hardiwv
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RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:56 am

It is confirmed: as of 14 January 2006 RG will drop NRT from its network.

However, the airline will continue to operate GIG-GRU-LAX 4 x week with the MD-11. RG flies to Japan since 1969. However, operations to Japan via the US became unsustainable because of the new US Transit VISA rules. The majority of pax now fly to Japan via Europe. Before 09/11 RG used to operate to NRT daily, and then reduced the flight to 4 x week.

RG will continue to offer pax connections to Japan via FRA and MUC with LH and via LAX with UA and ANA.

On 15 January 2006 will start flights GRU-MUC 3 x week. In MUC RG will offer immediate connections with LH and other Star partner airlines to Asia, mainly PEK and NRT.

Rgs,
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
On 15 January 2006 will start flights GRU-MUC 3 x week. In MUC RG will offer immediate connections with LH and other Star partner airlines to Asia, mainly PEK and NRT.

sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

but I will belive in it when the first flight arrives in MUC ( we know the troubel with RG and MUC)....

Any more information (what aircraft, what schedule?)

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
Before 09/11 RG used to operate to NRT daily, and then reduced the flight to 4 x week.

They flew to Japan daily, not Tokyo. NRT was 4x weekly, NGO was 3x weekly. They attempted to get slots in 2002 to go daily to Tokyo, but were not successful.
a.
 
PPVRA
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:04 am

Hardi, beat me to it!

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
Any more information (what aircraft, what schedule?)

MD-11 (probably -ER).

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

Portuguese only:

http://www.panrotas.com.br

They don't allow direct links to the press release anymore.

Good luck to RG at MUC!

Star flights to Brazil:

GRU-FRA*: B744, A346 (LH), B772 (RG).
GIG-FRA: B772 (RG)
GRU-MUC: MD-11ER (with RG)

*LH flights continue to EZE and SCL.

Cheers

[Edited 2005-09-13 23:35:08]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
http://panrotas.com.br

it does not work Sad

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3):
Good luck to RG at MUC!

if they real start they will have success on the route!!

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 1):
sounds very intresting! any link regarding this?

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...&nome_model=ultima.asp&url_origem=

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They flew to Japan daily, not Tokyo.

Correct.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They attempted to get slots in 2002 to go daily to Tokyo, but were not successful.

The Japanese Government was VERY tough with RG, very unfair in my point of view, especially because Brazil embraced more than 2 million Japanese immigrants. RG tried its best to continue its operations to Japan; RG wanted to operate GRU-ZRH-NRT daily but the Japanese Government never granted RG traffic rights ZRH-NRT...now that RG dropped NRT from its network and JAL has the direct market Japan-Brazil all for its own...

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
it does not work Sad

Forgot the www... lol, should work now

Cheers

PS: Don't click on the www above..lol

Edit:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):

http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...igem=

I wonder why it didn't work for me the first time....

[Edited 2005-09-13 23:11:41]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
http://www.panrotas.com.br/canais/re...&nome_model=ultima.asp&url_origem=

thanks!!!

it would be intresting to see in the future how many passengers on the flight will be conection passengers to asia, middle east, india and europe. and how many passengesr will be local for bavaria....

regards
Avianca

ps: are the flights already loaded into the booking tools?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
it would be intresting to see in the future how many passengers on the flight will be conection passengers to asia, middle east, india and europe. and how many passengesr will be local for bavaria....

To be honest, I think the GRU-MUC route will be strong on its own! RG already operated this route in the past and it was a resound success...until LH spoilt the party. But I'm sure LH will not do it now, because the decision to axe LAX-NRT and start GRU-MUC was in line with the recommendation of LH Consultancy!  Wink [and dont forget the World Soccer Championship in Germany...Brazilians will literally flock to Germany...]

Quoting Avianca (Reply 7):
are the flights already loaded into the booking tools?

Not yet. My doubt is the frequency and timetable to MUC, is RG going to offer more frequencies and daylight operation or less frequencies and red-eye flights only?

Interesting to note: currently RG's two top performing routes are GRU-FRA and GIG-FRA. To add MUC in the network does seem a sensible decision.

Rgs,
 
UpperDeck79
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:35 am

Btw, isn't GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT the longest direct route in the world? 27 h 45 min, that's a long time on one aircraft! (Well, you have to disembark in LAX, but it's still the same flight and aircraft...)
AY and ANA rock!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:41 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):

Seems that RG dropped one of three non profitable routes (they give this info on the recovery plan). In the next weeks probably we will hear more drops and new routes developments.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
Interesting to note: currently RG's two top performing routes are GRU-FRA and GIG-FRA. To add MUC in the network does seem a sensible decision.

Agree 100%, probably MUC could be a top 5 even not daily (and i believe in a short time, it will be daily!).

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
[and dont forget the World Soccer Championship in Germany...Brazilians will literally flock to Germany...]

Just a little off-topic. I paid less than USD 1,000 for my air ticket to HAM (connection thru CDG) for the World Cup, nowadays best fares are around USD 1,300 and some dates are already 95% booked. I believe RG and LH will probably add a new frequency during june/july for the city where Brazil will stay as demand will be extremelly high.

