chiawei
Posts: 927
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2000 9:07 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:50 am

CNN just reported that Delta has filed for Chapter 11 protection.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:51 am

Yet more pressure on the stronger carriers to do the same. A sad day indeed.

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
Boeing757/767
Posts: 2179
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 11:05 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:52 am

From Reuters:

Delta Air files for Chapter 11 protection

Wednesday September 14, 4:47 pm ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE:DAL - News), which has struggled to avoid bankruptcy for several months, on Wednesday filed for Chapter 11 protection, brought down by high oil prices and steep competition from low-cost carriers.

The No. 3 U.S. airline, which earlier this year said it did not have enough cash to meet its liquidity needs in 2005, filed for Chapter 11 protection in the U.S. bankruptcy court in the Southern District of New York.
Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:54 am

Interesting that NW did not because now they have to make that pension payment tommorow or even CH11 won't take the lien off their assets?
 
SQ2
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:08 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:54 am

Delta now, Northwest will be the next one to file CH11 protection soon, which i hope not.
SQ always my 1st choice
 
pensacolaguy
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:58 am

I really hope DL doesn't stay in Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for long. Hope they find a way to make money and term costs. Without drastically cutting routes/service.

*Has DL ever filled for Chapter 11 protection?
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:00 am

 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:00 am

Now I suppose they'll be dumping their pension plan too.  irked 

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:01 am

The official press release:

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9861

Best of luck to you Delta, long live the widget  white !
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:01 am

Every one of these airlines should be out of business. Their business models have failed. The companies are no longer solvent.

I know it would suck for the employees. But everywhere else in the private sector, it's a way of life. And besides, new carriers will spring from the ashes.

Go work there.

And the first thoughts through your head are "what about my seniority or my pension"?

Then YOU ARE PART of the problem.

It's that antiquated, old school mentality that has dragged on at least two decades too long that got the airlines in the mess they are in today.
 
BR715-A1-30
Posts: 6525
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 9:30 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:02 am

Not Necessarily, It IS possible to go into bankruptcy without dumping a pension plan. However, This WAS a last option as no CEO ever wants to see his company go into Ch. 11... However, I feel if Mullin was still CEO, this would have happened a long time ago.
Puhdiddle
 
Ken777
Posts: 9046
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:05 am

I'm sorry to see Delta file, but hope that they can work things out with minimal pain - especially for the employees.

The fact that NW is holding on to cash - up to $100+ million - is a pretty good indication that they are looking at it very closely. They will not have much time to decide with the pension payment due so we should know their decision within 24 hours.

A painful time - all the best to the employees.
 
GSPITNL
Posts: 342
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:10 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting Pensacolaguy (Reply 5):
*Has DL ever filled for Chapter 11 protection?

No Delta has never filed Chapter 11 before. DL will not be here long as they are already showing strong signs of restructuring and will use Chp 11 to get down there debt and get back to making money

Quoting Matt D (Reply 9):
Every one of these airlines should be out of business. Their business models have failed. The companies are no longer solvent.

That is the most disgusting comment of the year. That is a very bad comment to make.
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:07 am

Matt, I just HAVE to ask. Where do YOU work?





OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:07 am

Finally, no more "DL likely to file CH11 on XYZ"-articles by WSJ, AJC, NYT et all.
DL, just pull the tricks UA did, and everything will be fine.
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:07 am

Since bankruptcy seems to be such a popular and successful option of late, perhaps NW, CO and AA can go to the courthouse together and get some kind of group discount. This whole drawn out bankruptcy process that creates artificial advantages for failed carriers is making me sick.  ill 

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
NUAir
Posts: 1144
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2000 4:24 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 7):
Now I suppose they'll be dumping their pension plan too.

That is correct sir!

My best friend in DC who works for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) said that they have already received preliminary notice on Delta's pension program.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 7):
Now I suppose they'll be dumping their pension plan too.

Most likely, AAgent- which makes it harder for other airlines not in Chapter 11 to compete. We at AA could be next- who knows?
 
