apodino
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Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:11 am

I was watching a CNN interview with Richard Branson discussing the problems facing the airline industry and his wish to build oil refineries. One line in his interview got my attention.

Virgin America, which will be starting soon.

Guess that answers that question? Or does it?
 
S12PPL
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:32 am

Interesting. Maybe they're deciding to push forward faster now that DL and NW are in Chapter 11????
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ASFlyer
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:48 am

Virgin America still hasn't got any U.S. financiers that are willing to invest in their airline at this point, and I have to believe that oil prices continuing to rise to record levels isn't going to make that happen anytime soon. I think that Richard Branson is still hoping for it to happen but he would have to change our foriegn ownership laws before he could do ANYTHING soon.
 
searpqx
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:52 am

Quoting Apodino (Thread starter):
Guess that answers that question? Or does it?

Having the ego he has, I doubt he'd say anything else. The telling thing was and still is that nothing has been filed with DOT or the FAA and no facilities have been acquired (that I'm aware of).
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
1MillionFlyer
Posts: 1937
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 2):
Virgin America still hasn't got any U.S. financiers that are willing to invest in their airline at this point,

I posted about 6 months ago that GECAS, IFLC and anyone else who has planes being returned by NW or DL as part of BK will happily provide financing in the form of cheap leases to Virgin America.

I think they opened the Office in Burlingame and got a team in place just waiting for this day, like a vulture circling.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
2H4
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:12 pm



From the looks of the job listings on their site, they're still spooling up for a launch:


  • Operations Manager
  • Manager – Crew Scheduling
  • Manager – Guest Services Learning
  • Manager – Cargo Services
  • Database Administrator/Web Developer
  • Junior Accountant
  • Aircraft Inspector
  • Quality Assurance Auditor
  • Team Assistants (3 open positions)
  • Manager – Component & Inventory Maintenance
  • Manager – Tech Ops Control Center
  • Manager – Maintenance Training
  • Manager – Tech Ops Planning & Scheduling
  • Manager – Line & Engine Maintenance
  • Director – Network Planning
  • Chief Information Officer





2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
AirRyan
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:13 pm

But the last thing the US commercial aviation market needs is another airline to clutter it up even more. Load factors are high right now and NW and DL both have to file Ch11 - what does Sir Dick think he's going to do differently? He already choose Airbus so all his aircraft are coming from overseas, so it's not like he's contributing to the US economy by buying Boeing.

Virgin America not only has no market and no need, they have no business in the US right now.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:26 pm

Unless Branson has secretly hedged his fuel costs better than Southwest for the next ten years, he might as well forget it.

Quote:
He already choose Airbus so all his aircraft are coming from overseas, so it's not like he's contributing to the US economy by buying Boeing.

Many U.S. companies produce parts for Airbus planes, and many foreign companies make parts for Boeing. It is the same as buying a Japanese car made in America (Hondas from Ohio, Toyotas from Kentucky), or buying an American car made in Canada (GM) or Mexico (Chrysler).
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1MillionFlyer
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
He already choose Airbus so all his aircraft are coming from overseas, so it's not like he's contributing to the US economy by buying Boeing

NW will be turing in some A319 and A320s I bet, he will help the US ecomony by hiring displaced workers and adding the the M1, M2, and M3 supply, not to mention payroll and income taxes.
Golf Foxtrot you are cleared for departure
 
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scbriml
Posts: 13701
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
He already choose Airbus so all his aircraft are coming from overseas, so it's not like he's contributing to the US economy by buying Boeing.

Your cup is always half-empty isn't it?  sarcastic 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:08 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
From the looks of the job listings on their site, they're still spooling up for a launch:

The sight hasn't changed in six months.

I personally no longer take Sir Dick seriously on Virgin America. For a while, I wondered what he could do. But looking at his record with LCC's being mixed, I just don't see the launch. There is absolutely no news on Virgin America outside of Aerospace Leak here in the USA. No one cares, the investment community is just not interested.

Now, I've enjoyed flying Virgin Atlantic, but that is a different beast.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 7):
Many U.S. companies produce parts for Airbus planes,

For instance, the V2500's for these A320's are 1/3rd Pratt and would be assembled in CT. Last I looked, and I could be wrong, about half of the value of an airbus was US made components. e.g., avionics, hydraulic systems, etc.

Lightsaber
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stirling
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:56 pm

I can't help but agree with this:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 4):
anyone else who has planes being returned by NW or DL as part of BK will happily provide financing in the form of cheap leases to Virgin America.
I think they opened the Office in Burlingame and got a team in place just waiting for this day, like a vulture circling.

In business, it's all about being in the right place at the right time.....The events at Northwest and Delta are both worth watching.
It's anybody's ball game now and all bets are off.

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 6):
all his aircraft are coming from overseas, so it's not like he's contributing to the US economy by buying Boeing.

In today's world, if you buy a product from an internationaly traded company, the chances of it coming from the traditional country of it's founding are slim; get ready for a big surprise.

(A friend of mine bragged on and on about how Sweden makes the best cars on earth....I had no choice but to point to the spot on the Moroni sticker which he hadn't noticed at purchase...."Made in the Czech Republic"...so much for "Made in Sweden")
Delete this User
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:33 pm

VA (which coincidently also stands for Virtual Airline, how appropriate  Silly !) is headed by Fred Reid. That alone should give an idea about how well things are proceeding.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1313
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:19 am

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 4):
I posted about 6 months ago that GECAS, IFLC and anyone else who has planes being returned by NW or DL as part of BK will happily provide financing in the form of cheap leases to Virgin America.

