MD80s -- that's terrific fleet! yes, why not replace engines to reduce fuel burn..



[Edited 2005-09-13 05:51:32]
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qqflyboy
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:12 pm

It has been theorized that if AA were to go ahead with a program to introduce new engines to the MD-80s, only part of the fleet would be upgraded. Part of that theory was that a certain number, say 200 of them, would be upgraded, and the other 100-125 would be replaced by a new, 100-seat aircraft. There is no source to attribute this thought to, it was just theorized that AA would not re-engine the entire fleet, taking the opportunity to introduce a new 100-seat aircraft.

In my opinion, we are more likely to see AA buy new widebody aircraft before we see a re-engine prorgram or orders for new, 100-seat aircraft being made. AA has made it clear the money is in international flying, and that is where the company's assets will be utilized the most for the time being. AA has many, many international opportunities on the horizon, and the limit to serving those markets is the availability of wide body or long range aircraft... hence why the idea of reconfiguring 20 757s has come up.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:28 pm

AFAIK, American has never returned any TWA MD-80s. All 103 birds are still with AA, altho 28 were parked in the desert for awhile. Now they're being refurbish to AA's standards. What MD-80s did go were the Reno Air birds, consisting of MD-81s, -87s & -90s. American's current MD-82/83 fleet total is 362 aircraft, including the parked ships. None have been retired yet, altho the oldest MD-82 (N203AA) is 22 yrs old this year. AA also has the very last MD-80 assembled too, which is a mere 6 yrs old. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
LMP737
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:32 pm

AA is getting ready to part out some of the parked ex-TWA MD-80's.
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siromega
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting 777WT (Reply 10):

It was caught on video too. Showed the wingtip hitting the gound and making an dirt dust trail following it.

For those that didnt see that video, here is one from the local (LAS) news station, KVVU Fox 5...

http://www.kvvu.com/global/video/Wor...ss&activePane=info&playerVersion=6
 
N2111J
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:46 pm

According ANO update, the following were withdrawn from use at Roswell on August 23rd:

N940AS 49825/LN 1577
N941AS 49925/LN 1616
N9305N 49395/LN 1286
N9306T 49567/LN 1367
N9307R 49663/LN 1437
N939AS 49657/LN 1459
 
paddy78
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:36 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 13):
AA also has the very last MD-80 assembled too, which is a mere 6 yrs old.

Yes, I believe this is the TWA "Spirit of Long Beach", N984TW...I think I saw this thing not too long ago, anyone out there know the AA ship number? And did AA do anything to recognize that this was the last MD80 to roll out?...I guess I never looked to see if it had any special markings like Wings of Pride.
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:22 pm

To Paddy78...
The fleet number of MD-83 N984TW is 4YU, line #2287. The last MD-80 produced, was delivered to TWA in December 1999. A bit of trivia here, but AA took the last 13 MD-80s assembled, all of them TWA's MD-83s.
AFAIK, when AA repainted N984TW into AA's livery, it became just another generic MD-80, no special markings or anything like that. Sad to say that....it should had something on the bird to reflect both TWA & the MD-80 line. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
tothestars
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:25 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 18):
when AA repainted N984TW into AA's livery, it became just another generic MD-80, no special markings or anything like that. Sad to say that....it should had something on the bird to reflect both TWA & the MD-80 line

I couldn't agree more.
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
paddy78
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:06 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 18):
The fleet number of MD-83 N984TW is 4YU, line #2287

Thanks for the info, I will look for it...maybe someone can add some "recognition" in A2 someday....
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
AirEMS
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:32 am

I think it would be cool if AA does what US Air / A West and paint some aircraft in the liveries that have merged or were taken over by AA I think that would be cool... Like a 777 in TWA colors  Wow!


Fly Safe  spin 
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If Your Dying Were Flying
 
paddy78
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:56 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 21):
Like a 777 in TWA colors

Would be the most beautiful thing ever to take to the skies. We can only wish....
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
Whataboutme
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:59 am

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 3):
Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.

WOW... What a rumor that is. That would mean another 4000 flight attendants would be furloughed adding to the 4138 that are still furloughed.
If you watch the market fuel prices are currently on the down size. I believe jet fuel is down to a little over $70.00 a barrel compare to 2 weeks ago when it was at an all time high around $98.00. We will never see it at $30.00 anymore.
From what I understand from a friend from AA in MIA, AA will not pull out any aircraft from the desert. But whos to say things will not change in the coming future.
 
aa777flyer
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:09 am

The grounding of the 90 MD80 aircraft I heard that from a level 8 managing director....The 10,000 jobs is about right for the number of aircraft being grounded, this includes pilots, flight attendant, CSA's, mechanics, management as well. And yes it is about 10% of capacity.

Keep in mind the MD80 now has the highest CASM to operate, so pulling 90 of the oldest out may not be such a bad idea.
The TSA was created to make the post office look efficient!
 
aa777jr
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:10 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 2):
AA is in the process of bringing all of its TWA MD80s up to AA interior standards.

laughable.  

Quoting Aa777flyer (Reply 3):
Another interesting development. If oil prices remain at $60 or higher ber barrel through January AA will ground 90 MD80's and cut around another 10,000 jobs.

source?

My buddy at AA told me they are waiting for all TW contracts, pilot and flight attendant, to expire. These employees would no longer be furloughed and AA would be free to start new hires as needed. When do the contracts expire?

Regards.

[Edited 2005-09-13 18:28:00]
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PennPal
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:23 am

Would love to see the DC9/MD80 series stay in the skies for many years to come. Other than the MD11, I feel these planes are the prettiest in the sky. And so much more comfortable than the new-generation jets that are replacing them. As I had stated in another thread..."Give me a DC9 over a CRJ anyday!"
 
paddy78
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:34 am

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 25):
These employees would no longer be furloughed and AA would be free to start new hires as needed. When do the contracts expire?