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:47 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
To be honest, I think the GRU-MUC route will be strong on its own! RG already operated this route in the past and it was a resound success...until LH spoilt the party.

oh yes I can remember when Varig arrived in MUC firstly with the B763 and then with the MD11, then LH put the A343 flight to GRU ex MUC and Varig left MUC some months after that LH kicked the GRU flight ex MUC from the timetable.... as I could not live without any SouthAmerican Airline at my homeairport I moved to FRA,  Big grin
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
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rg828
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:09 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Thread starter):
It is confirmed: as of 14 January 2006 RG will drop NRT from its network.

Wow, how depressing. It used to be one of their most traditional routes, obtained through their merger with Real Aerovias in the 60s. My family used these flights fairly frequently from the 1970s up to the late 90s, starting from Haneda (Before NRT was open) using 707s, DC-10s, 742s, 743s, 744s and MD11s - the DC-10s being the most comfortable!

It was great seeing those Varig tails in NRT, the stopovers in ANC, and getting stuck in a closed-out waiting room in LAX during transits.

I hope all this shrinking in RG's route network helps it in some way.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:29 pm

Quoting RG828 (Reply 12):
Wow, how depressing.

I find it rather rational.

Airlines have to adjust their network according to the market. It makes all the sense for RG to stop flying to a non-profitable destination, i.e. NRT, and to add flights to potential new markets, i.e. MUC, which happens to be LH second hub; and as Felipe mentioned, most certainly MUC will make it to one of RG most profitables routes.

Rgs,
 
AF022
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:57 pm

I'm sorry but didn't RG fly to MUC before and drop it? Why was it dropped? Why are they putting so much faith in a market that they have been in before and left?
 
hardiwv
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:20 pm

Please read reply 8.

RG operations to MUC were very profitable and successful...until LH meddle into the market - something which, for now, we expect will not happen.

Rgs,
 
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rg828
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 13):
Quoting RG828 (Reply 12):
Wow, how depressing.

I find it rather rational.

Yes, I agree. What I also wanted to say is that nowadays lenghty routes like Brazil-Japan can become unsustainable, in this case because of transit Visa impositions. The route always was very popular.

Somewhat similiar to how some European carriers stopped operating to Australia.

Varig's other Far-East destination in the past - GIG-GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG - was operationally complicated I was told (the details escape me.) I wonder how popular it was in its lifetime.
I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
 
AF022
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting RG828 (Reply 16):
I wonder how popular it was in its lifetime.

Comically low loads. Varig didn't have traffic rights JNB-BKK. Someone at RG told me that a huge chunk of passengers were actually ASU-TPE traffic (believe it or not). The yields must have been terrible.
 
A342
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:36 am

Let´s wait and see IF it gets started. IF yes, I have no reason to believe that it won´t be a success. But I think RG needs to improve its customer service (as LH does  Yeah sure ), just have a look at some recent trip reports...
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:06 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
RG operations to MUC were very profitable and successful...until LH meddle into the market - something which, for now, we expect will not happen.

as I know LH and RG arranged between them that LH left the GIG market from FRA to RG and RG left the MUC - GRU market to LH.... Yes RG cutted the route to MUC for LH and some month later LH cuttted also the flight....

cheers
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
LipeGIG
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 19):
as I know LH and RG arranged between them that LH left the GIG market from FRA to RG and RG left the MUC - GRU market to LH.... Yes RG cutted the route to MUC for LH and some month later LH cuttted also the flight....

RG loads for FRA are in fact very strong. Yesterday flights was 90% GIG-FRA and about 79% GRU-FRA. Both flights with most Biz seats and First full. RG is looking probably to increase flights before World Cup and MUC is a right choice.
I can`t see LH claiming for this route as they will probably code-share the flight with RG.

Rgds
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Avianca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
I can`t see LH claiming for this route as they will probably code-share the flight with RG.

well I can not confirm this.... LH is LH...
But I hope that it will be not the same scenario as last time (as mentioned above on my last post....)

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
aa777jr
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:07 am

So a carrier drops their NRT slot, do they still retain the rights to the gate? If so, can they sell it? AA could use another slot so they can keep SJC-NRT in addition to their rights to fly HNL-NRT.

Regards.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
HALFA
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:09 am

I have mixed emotions about this. While it is sad to see a legacy carrier like RG drop a route that was such an important part of it's structure for so many years, I'm also happy that now I might finally be able to get seats on the LAX-GIG segments without a problem! I would think this would significantly reduce load factor on GRU-LAX-GRU segments, but hopefully not enough that they will do away with LAX all together.

Aloha,
HALFA
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
LipeGIG
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 23):
I have mixed emotions about this. While it is sad to see a legacy carrier like RG drop a route that was such an important part of it's structure for so many years, I'm also happy that now I might finally be able to get seats on the LAX-GIG segments without a problem! I would think this would significantly reduce load factor on GRU-LAX-GRU segments, but hopefully not enough that they will do away with LAX all together.