They might provide cheap leases, but unless they are willing to front cold hard cash they don't count. As far as your statement goes, anyone is likely to get some cheap airplane leases once NWA and DAL start turning in some leased planes.

Virgin America is a flash in the pan idea that didn't pan out and most likely never will. At another time, it might well have come to fruition. They should have beat Jet Blue to the punch. Man, talk about getting in under the wire, Jet Blue had some good luck.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
From the looks of the job listings on their site, they're still spooling up for a launch:




Operations Manager

Manager – Crew Scheduling

Manager – Guest Services Learning

Manager – Cargo Services

Database Administrator/Web Developer

Junior Accountant

Aircraft Inspector

Quality Assurance Auditor

Team Assistants (3 open positions)

Manager – Component & Inventory Maintenance

Manager – Tech Ops Control Center

Manager – Maintenance Training

Manager – Tech Ops Planning & Scheduling

Manager – Line & Engine Maintenance

Director – Network Planning

Chief Information Officer

That same information has been there for months now.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:31 am

No, it was updated on Sept. 8. Some of these jobs are new.
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ASFlyer
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Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:44 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 14):
No, it was updated on Sept. 8. Some of these jobs are new.

Very few of them are new. They've been advertising for the same management positions forever.

Just because they have a website and are looking for employees doesn't mean they are close to becoming reality. I've seen virtual airlines advertising for employees as well.
 
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viasa
Posts: 1452
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:18 am

The first two Virgin America A320 would be c/n 2616 and 2674.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:24 am

Quoting Viasa (Reply 16):
The first two Virgin America A320 would be c/n 2616 and 2674.

And we know this because?

Spill!
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Lono
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:39 am

I agree this would be a good time to pick some of the pieces DL and NW may drop.... and take advantage of the weakened customer loyalty at AS.... the LCC can make it on $70 oil.... they have a different game plan.... I think this is the other shoe to drop so to speak as we watch the industry change...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
ASFlyer
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting Lono (Reply 18):
I agree this would be a good time to pick some of the pieces DL and NW may drop.... and take advantage of the weakened customer loyalty at AS.... the LCC can make it on $70 oil.... they have a different game plan.... I think this is the other shoe to drop so to speak as we watch the industry change...

The problem they are having has nothing to do with cheap airplane leases. They have their airplanes already lined up by way of a sweet deal with Airbus. They need financing. U.S. financing. Nobody wants to give them any because this isn't exactly a great time to invest in an airline, apparently not even with a name like Virgin.

By the way, exactly what pieces are NW and DL going to drop? With few exceptions, any airline can fly to any commercial airport in the U.S. - they aren't going to pick up any "routes" since there is really no such thing. They might pick up some employees that were furloughed, but there's no shortage of applicants already. The ONLY thing that I can see that anyone could pick up out of the NW/DL bankruptcy would be airplane leases, but this is a buyers market already. There are lots of planes sitting around in the desert, just waiting to be leased or purchased at extremely attractive rates.
 
Lono
Posts: 1136
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:31 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 19):
By the way, exactly what pieces are NW and DL going to drop?

Customers

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 19):
Nobody wants to give them any because this isn't exactly a great time to invest in an airline, apparently not even with a name like Virgin

There is a lot of money out there and there are some people who can afford to loose some in order to play "Airline"....I don't think Sir Richard would mention it if something was not in the works..... The "Virgin" name is exciting.... and Americans like exciting... strange things have happened in this business as of late... and the timing is right for something strange to happen... It is a new world out there and new things will be tried and old things lost....
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
Meafly
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:15 am

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:46 am

I don't think Branson and Virgin are all that exciting to Americans, as evidenced by the dismal failure of "The Rebel Billionaire" on Fox television.
 
hz747300
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:38 pm

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:01 am

I did a Google search to see how much of Airbus components are made in America. What I found were a bunch of press releases from companies in America discussing contracts their companies had signed to be suppliers to Airbus. There was enough to make me feel like that 30-40% of Airbus assembled from products made in America, but not quite the 50-55% that Airbus claims.

That said - the planes are on order and should be showing up soon, right?

Quoting Meafly (Reply 21):
I don't think Branson and Virgin are all that exciting to Americans, as evidenced by the dismal failure of "The Rebel Billionaire" on Fox television.

Um, did you see the show? Americans like order and rules in their reality TV programs. That's why the show with Mark Cuban also failed. Donald Trump's show worked because there was a sense of order in how it was conducted.
Keep on truckin'...
 
Meafly
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:15 am

RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:06 am

Nah, Branson just doesn't fly in the States, he does okay flying to the States, though.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Virgin America May Start Soon?

Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:22 am

Virgin America's business plan was predicated almost entirely on entering a void created by a UA shutdown - heavy operations at SFO, cheap leases on A320s, etc.

Since UA has managed to stick around like a bad penny, that plan won't work - and as others have mentioned, no one is willing to invest in yet another startup airline right now.

If I had a farm to bet, I'd wager they never place a single plane in the air.
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