YoungFlyer
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:23 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:12 am

Sad day for delta and for of their passengers. Hope they can find a way to rebound but nowadays it just seems near impossible.
Dan
"An eye for an eye only makes the whole world blind" -Gandhi
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 9):
Every one of these airlines should be out of business. Their business models have failed. The companies are no longer solvent.

I know it would suck for the employees. But everywhere else in the private sector, it's a way of life. And besides, new carriers will spring from the ashes.

Go work there.

And the first thoughts through your head are "what about my seniority or my pension"?

Then YOU ARE PART of the problem.

It's that antiquated, old school mentality that has dragged on at least two decades too long that got the airlines in the mess they are in today.

Matt, in all the time I've been here, I've seen you post some pretty radical and different things.. However, recently they've been more and mroe disturbing. This has to be the worst post of the year, if not the decade (so far).. People NEED the pensions, they WORKED For them, and they've built their savings and retirement planes around them too.. Now, if they're gone, what are they supposed to do?? This is a TRAGIC thing if it were to happen.

That's so low man.. I never expected that kind of comment from you..

And before you talk about old school or antiquated, get rid of your reel-to-reel collection and all that stuff..

Chris

[Edited 2005-09-14 23:18:29]
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 17):
Most likely, AAgent- which makes it harder for other airlines not in Chapter 11 to compete. We at AA could be next- who knows?

Doesn't the whole thing just make you nauseous. There are going to be some rough skies ahead for all of the carriers operating outside of the protection of the bankruptcy club house. Best of luck to NW, CO and my fellow AA'ers.

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
n471wn
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:14 am

And Delta made the mistake of all old line companies---they scoffed at their competition and demeaned ValuJet......instead of changing their business model, they exemplified the definition of insanity which is: "keep doing things the same way and expect different results." No longer can they be arrogant as their passengers continue to vote with their feet in Atlanta by getting off the train at Terminal C and making a right turn.....This is a great American story--how little ValuJet and now Air Tran brought down the mighty Delta fortress in Atlanta........do not respond in this thread with the other factors as I know them---but one factor was a little airline that figured it all out while Delta missed the opportunity to do so.....we call that TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS!!!
 
PITA333
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:59 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:15 am

I just got word of this on the local TV news station, KDKA. I can't put what I want to say in any other way so I'll just say it; "This just sucks!". I hope that DL can prevail on top in the end. Good luck and godspeed DL and all DL employees. I know that most of a.net stands behind you.

Regars,
PITA333
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1231
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:16 am

And in related news...

The sky really has fallen

Good luck DL!
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 13):
Matt, I just HAVE to ask. Where do YOU work?

Ditto, what a jerk. My mother works for Delta and I am pissed.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:16 am

Below the belt or not below the belt. It's irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that in todays global outsourcing environment, people need to get it through their heads that the days of first-day-of-hire to retirement entitlement and security are OVER.

Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

If you want to make sure you aren't eating dog food when you hit 65, then I strongly recommend you use a tried and true method of safety:

start socking money under the mattress.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:18 am

From the geniuses at the Miami FOX affiliate, who apparently know something we don't:

ATLANTA -- Song, the low-fare carrier of Delta Air Lines Inc., filed for bankruptcy protection Wednesday in what was seen as a precursor to its parent company's own Chapter 11 filing.

http://www.wsvn.com
a.
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:18 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 15):
Since bankruptcy seems to be such a popular and successful option of late, perhaps NW, CO and AA can go to the courthouse together and get some kind of group discount. This whole drawn out bankruptcy process that creates artificial advantages for failed carriers is making me sick.

Yeah, and if the shoe were on the other foot, AA would be there in a heartbeat. You want to blame Ch. 11 for pension dumping, etc., look no further than UA and US...UA essentially wrote the book on how to screw everyone under the sun using the protection of Ch.11...Unlike UA, US, (and seemingly NW), DL has been way too "nice" so far - continuing to pay all bills, and trying every trick in the book to stay out of BK; just look at NW - they technically are some way off from filing but are looking to it now as a quick solution against their union issues...
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting Dbba (Reply 21):
This is a great American story--how little ValuJet and now Air Tran brought down the mighty Delta fortress in Atlanta.