Halfa, now probably we will see Varig trying to work with agents to sell more California as a destination due to additional space on the M11. I was there some weeks ago and at least 70% of GIG-NRT leaves at LAX (and many people on the conference need to connect thru DFW and MIA). Also RG will try to sell GIG-LAX as the only South America flight/option to California. I see a good future for this flight. In a couple of years it could become a daily flight.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Brasuca
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:56 am

VARIG has just released their three weekly schedule to MUC:


GRU - MUC (RG 8772)
22:25 - 13:00

THU - FRI - SUN


MUC - GRU (RG 8773)
20:30 - 05:45

MON - FRI - SAT
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
TP727
Posts: 95
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:16 am

UAL´s presence in SFO is greater than LAX? If it is, maybe RG should change their California flight to SFO, instead of LAX.
I haven´t been to LAX for some time, but i was in SFO about 4 month ago and verified that UA is big there.

TP727
 
LipeGIG
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting TP727 (Reply 26):
UAL´s presence in SFO is greater than LAX?

SFO is an United Airlines hub. The problem is some cargo deals that RG keeps for LAX because for pax, i think the change it`s not a problem.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:57 am

Another weekly charter flight from Varig starts every saturday by the end of october 2005 from Rio to Munich with B767-300.
 
PPVRA
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:15 am

Quoting Flymunich (Reply 28):
Another weekly charter flight from Varig starts every saturday by the end of october 2005 from Rio to Munich with B767-300.

Also, all of RG's operations to LIS are expected to be via codeshare with TAP by NOV/05... I guess that opens up a/c to run a second JFK.

PPVRA
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
A342
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:09 am

Sorry, I couldn´t find anything on RG´s Germany website nor on amadeus.net nor on another fare search engine.
A question about the GIG flight: Is it a pure charter or is it possible to book tickets only ?
Also I see the possibility of MUC-NRT being upgraded from A343 to A346 and going daily instead of 6x/week now.
The NRT connecting fkights are well timed so you won´t be in a hurry (at least 2.5 hours in MUC each way) but here are some facts about PEK connections at which RG was supposed to aim when choosing MUC: CA flies MUC-PEK on 1-3-56- with a 772 departing 19:00, arriving the next day. LH flies MUC-PEK 1-3--6- witha 343 departing 17:20, also arriving the next day.
This means you hve to spend more than 4 hours at (beautiful) MUC before connecting on to PEK. On the way back you ought to take CA as the CA flights arrive on days when RG departs MUC.

All in all, I think this new route will be successfull. I hope it goes daily soon, so I hope for MUC-PEK. Frequency is not important here, so I´m quite sure that around 2010 or even earlier we will see a daily A380 on this route, of course as a LH/CA codeshare.
Good luck RG !
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
flymunich
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:29 am

@ A342

Booking www.rio-direkt.de, only full charter flights.
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:40 am

Quoting Flymunich (Reply 31):
Booking www.rio-direkt.de, only full charter flights.

During Autumn holidays you could fly to RIO for just 714 € !  eyepopping 

Let´s have an a.net meet in Rio ! (just kidding  Smile )
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:06 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 29):
Also, all of RG's operations to LIS are expected to be via codeshare with TAP by NOV/05... I guess that opens up a/c to run a second JFK.

PPVRA, in fact RG will use the same 2 777-200ER (PP-VRI and VRJ) to run a daily light 3 times per week. With PP-VRA back to service since saturday night (and nowadays runing GIG-FRA), JFK route received back their 2nd plane.

Quoting A342 (Reply 32):
During Autumn holidays you could fly to RIO for just 714 € !

Let´s have an a.net meet in Rio ! (just kidding )

I will pay the first beer! My vote goes to a nice airport called Ipanema Beach, where we can see a lot of other "planes" !  Smile (For fun)

Nice price... you won`t find a GIG-FRA for less than US$ 1,300 !  Sad

Rgds,
Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
They flew to Japan daily, not Tokyo. NRT was 4x weekly, NGO was 3x weekly. They attempted to get slots in 2002 to go daily to Tokyo, but were not successful.

Of late, RG was actually trying to get back their NGO slots and go daily there, as they would have no competition on the route and been able to codeshare with UA

Quoting Aa777jr (Reply 22):
AA could use another slot so they can keep SJC-NRT in addition to their rights to fly HNL-NRT.

SJC-NRT is not a slot issue, it is a loads and yield issue

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 27):
Quoting TP727 (Reply 26):
UAL´s presence in SFO is greater than LAX?

SFO is an United Airlines hub. The problem is some cargo deals that RG keeps for LAX because for pax, i think the change it`s not a problem.

SFO and LAX are both United hubs, and while SFO is the larger hub for LAX, LAX is a FAR larger city, O&D market and has a larger Brasilian population. All of that adds up to RG prioritizing LAX over SFO
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:02 am

RE: RG Drops NRT And Starts MUC In Jan/06

Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:43 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 32):
Let´s have an a.net meet in Rio ! (just kidding )

Count on me!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 33):
I will pay the first beer!

Me the second. Big grin

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