Avianca
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How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:12 am

Well CO is now serving since some weeks the new colombian destination CLO.

Has anybody some informations regarding loadfactor und the success of the new flight?

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:45 am

I have been told the flight has done "in the middle" - accepetable, but not outstanding. It will be reduced to 3x weekly during most of the winter timetable, however, outside of peak holiday travel.

With Cali being a heavy VFR market with little business traffic, it is difficult to lure passengers going to Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and Orlando away from American and Avianca.

CO made the mistake of launching it from Houston, IMO, when Newark is where most of the traffic is going anyway. Medellin, a strong business and oil market, would work great from Houston.

The weak performance might be good for Medellin. Routing the flight IAH-CLO-MDE-IAH could be just what is needed to make it a successful route year-round.
a.
 
Avianca
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:48 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Medellin, a strong business and oil market

Medellin has strong business but not a big oil market....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
The weak performance might be good for Medellin. Routing the flight IAH-CLO-MDE-IAH could be just what is needed to make it a successful route year-round.

sounds good, maybe CO will ad MDE in future?


just checked the fares, it seems that the lower priced passengers are routed at least on one leg via PTY on CM.... why this?

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:36 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
It will be reduced to 3x weekly during most of the winter timetable, however, outside of peak holiday travel.

I hope the last couple weeks in December don't get reduced service, I would imagine that's when CLO gets the most out of town visitors, during its annual Ferria de Cali. I'll be there for sure, and via CO no doubt.

My parents just came back from Cali a few weeks ago, but their work schedules were in conflict, and thus they ended up leaving on different dates. My dad booked with AA via MIA. My mom booked with CO.
Needless to say I doubt my dad will ever go via MIA to get to CLO ever again. Its just too much of a hassle he says.

And I think once the word starts to spread that IAH offers a much better point of entry experience for Latin American travelers, versus MIA, IAH will become a much more desirable connecting point for Latin American travelers (at the very least for those who are West Coast bound).
 
RCS763AV
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:49 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Medellin, a strong business and oil market

Oil?

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 3):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
It will be reduced to 3x weekly during most of the winter timetable, however, outside of peak holiday travel.

I hope the last couple weeks in December don't get reduced service, I would imagine that's when CLO gets the most out of town visitors, during its annual Ferria de Cali. I'll be there for sure, and via CO no doubt

FeRia de Cali does not attract that much people to make the flight daily. There may be domestic flight increases but its not like IB will do charters...

If CO started the flight from EWR they would be doing nice, IAH does not have a strong community which is the niche that clo fills.
 
102IAHexpress
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:10 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
if CO started the flight from EWR they would be doing nice

Thats probably true, but that alone is not enough for CO to drop IAH in favor of a sole EWR - CLO service. I'm not saying there shouldn't be EWR serivce, indeed there should, I think there's room for both. For example those connecting from the West Coast would be ideal canidates for connecting via IAH.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
IAH does not have a strong community which is the niche that clo fills.

Again, IMO I think connecting passengers is what will make this route succesfull. Not O & D. Although I must mention that Houston does have a growing Colombian pop, with many of those being from Cali; my family included!  Smile
 
N276AASTT
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:14 am

CO must have had their reasons for choosing IAH over EWR. I guess the "numbers" that their marketing personnel and anaylists came up with suggested that IAH would perform better over EWR (which I'm sure they considered).
Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
 
Southamerica
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:14 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
Medellin has strong business but not a big oil market....



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
Oil?

Yes, Medellin does register quite a significant oil activity. Not extremely big as other industries like fashion, textile or public services, but much bigger than any oil business going on in Cali.

It is oil business what makes every regional airline fly Medellin-Puerto Berrio. It's a town bordering the Magdalena river in the eastern part of the department which can be reached in 3-4 hours by car, and still, there's quite a variety of flights for last-minute one-day business travellers; and those are quite a bunch.

All the oil, gold and cattle industry going on in the eastern-northeastern regions of the department naturally concentrate in Medellin.

________________________________

I never really understood why CO decided to bet only on CLO when looking at more destinations in Colombia. MDE is, culturally, a bit more complex of a market with complicated customers which like tradition, and stick to old-school instead of trying out new things; but still, Medellin offers the industry-base that, unfortunately, is long-gone from Cali.

MDE, being also a more expensive station to operate, could have driven CO away initially.




SOUTHAMERICA
 
flyinfroggie
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:41 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 7):
MDE, being also a more expensive station to operate, could have driven CO away initially.

Just curious - what makes MDE more expensive to operate?
 
Avianca
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 7):
es, Medellin does register quite a significant oil activity.

What are the company names?

[Edited 2005-09-14 23:00:07]
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Southamerica
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Flyinfroggie (Reply 8):
Just curious - what makes MDE more expensive to operate?

It has to do basically with gas prices; in CLO, gas is considerably cheaper than in MDE.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 9):
What are the company names?

All the eastern region of Antioquia from Yondo [the main oil center in the department] to Puerto Berrio concentrates plenty of oil activity that basically belongs to Ecopetrol and Occidental Andina, which, by the way, are now working together to better-extract this region's potential.

Barrancabermeja and Puerto Berrio, the two most significant towns in the Magdalena Medio region, are the two places where travellers related to oil-business arrive/depart. Barrancabermeja already has 2 daily flights to Bogota and 1/2 to Medellin [not even to Bucaramanga !]. Puerto Berrio only has services to Medellin, formerly provided by now-defunct West Caribbean Airways, and now by ADA.

Now that the plans to re-open the Yondo-Barrancabermeja bridge over the Magdalena river are well-advance, we should see this region developing even more. Air services to these cities are necessary given the actual road conditions to Bogota, and more, to Medellin.