I am on the recall list for 10 years; laid off in 2002 so they have to call me back before any new hires can come into my station before 2012. So those of us who did not take the buyout after the sept 11th cuts will come back unless AA goes and changes the rules on us...again...
Only amatures need the handles sticking out.
 
N1120A
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:02 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
>> That stat never ceases to amaze me..

Well heck... WN has over +425 737 flying!

Should be 440 now
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
tothestars
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:29 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 21):
think it would be cool if AA does what US Air / A West and paint some aircraft in the liveries that have merged or were taken over by AA I think that would be cool... Like a 777 in TWA colors



There will never be an AA plane flying with a TWA livery, (too much personality) and way too much bad blood.


TWA f/a
Pride and dignity
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:57 am

ToTheStars and AirEMS...
You do have that poster with the TWA 777 on it, don't ya?
Here's a couple of links for ya if you're feeling nostalgic.
http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/tw.html <...TWA fleet history.
http://www.historicaviation.com <...a link to a catalog for the TWA 777.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
aa757first
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting MD11LuxuryLinr (Reply 8):
Currently there are 336 MD-80s in service with AA

That stat never ceases to amaze me..

Me too. Think about it. If AirTran, Frontier, Southwest and IAir all merged, American would still be bigger

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
Well heck... WN has over +425 737 flying!

Yeah, but, American has five other fleet types. By the time you factor them in, American is twice the size of Southwest.

Quoting Whataboutme (Reply 23):
WOW... What a rumor that is. That would mean another 4000 flight attendants would be furloughed adding to the 4138 that are still furloughed.

I hear American is very short of flight attendants now. I couldn't imagine them laying off 4,000 more.

AAndrew
 
Okie
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:51 am

The galley rumor I heard from over on the AE side was that AA was trying to figure out a way to bring in contract FA's when I questioned about call backs.

Lower wages, lower benefits, no retirement, no non revving, no hassles for management to determine work schedules or fill sick leave or vacations if they get any. Outsourcing so to speak.

Don't flame me, I sort of took the conversation with a grain of salt myself, but after AA dropped below the required number of mainline flights (7 I believe) here at OKC and substituted AE aircraft to get around the union requirement for ground handlers maybe there is some substance.

Okie
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 32):
The galley rumor I heard from over on the AE side was that AA was trying to figure out a way to bring in contract FA's when I questioned about call backs.

Lower wages, lower benefits, no retirement, no non revving, no hassles for management to determine work schedules or fill sick leave or vacations if they get any. Outsourcing so to speak.

That is purely just galley chatter, speculation, etc. Gotta love all the crazy scenarios these people dream up. Then again, since they have all the free time these days during flights they have to come up with these rumors.

They are not going to suddenly just park 90 MD-80's. Yes, they may be the highest CASM, but I really doubt they are significantly higher than the 738's. Its all relative. At least for the time being, AA has the lowest CASM of any of the legacies. Things may be different though, once we have 4 of the 6 legacies in Ch.11 by this time next month. I could see maybe 10-20 being parked, but 90????? No chance at all, especially since ERJ deliveries have come to a halt.
 
ckfred
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:31 pm

If, and that's a big if, AA parked 90 MD-80s in the desert, then it would have to cut significantly at ORD. With the cap on operations at ORD, if AA cut 10% of its mainline operations at ORD, those "slots" would go to other carriers. Once those slots get assigned to other carriers, it will be very difficult for AA to get them back. That's one reason why I don't think AA is about to send that many planes to the desert.
 
September11
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:52 pm

I seriously can not imagine seeing 90 parked AA M80s in the desert - I will faint if that happens  faint  but, if they have to, they would probably will spread them out around the nation

I am not sure if there are parked AA M80s at this very moment?

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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:13 pm

Quoting September11 (Reply 35):
I am not sure if there are parked AA M80s at this very moment?

Yes there are about 30 MD-80's in storage, all former TWA aircraft. The aircraft in the picture is still in storage. These aircraft have been in storage for about 2 years now. Again, none are original AA MD80's

There was a handful of MD-80's (former TWA aircraft) that were returned to lessors during the TWA merger process. Again, this was only about 3-4 aircraft though.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 21):
Like a 777 in TWA colors

That will never happen as AA is too proud to put any of their planes in the lesser company's colors. They screwed TWA over but good.
Puhdiddle
 
SESGDL
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 31):
Me too. Think about it. If AirTran, Frontier, Southwest and IAir all merged, American would still be bigger

No, they wouldn't be.

Jeremy
 
tothestars
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:38 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 30):
ToTheStars and AirEMS...
You do have that poster with the TWA 777 on it, don't ya?
Here's a couple of links for ya if you're feeling nostalgic.
http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/tw.html <...TWA fleet history.
http://www.historicaviation.com <...a link to a catalog for the TWA 777.
Regards.

Thanks for the links Flagship. Have you seen the pic of how the TWA livery would have looked on the 787? Sweet!
TWA-Airline To the Stars
 
MD11LuxuryLinr
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:45 pm

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 9):
>> That stat never ceases to amaze me..

Well heck... WN has over +425 737 flying!



Quoting Aa757first (Reply 31):
Yeah, but, American has five other fleet types. By the time you factor them in, American is twice the size of Southwest.

Thanks Aa757first. Atleast you knew the direction I was coming from..  Smile
Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
 
AirEMS
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RE: Latest/most Recent AA "Super 80" Developments

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:49 am

Woo Hoo thanks Flagship..... yet again I ask the question would we ever see a Frontier 80's retro jet???  pray 

Fly Safe
-Carl
If Your Dying Were Flying