It sounds almost as if you're happy about Delta filing for bankruptcy. Yuck!
War Eagle!
 
keesje
Posts: 8747
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:19 am

I was staggered when Delta reported a loss of $5.2 billion for 2004.

When things didn´t get better this seemed un-avoidable.

My sympathy goes to all who worked hard but will loose their jobs, pensions etc..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 12):
That is the most disgusting comment of the year. That is a very bad comment to make.

Why? He's absolutely right. They are failed, insolvent businesses.

Now I don't agree they should be vaporized. That wouldn't be in the interest of the creditors.

N
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:20 am

There is a distinction that needs to be drawn between being happy that an airline is bankrupt versus simply calling a spade a spade.

Too many of you don't want to see that.
 
nicksair
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 4:43 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 19):
And before you talk about old school or antiquated, get rid of your reel-to-reel collection and all that stuff..

GOOD NIGHT NOW!!!!!
NWR
Nicholas William Reed KSAN/KLAX/KSFO
 
BNAflyer78
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:37 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:21 am

I posted this in another thread, but in related news:

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...14+14-Sep-2005+RTRS&srch=northwest

NW filed as well.
Long live the Widget!
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:22 am

Not good for DL, they are my #2 airline. Hopefully they'll pull through it. Good luck DL!!!!
 
A350
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:40 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:24 am

It's a sad day for aviation, indeed. A few months ago, I was so happy to see Delta here in Berlin, and now Delta who stayed afloat when so many others filed for ch. 11 in the last years, had no choice than to follow. I hope they will find a way out and the employees keep their jobs.

We have many economical problems in Germany, too. I know this is market economy and a company has to make money or to disappear, but it's still sad for all the people who lose their jobs.

A350
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 15):
Since bankruptcy seems to be such a popular and successful option of late, perhaps NW, CO and AA can go to the courthouse together and get some kind of group discount.



Quoting BNAflyer78 (Reply 33):
I posted this in another thread, but in related news:
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...14+14-Sep-2005+RTRS&srch=northwest
NW filed as well.

Well, horse puckey...there goes the group discount.

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
LMP737
Posts: 4810
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:26 am

Good luck to all the Delta employees out there. Hopefully everything will work out for you guys.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 9):
Every one of these airlines should be out of business. Their business models have failed. The companies are no longer solvent.

Well MattD since you seem to have it all figured out why don't you tell us what happens when all these airlines go out of business.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 13438
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting NUair (Reply 16):
My best friend in DC who works for the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) said that they have already received preliminary notice on Delta's pension program.

Preliminary notice as a "heads-up" from the government that DL MAY want to jettison their pensions, or actual preliminary notice FROM DL saying they're actively looking at starting that process?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
stlgph
Posts: 8986
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 12):
That is the most disgusting comment of the year. That is a very bad comment to make.

It's true. The business models are failing.

US Airways
Northwest Airlines
Trans World Airlines
Delta Air Lines
Independence Air
American Trans Air
Pan American
Midway Airlines
Eastern Airlines
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 9):
It's that antiquated, old school mentality that has dragged on at least two decades too long that got the airlines in the mess they are in today.

Two real world business examples that destroy your theory are Continental and America West. Continental filed for Chapter 11 protection twice and, since 1996, went from the joke of the airline industry to the strongest legacy carrier out there. Only American could even come close to challenging them for this title. America West was not a large company when it went into Chapter 11 in the early 1990s. Most people thought they wouldn't survive. They have turned a profit in many quarters since 9/11, one of the few airlines to do so.

So while I do understand your free market concept (I'm for a "survival of the fittest" approach myself) saying that a company should liquidate right away is fuzzy logic.