SOUTHAMERICA
 
SABE
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:36 am

I hope CO does well on CLO-IAH, so that it motivates AA to start CLO-DFW !!!  Smile

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 3):
And I think once the word starts to spread that IAH offers a much better point of entry experience for Latin American travelers, versus MIA, IAH will become a much more desirable connecting point for Latin American travelers (at the very least for those who are West Coast bound).

I agree 100% with you... connecting in MIA is horrible (especially when one enters the US), and having to cross the entire country from the West coast of the US to MIA just to catch a South American-bound plane (and vice versa) is very inconvenient!!! I was really glad when AA started DFW-SCL and DFW-EZE

Saludos,

--Lucas
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
Avianca
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:39 am

Quoting SABE (Reply 11):
so that it motivates AA to start CLO-DFW !!!

would be great, but AA should firstly start a BOG-DFW flight....this should be the next step for AA on the colombian market...

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:05 am

Quoting SABE (Reply 11):
so that it motivates AA to start CLO-DFW !!! Smile

They should worry about DFW-BOG first, and that isn't happening soon. AA's next Colombia route will probably be a return to MIA-BAQ.

Quoting SABE (Reply 11):
and having to cross the entire country from the West coast of the US to MIA just to catch a South American-bound plane (and vice versa) is very inconvenient!!!

It may appear inconvenient on a map, but it isn't. The quickest way to get between LAX and EZE with AA is via Miami; a Dallas connection adds 30 minutes. Connecting on AA flying LAX-DFW-SCL is only 15 minutes less than flying LAX-MIA-SCL.
a.
 
SABE
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:57 pm

Hi Mark,

I think LAX and SFO are special cases, because AA offers non-stop service between them and MIA. But in the cases of SEA, PHX, LAS, SAN, TUS, etc., where you have to fly from point A to DFW/ORD and then MIA, the additional stop adds between 90 minutes and two hours to the flight (plus the hassle of the extra connection). I know this is not the "end of the world" in a 15hr+ flight, but for me it's enough to try and avoid MIA.

Cheers,

--Lucas
TUS-DFW-EZE... can't wait to visit home again!
 
2travel2know
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:09 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Routing the flight IAH-CLO-MDE-IAH could be just what is needed to make it a successful route year-round.

If MDE altitude is 2,000m, Wouldn't be better IAH-MDE-CLO-IAH ?
Maybe CO should look if a EWR-MDE-CLO-EWR would work too?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Southamerica
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
Maybe CO should look if a EWR-MDE-CLO-EWR would work too?

AV tried flying to EWR from MDE during the 90s, but the flight was simply relocated to JFK, which is, by far, where most Colombians arrive/depart when travelling to New York.

AV has had a tradition of flying MDE-NYC for years. The flights, throughout time, have operated via CTG, BAQ and nonstop, as they currently are.

Maybe there's room for CO from EWR in peak-travelling periods, but for MDE, I would bet much more on a flight from IAH.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
Avianca
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 16):
Maybe there's room for CO from EWR in peak-travelling periods, but for MDE, I would bet much more on a flight from IAH.

well EWR would have one big advantage against IAH!
EWR could offer many many connections to Europe!

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:42 am

Quoting SABE (Reply 14):

I think LAX and SFO are special cases, because AA offers non-stop service between them and MIA. But in the cases of SEA, PHX, LAS, SAN, TUS, etc., where you have to fly from point A to DFW/ORD and then MIA, the additional stop adds between 90 minutes and two hours to the flight (plus the hassle of the extra connection). I know this is not the "end of the world" in a 15hr+ flight, but for me it's enough to try and avoid MIA.

That is very true. Which is why AA is expanding their presence between Miami and other domestic cities percisily because of this. AA flies MIA-LAS non-stop 2x daily, and offers codeshare non-stop service on MIA-SEA with Alaska Airlines. Look for Miami-San Diego and Miami-Phoenix to launch in the near future.
a.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:14 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
If MDE altitude is 2,000m, Wouldn't be better IAH-MDE-CLO-IAH ?

Its 1500m. And its really no difference as the 73Gs range is well within the duration of the flight.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 16):
AV has had a tradition of flying MDE-NYC for years. The flights, throughout time, have operated via CTG, BAQ and nonstop, as they currently are.

Yes, and the flight originates in CLO where most of the pax come from, as there was a huge migration of Caleños to New York in the late 80s and 90s.
The Paisas who live in the US mostly live in Florida.
 
Avianca
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:18 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
The Paisas who live in the US mostly live in Florida.

can not agree, many people with Medellin origin are living in NYC and Northeast Area of the US.

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:36 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 20):
can not agree, many people with Medellin origin are living in NYC and Northeast Area of the US.

Yes, but most are in Florida. As do people from Bogota, Santander and the Coast. Caleños are more based in NYC but there is also a big community in Florida.
 
Southamerica
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RE: How Is CO Doing On The New CLO Service?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Its 1500m. And its really no difference as the 73Gs range is well within the duration of the flight.

Medellin, the city, is located at 1500 meters above sea level [EOH is 4940 ft aprox.]. 2travel2know referred to MDE, which is indeed located well above 2000 meters, 2140 to be more precise [7030 ft aprox].

MDE's altitude does often represent and obstacle for international operations.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 19):
Yes, and the flight originates in CLO where most of the pax come from, as there was a huge migration of Caleños to New York in the late 80s and 90s.

The flight originating in Cali is rather new. Medellin, during the 90s, always well-supported up to daily nonstop service to New York on its own.

But yes, most people from Medellin living in the US do so in Florida, no wonder why MDE-MIA-MDE was the fourth most active international market out of Colombia this past mid-year season, and the second most active market to North America after, obviously, BOG-MIA-BOG.


SOUTHAMERICA