AAndrew
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:30 am

And before you talk about old school or antiquated, get rid of your reel-to-reel collection and all that stuff.

apples and oranges my friend.
 
VS747SPUR
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:35 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:31 am

Very sad news for Delta. Im not too sure what chapter 11 involves though (I only know the basics). When can Delta exit ch11 ?
Fly DL
 
AAgent
Posts: 540
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 11:41 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 38):
Preliminary notice as a "heads-up" from the government that DL MAY want to jettison their pensions, or actual preliminary notice FROM DL saying they're actively looking at starting that process?

The very fact that Delta has been investigating this as an option would suggest that it's something they are interested in pursuing.

Best Regards,
AAgent
War Eagle!
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting Dbba (Reply 21):
No longer can they be arrogant as their passengers continue to vote with their feet in Atlanta by getting off the train at Terminal C and making a right turn.....This is a great American story--how little ValuJet and now Air Tran brought down the mighty Delta fortress in Atlanta........do not respond in this thread with the other factors as I know them---but one factor was a little airline that figured it all out while Delta missed the opportunity to do so.....we call that TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS!!!

I normally wouldn't respond to something this pathetic, but one thing caught my eye. How little Airtran brought down the Delta fortress in ATL? How passengers get off at Term C?

Let me ask you something. Delta may be in bankruptcy now, but WHO has more flights in ATL than anyone else and can continue to add flights? Who has realized they can't fit any more into ATL and has been forced to look elsewhere? Who has the most market share of ATL, even if not by sheer size but percentage of load factors?

I answer the questions for you:

1. Delta
2. Airtran
3. Delta


Otto
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting AAgent (Reply 20):
Doesn't the whole thing make you nauseous.

Yes, it does. I don't get the Chapter 11 process when it's used for competitive purposes. Although I do think Delta was desperately trying to hold out and not declare bankruptcy 'til the very end.
 
cgnnrw
Posts: 1045
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 3:11 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:39 am

Quoting Matt D (Reply 9):
Every one of these airlines should be out of business. Their business models have failed. The companies are no longer solvent.

I know it would suck for the employees. But everywhere else in the private sector, it's a way of life. And besides, new carriers will spring from the ashes.

Go work there.

And the first thoughts through your head are "what about my seniority or my pension"?

Then YOU ARE PART of the problem.

It's that antiquated, old school mentality that has dragged on at least two decades too long that got the airlines in the mess they are in today.

I don't know you but I don't like you and you are a real jerk. Hmmm, someone works for a company for 30 years and when the company they work for goes bankrupt and they loose ALL their savings idiots like you come up saying things like "tough luck". Your ignorance is soooooooooo f++++++g annoying.

Quoting Matt D (Reply 25):
start socking money under the mattress.

That's a reeealllllly intelligent statement. I don't know what annoys me more your stupidity or ignorance.
A330 man.
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1449
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:41 am

Let me ask you something. Delta may be in bankruptcy now, but WHO has more flights in ATL than anyone else and can continue to add flights? Who has realized they can't fit any more into ATL and has been forced to look elsewhere? Who has the most market share of ATL, even if not by sheer size but percentage of load factors?

Marketshare means absolutely nothing without profits. If Delta had realized this ten years ago, they wouldn't be in the pitiful shape they're in today.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
USairways16BWI
Posts: 921
Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 4:58 am

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:44 am

its a very bad thing...never flown NW, but i did DL once and it was great.
just a question, what will happen to Song? Metrojet was shut down when US came into troubles, will the same thing happen to song?
 
User avatar
Scooter
Posts: 837
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 1999 12:18 pm

Delta Just Filed For Chapter 11!

Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:45 am

Why is everyone trashing MattD for his comments? He speaks the truth, and if you are offended by that...well, you need to toughen up. This is BUSINESS, folks. Survival of the fittest.

This is coming from someone who has been laid off 3 times in the past ten years. There is no such thing as job security anymore.
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing trip reports.

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